becks
Member's not posted much yet
Posts: 8
|
Post by becks on Aug 15, 2013 7:50:14 GMT
Hi, I'm brand new to this forum so go easy on me My partner of 5 months and I are having some difficulties in our relationship currently. My partner suffers with ADHD and has since pre-teens (she's 22 now) and doesn't offer this up freely. Besides myself, I believe 2-3 other people know. My partner is different from anyone else I've ever dated - she's very un-needy, which is fine, it just takes time to adapt. On good days, things are amazing. On a bad day however, we both struggle. We both have tempers and are pretty upfront kind of people but I find myself trying to pacify any mood she might have. I don't doubt that she loves and cares for me but in the heat of things, she often ends the relationship. This is her first serious relationship and she's raised buying a house together which is our current aim. I'm not sure I can cope with being single every other day so what I'm really asking for is a coping mechanism or something that can help us both. I've tried walking away, I've tried talking our issues out and it always results in the same thing and ultimately, we can't continue in this way. She gets frustrated and I get upset. We both feel the relationship is worth working at and have agreed a period of space at the minute. If anyone with ADHD or a partner of someone with ADHD can intervene, I'd be so grateful. I've read a lot of information about ADHD and am trying to understand but if someone could help in this context, I'd be so grateful. Thanks in advance.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 15, 2013 22:29:07 GMT
How sure are you that she's not needy? I think there might be more than a few ADHDers that like to kid themselves that they don't 'need' anyone that then get scared at how emotionally vulnerable they have become, possibly. Depending on her personality you might want to try reinforcing to her that people who love each other do not end relationships on a whim. Alternatively, set about trivialising and even mocking the concept that one would end a relationship in the heat of the moment. Only do this when you're on good terms with each other and get her to buy in to the mocking too. Whichever one fits best for her, you're going to have to make a habit of indefinitely. Ultimately, it's a maturity thing but you might be able to speed it up by nullifying any faux strength she derives from it or heading her off at the pass when you sense it coming
|
|
|
Post by Kathymel on Aug 15, 2013 22:40:48 GMT
I read something about this recently. Not sure if it will help ...
"People with ADHD nervous systems ALWAYS have an intense, almost catastrophic emotional response to the perception that someone has withdrawn their love, approval, or respect and non-ADHD folks NEVER do (or at least not to the disruptive extent that ADHD people do)."
Someone can be independent and self-reliant but still have a deep seated need for approval.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 16, 2013 3:12:21 GMT
I read something about this recently. Not sure if it will help ... "People with ADHD nervous systems ALWAYS have an intense, almost catastrophic emotional response to the perception that someone has withdrawn their love, approval, or respect and non-ADHD folks NEVER do (or at least not to the disruptive extent that ADHD people do)." Someone can be independent and self-reliant but still have a deep seated need for approval. This ^^ John
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 16, 2013 9:22:44 GMT
I read something about this recently. Not sure if it will help ... "People with ADHD nervous systems ALWAYS have an intense, almost catastrophic emotional response to the perception that someone has withdrawn their love, approval, or respect and non-ADHD folks NEVER do (or at least not to the disruptive extent that ADHD people do)." Someone can be independent and self-reliant but still have a deep seated need for approval. Bang on that init? Not that we'd ever admit it of course I'd like to read the rest of that article... you got a linky?
|
|
becks
Member's not posted much yet
Posts: 8
|
Post by becks on Aug 16, 2013 10:47:29 GMT
Thank you so much, everyone.
In response to your question Michael, good point - I'm not so sure. As much as I read, I don't want to typify or generalise an ADHDer, however, I'm torn between the un-needy approach and the 'still have a deep seated need for approval' line with her. She learned to be independent from a very young age due to a broken home which sadly, I do feel has left a mark. Her 'neediness' is pretty hit and miss. Sometimes, she'll sit down next to me and the next she'll have puppy dog eyes and be in cuddle mode - I'm certainly always kept on my toes! Unintentionally, she makes remarks to me that cut and leave a mark, without meaning to offend and when I've raised this, her response is pretty blazé and she tells me off for being overly sensitive and not having a sense of humour. In contrast, when I'm honest and I try to raise the idea of combining and figuring a way to combat her comments and my reactions, she becomes super-defensive and suggests I'm calling her a 'nutter'.
I'm also curious, do other ADHDers find they 'read/listen for gist'? Even if I'm pretty explicit and detailed in what I say, my partner tries to read between the lines. I wonder if this is common.
Thanks again for all the help thus far; it actually feels therapeutic to be able to talk with people who understand.
NB. I actually have a cracking sense of humour.
|
|
|
Post by JJ on Aug 16, 2013 16:29:03 GMT
All the stuff in this thread makes me feel a bit uncomfortable...
I agree completely with everything in the replies about adhd and emotions etc and adhd does help explain your partner's behaviour....But equally, coming from a broken home could also explain the same... A less than ideal childhood shapes your automatic reactions in a relationship and distorts your view of what's normal or acceptable. Mix adhd into that and everything is magnified again....
What makes me uncomfortable is the thought that becks might go away thinking this is just how it should be, her partner has no real responsibility in this - adhd is the problem and that's it, nothing can be done and everything has to be accepted.
And I don't agree with that. What unsettles me is the attempts to try and find a way of dealing with things is met by super-defensiveness and accusations, when becks says she's been hurt by something she's told to stop being sensitive and really unsettling is the ending the relationship every other day.
None of these things are ok and all of them are damaging and corrosive - to the relationship and to becks' eventual emotional /mental health. Adhd doesn't change this. Yes we can all be insensitive - but when it's pointed out, we can all feel bad and apologise, we can also try to learn and not do the same thing again... This might take a while or might never be 100% achieved, but treating someone else's feelings with such little respect can't be excused with adhd and in fact isn't just an adhd thing.
I had a relationship where I would regularly end it - I didn't even think that much of what I was saying - I got angry and I said it.... Then he spoke to me one day and said I couldn't keep saying that, it was really hurtful and it was very unfair.. He also said if I said it again, he wouldn't come back.. I listened to him and felt terrible I'd made someone feel so bad - and the next time, even though I felt like saying it, I didn't....and I never did afterwards . Adhd makes controlling your impulses and your temper much harder, but it's not impossible - not for something really important.
I was also in a relationship where (another) he would regularly leave - it was just appalling for me - v emotionally abusive and controlling behaviour - and each time I let him back, I was implicitly accepting it - so he didn't change and I, and the relationship, got more damaged - it took a long long time to heal from the destruction it caused to my self esteem and mental health.
Part of the problems in my relationships was that I had a dysfunctional childhood, so I had no template as to what behaviour was ok - to do or accept. Another part of the problem was adhd ( the 'hit and miss' thing you talk about - her wanting closeness unpredictably - was def a cause of many arguments for me) - but just cos adhd causes problems, doesn't mean the adhd'er can't listen, explain, treat their partner's views with respect and try to work on a way around things so that no one's emotions are everywhere not knowing where they stand.
I'm not dismissing adhd at all, but I think the issues are more than adhd.... Relate are very good - made a huge difference to me - would recommend xxx
|
|
|
Post by supine on Aug 16, 2013 17:59:41 GMT
I have ADHD, and I think my wife probably has it (or something similar) so I can really empathise with you. When my wife goes totally overboard, I usually resort to telling her to shut her cakehole in the most nasty spiteful way possible. She can't but help finding this hilarious and proceeds to spend 20 minutes in fits of giggles - row over I can't say if this would work for you, but it seems as I'm normally quite placid, turning into a nasty spiteful *wat seems to tickle her funny bone...go figure.
|
|
|
Post by Kathymel on Aug 16, 2013 18:56:12 GMT
I read something about this recently. Not sure if it will help ... "People with ADHD nervous systems ALWAYS have an intense, almost catastrophic emotional response to the perception that someone has withdrawn their love, approval, or respect and non-ADHD folks NEVER do (or at least not to the disruptive extent that ADHD people do)." Someone can be independent and self-reliant but still have a deep seated need for approval. Bang on that init? Not that we'd ever admit it of course I'd like to read the rest of that article... you got a linky? Here's the link, Michael How do I know I have ADHD?I saw this from following a link someone posted a couple of days ago, but I can't remember who or where. I wrote to the site but no reply so far ...
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 16, 2013 22:36:32 GMT
I have ADHD, and I think my wife probably has it (or something similar) so I can really empathise with you. When my wife goes totally overboard, I usually resort to telling her to shut her cakehole in the most nasty spiteful way possible. She can't but help finding this hilarious and proceeds to spend 20 minutes in fits of giggles - row over I can't say if this would work for you, but it seems as I'm normally quite placid, turning into a nasty spiteful *wat seems to tickle her funny bone...go figure. "Bitch, please, you must have a mental disease!"
|
|
|
Post by supine on Aug 16, 2013 23:10:33 GMT
"Bitch, please, you must have a mental disease!" Unfortunately she can throw this one back in my face now, so no more calling her mental She did remind of one I used a few weeks back that she started laughing about again though.. "Shut your ****ing mouth you fat ***t" Still, it's either that or I would have to punch her in the mouth to shut her up, and I don't think I fancy being poisoned or knifed in my sleep
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 17, 2013 4:19:05 GMT
So, This morning I've been reading up on rejection sensitive dysphoria. www.dodsonadhdcenter.com/rejection-sensitive-dysphoria/www.additudemag.com/adhd/article/10121.htmlIt puts into words how I feel during day to day life, almost every day. The symptoms may be lessened by taking Intuniv or Clonidine, so I'll discuss this with my psychiatrist when I see him next. It's something I never really knew was directly linked to ADHD before. I'll no doubt keep everyone posted if it actually works. John
|
|
|
Post by cheekybuddha on Aug 17, 2013 7:48:49 GMT
I posted about rejection sensitivity with link to Dodson centre recently Kathymel, maybe it was that our referring too?
Interesting to see so many people agree with the trait, I was interested as its not a mainstream symptom at mo, but we all have it!
|
|
|
Post by Kathymel on Aug 17, 2013 11:12:30 GMT
Ah, I'm glad you've said that, CheekB. I didn't like to post it without crediting the person who first posted it. It's been very useful information and has gone into the novel I am writing to the know-nothing NHS psych who refused to refer me.
|
|
|
Post by cheekybuddha on Aug 17, 2013 11:35:58 GMT
Wow let them have it girlfriend, arrogant know it all mental health professionals are parasitic and cruel, they lap up the team gossip, free biscuits and kudos but live in their own tightly constructed deluded nests of outdated knowledge and corrupt power over vulnerable people in need. Lowest of the low
I'm not bitter lol but I was a mental health nurse for seven years so I know I'm talking the truth
|
|
|
Post by cheekybuddha on Aug 17, 2013 11:36:22 GMT
Ps glad you found it helpful I certainly did too xx
|
|
|
Post by Kathymel on Aug 17, 2013 11:37:51 GMT
When I did my CBT course several years ago, one of the tasks was to spend a week practicing how to accept criticism. You had to try a different method every day. The last one was thanking the person for their criticism. This seemed so utterly absurd and impossible to me that the only way I could do it was to make it into a joke. I told my friend and we spent some time formally thanking each other for criticisms. She would say something like, 'This tea's a bit weak for me.' and I would respond with, 'Thank you for pointing that out, J. It will enable me to provide you with a more satisfying tea experience in the future and aid my progression in tea making.' When one of the people at work the next day tentatively made a comment about something I'd done wrong, I couldn't stop laughing. The look on their face was priceless. I didn't manage to thank them, though.
|
|
|
Post by NM on Sept 20, 2013 11:22:27 GMT
All the stuff in this thread makes me feel a bit uncomfortable... I agree completely with everything in the replies about adhd and emotions etc and adhd does help explain your partner's behaviour....But equally, coming from a broken home could also explain the same... A less than ideal childhood shapes your automatic reactions in a relationship and distorts your view of what's normal or acceptable. Mix adhd into that and everything is magnified again.... What makes me uncomfortable is the thought that becks might go away thinking this is just how it should be, her partner has no real responsibility in this - adhd is the problem and that's it, nothing can be done and everything has to be accepted. And I don't agree with that. What unsettles me is the attempts to try and find a way of dealing with things is met by super-defensiveness and accusations, when becks says she's been hurt by something she's told to stop being sensitive and really unsettling is the ending the relationship every other day. None of these things are ok and all of them are damaging and corrosive - to the relationship and to becks' eventual emotional /mental health. Adhd doesn't change this. Yes we can all be insensitive - but when it's pointed out, we can all feel bad and apologise, we can also try to learn and not do the same thing again... This might take a while or might never be 100% achieved, but treating someone else's feelings with such little respect can't be excused with adhd and in fact isn't just an adhd thing. I had a relationship where I would regularly end it - I didn't even think that much of what I was saying - I got angry and I said it.... Then he spoke to me one day and said I couldn't keep saying that, it was really hurtful and it was very unfair.. He also said if I said it again, he wouldn't come back.. I listened to him and felt terrible I'd made someone feel so bad - and the next time, even though I felt like saying it, I didn't....and I never did afterwards . Adhd makes controlling your impulses and your temper much harder, but it's not impossible - not for something really important. I was also in a relationship where (another) he would regularly leave - it was just appalling for me - v emotionally abusive and controlling behaviour - and each time I let him back, I was implicitly accepting it - so he didn't change and I, and the relationship, got more damaged - it took a long long time to heal from the destruction it caused to my self esteem and mental health. Part of the problems in my relationships was that I had a dysfunctional childhood, so I had no template as to what behaviour was ok - to do or accept. Another part of the problem was adhd ( the 'hit and miss' thing you talk about - her wanting closeness unpredictably - was def a cause of many arguments for me) - but just cos adhd causes problems, doesn't mean the adhd'er can't listen, explain, treat their partner's views with respect and try to work on a way around things so that no one's emotions are everywhere not knowing where they stand. I'm not dismissing adhd at all, but I think the issues are more than adhd.... Relate are very good - made a huge difference to me - would recommend xxx Thanks for this JJ. My boyfriend who has ADD split up with me yesterday. I'm heartbroken but I know it's the right thing. It's been two years of a very rocky relationship and he has broken up with me countless, countless times. Usually, over the smallest of things I've done to annoy him - his over reactions and aggression generally left me speechless. I had never experienced these emotionally abusive comments by anyone else and hopefully never will again. I feel like my confidence has been stripped because he was consistently making me feel like a bad person. I'm not perfect at all, but I'm certainly not evil or horrible. He's walked out on me in pubs, restaurants, on trains, in villages, dark streets and also the flat we shared. Even though I was left feeling extremely hurt and confused by his over the top emotional reactions, he would snap out of it the next day or week and it always just seemed to get swept under the rug. I looked the other way and forgave him because I kept thinking it would get better and I loved him. Now after his latest incredible blow up, he's packed his things and left for good telling me that it was up to me to manage his ADD symptoms and make him feel better. How bloody unfair. I knew from the beginning how incredibly focused he has always been on himself and his own feelings. He did tell me several times he lacked the ability to feel empathy for people, which I didn't think was true but now I do. He's truly never quite understood how his hurtful actions made me feel. And him telling me that his ADD symptoms needed to be managed by me just made me angry. As someone who is not qualified or trained to do this, I was at a lost. Nothing I did seemed right. I asked him to take advantage of the free therapy and support offered by the NHS to learn techniques to try and self-manage. Of course, I would have supported him and learned what I could do to help. In fact, we should have attended couple support groups together but whenever I brought it up he would swiftly suggest I get help myself for my own problems. We did try couples therapy but it wasn't geared towards one partner having ADD so it wasn't as meaningful or helpful. Unlike some people with ADD, he is incredibly structured (needs to be), organised, punctual. And when he is in a good mood, I absolutely adored how loving he could be. But once he was diagnosed and started medication he expected all his symptoms to magically disappear. When they didn't (how could they), he grew more and more frustrated and angry. By the end, his black mood swings, aggression and anger were so close to the surface it was like I was treading on egg shells every day. Not a great place to be. I can take my fair share of the blame for the breakdown of our relationship, but I truly feel if he had learned some techniques and taken it upon himself to start to manage his symptoms even a little, things could have been a lot different.
|
|
|
Post by contrarymary on Sept 20, 2013 13:12:22 GMT
hey NM and welcome
I'm so sorry about your ex-boyfriend; he sounds like a complete nightmare and you are so lucky to be out of the relationship. However you feel now, you will heal and you will grow to know better, and be better suited to a nicer human being and happier.
It seems to me that he has been at best unkind and uncaring and that has nothing to do with ADHD. Failure to empathise is not an ADHD trait - failure to notice that we have done or said something which has hurt the other person is a trait, but once noticed it is characteristic to blame ourselves, not the person we are supposed to care about! I'm only too aware at how often i blow up, but it is over in minutes or at most an hour or two, not days or weeks.
I wonder whether your ex-boyfriend is extremely challenged and frustrated and is unable to tolerate the symptoms of adhd, or has not yet been fully diagnosed, or is simply unable to be in a healthy relationship. There is no place for the behaviour you describe in any healthy relationship and you are well off out of it.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 20, 2013 15:41:16 GMT
NM, your experience sounds pretty bad. I hope you find someone a bit less mental next time. Luckily, you know all the signs now Unfortunately, I heard almost the exact same comments from my ex. I don't believe I'm a terrible person but who knows I would like to share some of my thoughts on some of your points below. This isn't to say 'omg, this is what you did wrong!' but more to highlight some of the thinking that *may* have been behind his bizarre behaviour. Also, the more you know about this sort of thing, the better you may cope with it or more quickly identify and cut loose in future. This isn't black and white and is so difficult to explain it can be easier to dish out this line. In short, extreme stress = withdrawal. Did he also tell you about his ADD up front? Did you dismiss it by any chance? This was him possibly asking for support, albeit in the worst possible way I'm told I exude an air of confidence but really I'm a special snowflake. Was he similar? Here's the problem... When we look at 'strong' people, we don't see people in need of help, so we don't help them. Even if the lips are moving and the body is doing things which we would normally associate with 'I need your help' - like constantly running off leaving you stranded in remote places (which is an extremely cunty of him). Some of us (you girlies) may only be attracted to these 'strong persona' types so that becomes your core belief going into a relationship, possibly. It may even be true 50% of the time, 90% of the time or 10% of the time but when the special snowflake side comes out and he needs your utter devotion and understanding, I think this is possibly where the problem occurs. Some girls do not want to see this side and they refuse to acknowledge it but when you ignore it, it inflames us. We (the ADHD bloke) are still the real problem because we don't want to have to say we need help either because on top of ADHD we probably have a dozen other issues going on that we are ignoring too We want to believe we are King of the Jungle and just want you to magically read our minds and ruffle the mane occasionally! I'd be interested in your thoughts of my thoughts If I am totally wrong, I might have to go back to the drawing board on this one and just write 'beyond help' next to my name
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 20, 2013 19:57:22 GMT
Unfortunately, I heard almost the exact same comments from my ex. I don't believe I'm a terrible person but who knows I behaved in much the same way in one of my relationships. I am most definitely NOT a terrible person. Neither is the ex who provoked my damaging behaviour. He had issues, which led to some behaviour that pushes my buttons like nothing else on earth. I reacted. He got worse. I reacted even more. He got even worse. We bounced off each other and ended up in an emotionally abusive, miserable, toxic relationship. With regards to my own relationship - both JJ and Michael are right - my ex and I both had horrendous upbringings - we both needed a bit of patience and understanding from each other, but neither could give it, because sadly, we both pushed those buttons created by our crappy childhoods, so we were both almost constantly too wound up to think about each other's feelings.
|
|
|
Post by manson88 on Sept 21, 2013 5:59:54 GMT
Wow let them have it girlfriend, arrogant know it all mental health professionals are parasitic and cruel, they lap up the team gossip, free biscuits and kudos but live in their own tightly constructed deluded nests of outdated knowledge and corrupt power over vulnerable people in need. Lowest of the low I'm not bitter lol but I was a mental health nurse for seven years so I know I'm talking the truth I think this is so true love the quote Sent from my GT-I9300 using proboards
|
|
|
Post by NM on Sept 27, 2013 14:54:49 GMT
I wonder whether your ex-boyfriend is extremely challenged and frustrated and is unable to tolerate the symptoms of adhd, or has not yet been fully diagnosed, or is simply unable to be in a healthy relationship. This isn't black and white and is so difficult to explain it can be easier to dish out this line. In short, extreme stress = withdrawal. Did he also tell you about his ADD up front? Did you dismiss it by any chance? This was him possibly asking for support, albeit in the worst possible way :P Some of us (you girlies) may only be attracted to these 'strong persona' types so that becomes your core belief going into a relationship, possibly. It may even be true 50% of the time, 90% of the time or 10% of the time but when the special snowflake side comes out and he needs your utter devotion and understanding, I think this is possibly where the problem occurs. Some girls do not want to see this side and they refuse to acknowledge it but when you ignore it, it inflames us. Wow! Thanks to all of you for your responses to my post. I haven't popped back on for a few days. So this note is delayed. It was good to see all your insights and thoughts. Michael and ContraryMary you've given me many things to consider. ContraryMary, to answer your question, he has been fully diagnosed with ADD and is trying new prescriptions. However, where I think he needs to focus is on learning techniques to help manage some of his symptoms better. I don't think there is a magic pill that will do that for him. And I couldn't do it for him either. But I would have supported him in any way I could. Michael, you may have a point about stress = withdrawal and him hiding behind that "empathy" remark. And he didn't tell me about his ADD upfront because he didn't get diagnosed until a year ago upon a suggestion made by a friend of mine. Once he was diagnosed, he was quite okay to say things like "I've got ADD, I'm special. And I like the way I am. So you need to deal with it and manage my feelings to make me feel better." ...... That was a little challenging. I also take on board your comment about the understanding. Although he is a very strong personality, he is quite needy. He can get very jealous or swing from a good mood to a black mood quite quickly. I didn't need him to be the strong silent type, I just needed him to see that I was trying. But sometimes people just need a little bit of extra help so that they don't end up frustrated with each other. Because when you're at that point, it's ripe for a communication break down. Thanks again for your responses, it helps to hear all different perspectives. If anyone knows of some good support groups in London, I'd be very grateful.
|
|
|
Post by JJ on Sept 28, 2013 0:33:42 GMT
Support groups for what NM? Having read your post (s), my view is that you're so much better away from him - any relationship that involves 'walking on egg shells' is toxic, as are ones where you're made to feel a bad person and you describe arguments using phrases like 'emotionally abusive' - all very very unhealthy - it's no way to live - and no person has a right to make someone else feel like that. If you're feeling in that place, I'd really recommend a book called 'Men who hate women and the women who love them' by Dr Susan Forward. Despite its terrible title, it's actually a serious book on dysfunctional relationships and the people in them. I found it very helpful - for understanding, healing and not making the same mistakes in partner choices again. If you do read it sometime, I'd be interested to hear your thoughts after
|
|
|
Post by jan on Sept 28, 2013 18:17:31 GMT
don't know of any for partners of adhd ers but there is one for him and don't see why you couldn't come along - other peoples partners have been there when i've been sometimes its once a month on the first tuesday of the month - next one is next tuesday costa coffee shop argyle street oxford circus 2 min around corner from oxford circus tube st (think its exit 6 but can't rem now ) have had my fair share of abusive relationships -though long time ago now - i'l be there if you wanna chat - - you can come on your own even.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 1, 2013 14:48:22 GMT
Having read your post (s), my view is that you're so much better away from him - any relationship that involves 'walking on egg shells' is toxic, as are ones where you're made to feel a bad person and you describe arguments using phrases like 'emotionally abusive' - all very very unhealthy - it's no way to live - and no person has a right to make someone else feel like that. If you're feeling in that place, I'd really recommend a book called 'Men who hate women and the women who love them' by Dr Susan Forward. Despite its terrible title, it's actually a serious book on dysfunctional relationships and the people in them. I found it very helpful - for understanding, healing and not making the same mistakes in partner choices again. I found this book really helpful too. I've been thinking about starting a self-help book thread - although not directly about ADHD - I've read quite a few books about relationship difficulties etc, that others might find useful.
|
|
|
Post by JJ on Oct 1, 2013 22:38:47 GMT
Hi @dizzynerd, yes, I've read several really good ones too - I'd have to search them out if you made a thread
|
|