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Post by JJ on Nov 17, 2015 20:39:35 GMT
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Post by shiveringsky on Nov 18, 2015 13:12:47 GMT
New headline:
98% of Politicians are just terrorists with hefty paycheques.
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Post by tati on Nov 18, 2015 13:42:27 GMT
I'm speechless.
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ananse
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Post by ananse on Nov 18, 2015 21:36:16 GMT
Okay... I always seems to be the devils lawyer... I read what he'd said and honestly - I wasn't the least offended. I'm no terrorist. And when it comes to the actual terrorists, is it wrong to assume that quite a few of them do have ADHD? We do tend to get lost in life, about a half of the people in prison and forensic psychiatry have some kind of NP condition. And we tend to have problems with drugs and other things. Work, relations, etc.
However, we're born this way and I wouldn't say it's our fault. Society has failed. Now isn't that what the Danish guy is saying too? We need to ask ourselves what went wrong to know how to stop it from happening again. Our frustration needs to be taken seriously as well as our creativity.
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Post by hermanli on Nov 19, 2015 0:32:10 GMT
I am very familiar with the type of people and mindsets that become aggressive/violent extremists (in the islamist sense)
I can unequivocally say there is no correlation of ADHD amongst them, I'd actually say that ADHDers are significantly under represented amongst these groups.
And don't suggest autism either, Islamic terrorism or simply pushy intolerant evangelical types are all about GROUPS. Large ones who all think the same, don't have abbereant individualistic opinions, they have mob mentality and the nature of islam and rituals clashes quite badly with ADHD traits.
Those white European/American lone wolf type terrorists however, they may well come out of the ugly side of the asperger tree. It's very very different from the islamist phenomenon.
The islamist phenomenon is mainstream thinking/mindsets. Equivalent to most common mindsets, especially those perpetuated by TV and govt - in UK &USA.
The kind of person who would become an islamist terrorist/combatant is the same kind that would join the us military.
People like barack Obama, David Cameron and Vladimir Putin are all equally has heartless and savage as people who direct daesh or those referred to as al Qaeda.
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ananse
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Post by ananse on Nov 19, 2015 9:24:30 GMT
I too believe that the people who join extremist groups are the same kind who would join the military. I once did military service and some officers seemed to be on the coocoo-spectrum and I've had the impression that the few of us who's been in the military seem to enjoy it. I did not enjoy it though... I also found some white supremacy page and many of the users were open with their NP-diagnosis.
Would white christian terrorist be of other personality types than eastern muslim ones? Like here it's obsessed individualists while over there it's more like a mass-psychotic thing?
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Post by tati on Nov 19, 2015 10:21:35 GMT
Ananse: As you show with your own answer, ADHD often gives the ability of seeing many points of view and "think outside the box". This makes very unlikely that we can become terrorists or members of some fundamentalist organization.
As for the words of our Danish friend, I also think that he probably did not mean to harm, but apart from being total nonsense, his intervention will be read by the majority of people like "ADHD people are dangerous!!! they are potential terrorists!!!". It will not do any good.
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ananse
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Post by ananse on Nov 19, 2015 12:40:38 GMT
I think we may be attracted to subcultures but we usually won't feel comfortable with them for very long.
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Post by hermanli on Nov 21, 2015 0:53:31 GMT
I dont have time to post properly right now, but this whole topic is dearly important to me! Here is a representation of current British mainstream thinking to help you understand how the minds of the masses work;  Remember the EU and the ethics/ideals behind the concept was in direct response to the horrific atrocity of WWII; a horror which was actually just the masses following their innate mob minded, selfish, irrational/non critical, prejudiced, scapegoating inclinations. At such a time, with so much of Europe in ruin - they were perhaps forced to listen to the more intelligent/free/critical thinking minority and agree that freedom, equality, unity etc... were a better way to go about organising our society. But how easily can the masses slip into displaying the utter selfish, ugliest, shameful side of humanity - and be manipulated into working against even their own best interests (i.e divide and conquer, prisoners dilemma and all kinds of fallacious scapegoating)?, You can see it as much in people using violence in Black friday sales (to buy things that they dont need or truly want) as their political opinions. We are now at a point when things have truly come full circle. The masses are turning against every ideal behind the EU, with political powers and media pulling their puppet strings. Its really shameful that the UK is one of the quickest to fall. And that the NHS too (something which also came out of revolutionary post-war idealism) is also being dismantled and strangled to obliteration with no fucks given by almost everyone. Its Sad. Relevant reading: www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/0143039881?refRID=M78TKY649P78HTS7DFFA&ref_=pd_ybh_a_1(that I havent read because my ADHD is too severe - lol) |
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Post by hermanli on Nov 21, 2015 1:15:58 GMT
Would white christian terrorist be of other personality types than eastern muslim ones? Like here it's obsessed individualists while over there it's more like a mass-psychotic thing? Ill write more another time, but kind of. White the white christian thing, you have to remember that the western world (in particular northern Europe) is very secular, and even those who claim to be Christians follow a very watered down version. So a Christian terrorist would have an very niche/unusual and extreme mindset, something which is no doubt perpetuated by isolation, obsession, disproportionate anger when things do not go their way, a lack of empathy and "live and let live" attitude. This all resonates with Asperger Syndrome. It is also extremely significant, that this type of person is not copying the people around them, it is not peer pressure/mirroring/fitting in, it is not following authority - its quite the opposite. They develop and act upon abberant views of their own creation or inspired by a niche source of interest (like white supremacism and odinism for Anders Breivik maybe). It may also be related to schizotypal personality disorder, schizophrenia and such. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 21, 2015 22:29:14 GMT
I too believe that the people who join extremist groups are the same kind who would join the military. I once did military service and some officers seemed to be on the coocoo-spectrum and I've had the impression that the few of us who's been in the military seem to enjoy it. I did not enjoy it though... I also found some white supremacy page and many of the users were open with their NP-diagnosis. Would white christian terrorist be of other personality types than eastern muslim ones? Like here it's obsessed individualists while over there it's more like a mass-psychotic thing? I'd dispute that last part. I'd also recommend a little more restraint in the postings. |
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ananse
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Post by ananse on Nov 22, 2015 11:19:21 GMT
It was a question, not a statement.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 22, 2015 12:43:58 GMT
The world isn't split neatly into "white christian" and "eastern muslim" and so the question itself seems very loaded with your own bias ananse. I am finding this thread very uncomfortable to read. I think we are on very shaky ground when we start making assertions about people based on generalisations about religion or ethnicity or psychiatric diagnoses. |
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ananse
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Post by ananse on Nov 22, 2015 15:49:33 GMT
It's not my personal view, it how the world seems to stigmatize itself. I know that Christianiy is an Arabic religion, but on our side it seems to be identified as European. Also Islam and Judaism like Christianity has moved far beyond the Arab world.
I personally make no difference between religions or ideologies for that matter. It's all superstition and opposed to science.
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Post by hermanli on Nov 22, 2015 16:04:06 GMT
In terms of science, I know medical science at least is almost on a level with superstition. Seems like the majority of conditions, their aetiology and mechanism behind how treatments work is completely unknown. Things are just found to work, and if the incidence of things going wrong is low enough. It will enter "scripture" / practice.
You could see a lot of religion, especially in the way it is held by modern, intelligent free thinking people - as having evolved to include only the parts that "work" . Believers/practitioners will believe the basis of how it works, is their divine deity/ies - and in their case it is probably this very belief that is the active component.
Their is a lot of similarity. And lets not forget the very nature of reality is still completely unknown too, but it is known that perception governs some of the very foundations of it.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 22, 2015 16:40:40 GMT
It was a question, not a statement. That's not what the rest of us appear to think - from that point the thread has mainly been about that line. I'm afraid you've run into a grammar issue. There is a question mark. But there is no question. There's an unfortunate quirk of the spoken word, known as AQI, and the sentence gives the appearance of using that. Here's an amusing video to help explain it. Like here it's obsessed individualists while over there it's more like a mass-psychotic thing? It would work with a bit of clarification eg It's as if it's ok to be an obsessed individual, in the western world, but when we see the same thing in the middle east we assume it's mass psychosis.I think that's what you meant but, as you can see, it's not actually a question. |
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ananse
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Post by ananse on Nov 22, 2015 18:20:47 GMT
Something like that. Maybe. I guess. But a lot more complicated and messed up, I'm afraid, and I might end up trying to explain the whole marxist scientific tradition...
Any way: My point - if there is a point, I'm speculating and turning the cube - is that there are political structures and that there are masters and servants. Religion and ideology always plays a role in such games, and depending on where you stand in that hierarchy, that role will be very different. I believe it's pretty much irrelevant what particular religion it is, as long as it provides answers to your situation and a way out of it (if you're not satisfied with it).
I have no idea if there are any christian terrorists in the Middle east, but I do know there are a few in the western world. On the other hand we wouldn't expect to see a revolutionary christian mass movement here rising against the establishment. In South America on the other hand there is liberatin theology and on some places hinduism or buddhism are opposed to the political power. In the Middle East, islam has become a revolutionary power, usually aiming towards western imperialism. As far as I can tell, there are no wars between religions, it's all politics.
Now, the relation to CCC (coo-coo conditions...): I'm somewhere on the spectrum myself and I can easily see myself getting attracted to extreme groups under other conditions. Were I somewhat more bruised, somewhat more desperate, somewhat more filled with hatred. The world we live in appears illogical as well as unjust. Trying to find answers in some movement opposed to this world is very logical to me. However, they don't provide me with any answers. It's just the same illogical and conceptual view on reality as the one I see in the official society. At best they can offer an alternative community, a sense of fellowship - at the price of my intellectual integrity.
And at last then - Denmark... I have some knowledge about Danish politics and their view to foreigners and to islam. A Danish politician talking about their public enemy number one without blaming the whole thing on arab culture or islamic tradition - I find that remarkable. And like I said, I wasn't personally offended, because I can imagine some alternative version of myself becoming attracted to extreme movements.
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Post by greenwonderer on Nov 23, 2015 17:10:40 GMT
Not sure there are any words!
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Post by Nutella on Nov 25, 2015 2:26:36 GMT
Interesting! I suppose we should consider asking ourselves what's the definition of a terrorist? What's the definition of elite? Who benefits from giving us bad news about things like terrorism? Have you ever felt humiliated? Have you ever felt the burning desire to help someone else avoid humiliation? It's a volcanic-like eruption that can empower you to do almost anything for the greater good. What's the definition of help? What's the definition of greater good? Civil unrest, I suspect, only ever ignites when one master condition is true. People have nothing left to lose. This almost never happens in the UK. We have East Enders. We have junk food for 10p a kilo. We have family members that are still alive, even if we 'hate' them. On the other side of the world, the governments may not be as well versed as ours at keeping their penniless families amused with trivia. Some have presumably allowed their people to reach the 'nothing left to lose' point. There are probably many neurodiverse subsets that will simply not tolerate being walked over. ADHD might be one of them. There's no need for us to be offended by this. If anything, it should increase budget for mental health care. As always, it takes one to spot one, so the Justice Minister might have some explaining to do himself  I don't watch TV and I avoid the news at all costs. Just like I avoid East Enders! |
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Post by Babble on Nov 25, 2015 10:51:04 GMT
There are words, but none of them nice.
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Post by hermanli on Nov 26, 2015 14:34:05 GMT
Great post Ananse,
im not sure if everyone else is going to 'get' what you are trying to express, I can see how you have gone to some effort to accurately describe some of your own intimate psychology, even though it involves both vulnerability and 'negative' that might ruffle feathers.
With this political detail you threw in: "In the Middle East, islam has become a revolutionary power, usually aiming towards western imperialism"
Im not really sure that is true. The Majority of the middle east is allied with/a product of/under full control of western imperialism and has been for a very long time. I cannot think of any particular islamic led uprisings against that, at least in no direct way.
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Post by computermandan on Nov 26, 2015 16:42:43 GMT
Not being funny but I think I'd make a rubbish terrorist...
"Ooops - yes mister terror boss, I promise I will remember to set the timer for the next one"
I know I make light of a terrible subject. it's the only way I know.
There is no wrong or right IMO. referring to the article though - to suggest an impairment of some kind probably isn't far off the mark, but to narrow it down without any substance to the claim isn't really on.
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Post by petra on Nov 26, 2015 18:08:15 GMT
Not being funny but I think I'd make a rubbish terrorist... "Ooops - yes mister terror boss, I promise I will remember to set the timer for the next one"  |
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shelly438
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Post by shelly438 on Dec 2, 2015 23:38:47 GMT
ADHD and terrorism have no relation. Seriously ? I had to laugh !
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Post by JJ on Dec 3, 2015 11:52:19 GMT
Fucking hell.
I know this isn't a thread about whether voting to bomb Syria was right or wrong, (and it IS wrong) but I was on here and have just seen the news -
1) we've dropped the first bomb already - so around the 12 hour mark or sooner (this is the first news I've seen today) - this is making feel sick
2) labour MP's who voted for the bombing have contacted the security services because of the "threatening tweets" they've received and "disturbing images" sent - either via social media or for some through their doors.
Threats are to be deselected, images are of children who've been killed in war.
So they're freaked out by these things, enough to require "security services", yet they chose to ignore the terror Syrian people will feel by the prospect of bombs raining down on them, their children, their families.
Wtaf
I feel truly depressed today - for those poor Syrian people of course, but for our society, our country, our world and for humanity full stop
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