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Post by twix on Jun 24, 2009 7:55:26 GMT
Hi Giddy, sorry to hear that this is dragging on for you and your girl. Have you seen the NICE guidelines www.nice.org.uk/nicemedia/pdf/CG72QRG.pdfDiagnosis should be made when symptoms of hyperactivity/impulsivity and/or inattention: – meet the criteria in DSM-IV or ICD-10 (hyperkinetic disorder), and – are associated with at least moderate psychological, social and/or educational or occupational impairment based on interview and/or observation in multiple settings, and – are pervasive, occurring in at least two settings. It seems to me that you have more than 1 setting where she is having problems and that there are clear social problems for her. The other thing the NICE guidelines suggest for children is 10 weeks of "watchful waiting". Have a look at the flow chart. This could be what they are doing I suppose. It is also in there for them to assess parents. So it could be that she will get a diagnosis but not yet. In which case you are not wasting time, just going through a process which takes time. Frustrating but they do need to be thorough. Anyway,I would suggest you talk to Cahms when you are in a calm mood and show them what you have written above, tell them how much she is struggling with the gym class and how upset she is getting at not being invited to parties. Ask them what is happening. As for the gym classes if she is getting upset then maybe give it a break for a while. I would not suggest no exercise though because it helps. She sounds so much like me at that age. I would suggest something that keeps her on the go without having to wait her turn and probably getting her outside, so maybe lots of trips to the park, long walks (can you borrow a dog? - it would be a good 4 legged friend as well as helping to exercise the hyper out) Swimming I find good, maybe a water park if she likes that. Anything where she can be free would be great. Oh and have you asked the gym teacher to tell cahms what she is like, it sounds like a really good piece of evidence from them. Anyway thinking of you and give your daughter a big hug. Hope this helps.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 24, 2009 12:51:03 GMT
Hey Giddy,
Just wanted to say I am more or less in the same boat except our CAHMsteam doesn't have an ADHD specialist. All I have been told by them is that my son doesn't have autism and that he does have 'something'. I just got back from our OT apointment. He seemed to do pretty well (grrrr!). She is going to see him at school. My husband says don't worry about it, they will see what we mean eventually. But how bloody long is that going to take. My son is just like your daughter, caring and helpful in class. In fact he is lovely most of the time its just that a beautiful smile could turn in to a punch in the stomach at any time. The thing is he tries so hard to be good at school that it all comes out at the end of the day. He still cries going in to school and tells me that he is regularly bullied but either forgets to tell a dinner lady or is told to 'just ignore it'. I am desperate also, my heart is breaking right now and I feel that I have tried everything and no one will listen. Sorry for going on, just wanted to let you know that you are not alone. Take care
Mrs M
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Post by Deleted on Jun 24, 2009 12:53:53 GMT
BTW my son never gets invited to parties any more. He is in a class of 34 and has only been to 1 this year. We also gaveup on gymnastics and swimming lessons for our sanity and his safety!
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Post by Deleted on Jun 24, 2009 21:12:20 GMT
Hi. Thankyou for your advice and support. Sorry for the ramble of my earlier post. I'm a bit more 'with it' tonight. My wife is attending an ADHD workshop for parents tomorrow ( I would go too but I can't get the time off work, which is fortunate 'cos I don't think I could stick it out for 4 hours regardles of how much buffet they offer me . The workshop was suggested to us by the CAMHS team. We feel we need to push for a diagnosis but I'm not sure how best to persuade them to give us one and keep a good relationship at the same time. Also, I'm wondering if it is not in my daughters interest to get an official diagnosis at this stage and maybe thats why they are reluctant to give us one. So I guess the question is, should I trust the CAMHS teams decision or should we push for what we feel is right I know what the parents observing her in action during gymnastics would say.
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Post by .... on Jun 24, 2009 23:12:17 GMT
Hi giddy. Am sorry to hear that you are having such a time of it.
The reasons for holding out on a diagnosis sound a little strange to me. I've seen people with varying conditions request, and get a second opinion within the NHS before and it might be something you want to try if you aren't happy.
Some of your posts on this forum were the first I ever read, and I just sat here thinking 'hey thats my daughter all over!'.
My daughter was diagnosed ADHD at age 7 by a specialist paediatrician she was referred to by the GP at the request of the school. They used the Conners rating scale, and observed her, as well as interviewing us and her. Lots of the questions they asked about her development as a baby/toddler seemed odd at the time, but I can see the relevance now. (If she wasn't held by just either me or her father she'd scream till blue from the day she was born to 3 mnths old)
My daughter will be 10 at the end of the year. And one of the stiking things I've found in the last three years are the differences in what I've read regarding ADHD in boys as opposed to girls. It is also the case that my daughter will hyperfocus and perform well in tasks she is interested in which means sometimes people who don't have much to do with her get an incomplete picture.
I'm not sure how correct this is, someone else may be along in a minute who knows for sure, but I think 7 is a watershed age. Perhaps because its when they've had a few years to settle in school, or perhaps because some conditions with overlapping traits are too difficult to diagnose properly in younger childen.
One of the best things I ever did with my daughter was to get a daybook put in place at school. It gives me a picture of what is going on each day, and means the school are putting things in writing. My daughter was not terribly behind at age 7, but now aged 9 its killing me trying to keep her from falling further and further behind. Whichever way it all goes, I've found official diagnosis to be of very little use in getting the help my daughter needs. The flipside of which is that you don't need a diagnosis to push for the help your daughter requires in school.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 25, 2009 19:32:49 GMT
Hey, thanks chrysallis. My wife went to the ADHD parents workshop today. She came back with all sorts of interesting and useful information. One of the things she said is that most of the children whose parents were in the group had been diagnosed by a Paediatrician and wanted to get the diagnosis confirmed by the CAMHS team. Apparently this would entitle them to more help and other benefits. It seems that the CAMHS team provide a much more accurate diagnosis and in some cases disprove a paediatricians diagnosis of ADHD. We were accidentally referred to the CAMHS team for a second opinion by the temp. paed and I guess I should be happy they have concluded that she shows all the main characteristics of ADHD but is strangely coping in her lessons (even though we know she is not coping all the time). After the workshop my wife is in absolutely no doubt that our daughter has ADHD and they have advised us to pursue a diagnosis for her sake (and ours). She also came back with some interesting and worrying facts about me too! It is re-assuring that we are on the right track. Thanks again. All of your kind comments and support have been greatly appreciated.
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Post by .... on Jun 28, 2009 21:17:07 GMT
Hiya. Sounds like things are on the up! Interesting and worrying facts about you tho eh? lol.
Funny thing happens when I sit in front of my daughters paediatrician - we'll talk about traits that are problematic or quirky and I'll say 'but thats normal no? I do that alot' and his face contorts up and he bites his tongue alot lol. I sometimes think he is itching to diagnose me with ADHD too.
Its a good thing ultimately that I share some of her difficulties - It means I understand her thought processes where others would not.
Anyway, hope it all keeps going well, and seriously consider asking for a daybook it gives you something to refer back to, and shows up patterns in behaviour. Chrysallis
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Post by Deleted on Jun 29, 2009 9:04:07 GMT
...the criteria for ADHD in girls is slightly different isn't it? wiv more mood swings and social problems, both of my girls present certain symptoms which r very trait like, my youngest has serious temper control issues and socialises very little, shes at a southwark inclusive learning centre (sils) as she jus couldn't handle mainstream school and is being assessed on 24th of July at the Belgrave department ( the youth wing of maudsley) However I'm more concerned with my eldest daughter, who has been placed in a on site school unit, educationally wen she attends (shes classed as a school refuser) she is quite a high achiever, her grades are excellent, but she finds it v difficult to concentrate, is scatty ad oppositional, she isnt presenting enough symptoms wivin the school setting for her to be assessed and so I fear she'll have problems wen she's older, now Im medicated I am starting to get some order in the house, but they see her as naughty, they think she wants to be like her brother and sister who they think she thinks have it easy, so they aren't even looking into it, shud i pursue a diagnosis for her or leave her to see how she goes?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 29, 2009 9:06:17 GMT
my eldest daughter is a live wire and seems to have tics, shouting words out randomly and giggling, she has a few close friends who adore her for that live wire - ness she is ery bright and bubbly but moody and is self medicatin wiv nicotine and caffine... is it worth pursuing a diagnosis? and if so, where do I start?
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Post by annie on Jul 28, 2009 9:12:44 GMT
Hi giddy
Maybe you should be asking Camhs when they think their assessment will be complete? Some Camhs teams do a multi disciplinary assessment with O/t's, speech therapists etc. all doing their bit, before the Consultant Psychiatrist draws it all together and comes up with a dx.
Have I got it right - are you also on the "road for assessment"?
Asha
Really pleased to hear you've finally had your assessment and are now trialling meds. You certainly do have an awful lot on your plate, what with your own children and your unborn grandchild!
In a situation like yours it must feel awfully difficult to prioritise things. Maybe you need to take a step back from your grandchild and put most of your efforts into making sure your own children get the help they need. I can't remember all your circumstances, but I know you said your 17yr old son does not want to go down the route of assessment (although you strongly suspect he does have adhd?)
What about your younger children? I think you mentioned one of them was doing well academically but was in some kind of "special school" because of her school refusal. Even although the school are not suggesting further help, I do think you need to consider asking your Gp for a referral to Camhs. There's a strong genetic link in adhd so her difficulties may well point to undx adhd. You've certainly got nothing to lose by asking for a referral - there has to be some explanation as to why she is a school refuser.
Good luck with your appointment on the 30th!
annie
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Post by Deleted on Jul 29, 2009 19:50:39 GMT
Hi Annie, Thanks for asking. My daughter has recently been assessed at school by an educational psychologist. His report suggest that she is doing remarkably well, getting average or better scores for nearly everything except short term visual memory where she got 5y7m (she is 7y4m) but he said she could have been distracted due to playtime approaching. Most surprising was her score for matrixes (reasoning) where she got 11y3m! Her end of year school report says she is average for speaking/listening & science, OK for writing but below level for maths and reading (despite the last 6 months or so of extra lessons). Teachers comment is that if she applies herself her work is at an excellent standard but this is too inconsistent. We are confused. What does it mean? Its getting much harder now to keep her under control at home and when we are out shopping etc. She is becoming increasingly oppositional and disruptive. She is very impulsive and inattentive and it looks like we have to stop her going to gymnastics because of the problems she is causing. A lady from ADHD Northwest came to visit yesterday and she agrees with us and advised us to pursue the diagnosis. CAMHS seem to be reluctant to give a diagnosis at this stage. This next coming year of school could be an interesting one.
I went for my second assessment yesterday and I did a 'Conner's Continuous Performance test II' where I scored 84%!! But the Psych is not confident that its ADHD or ADHD on its own and placed me under the rather large umbrella of 'Autistic Spectrum Disorder' (or something like that) and is going to try to send me to Maudsley and also an Autism specialist in Bristol I think. Don't know what to think but there is some comfort in having confirmation that its not all in my head (pardon the pun). The wait is tearing me apart though.
Going to have to go, she running around the room, knocked over the drawing chest thing and is now bouncing on our bed....grrr kids eh!
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Post by annie on Jul 30, 2009 7:53:24 GMT
Hi giddy
First of all your situation. It's good news your psychiatrist is taking your difficulties seriously. I think there are quite a few people on here who a dual dx of adhd and some form of autism so I think it's helpful for you to have an "expert" opinion from both pecialists. I did think the Maudsley did both types of assessments so it might pay you to ask if you can be referred there, rather than having to go to Bristol as well.
With regards your daughter. There's a huge discrepancy in the findings of the Ed. Psych. and the teachers assessments! Given her scores I would have thought she would at least have benn "average" in all areas of her work. Did the Ed.Psych. come up with any explanations as to why she was below average in certain areas?
I was part of a Camhs workshop a couple of weeks ago where Camhs staff, teachers and parents got ogether to look at the interface between Education and Camhs. It was most informative and illuminating!! One thing I did learn was that in my area, one of the Psychiatrist's did comment on the difficulty they have in getting Ed psych's to carry out all of the sub tests. Apparently having results from a full battery of tests aids their dx. Normally camhs teams do have some Clinical psychology time so you could ask if further assessment by the Clinical psychologists would move things along.
When you say "camhs seem to be dragging their feet" in what way? You most certainly are entitled to know what their conclusions are given the info they have so far. It is most certainly not in your daughter's interet to have the assessment dragged out! She's obviously a very bright little girl and something is causing a barrier to her achieving her full potential.
Keep going - perseverance will win in the end!!
annie
ps excuse the spelling - I can't seem to correct them properely without having to re-type the whole thing again!!
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Post by Deleted on Jul 30, 2009 19:52:26 GMT
Hi Annie, The psych is having to go through my GP for the referral to Maudsley and there is the potential problem of funding too. He didn't seem aware that Maudsley can do both assessments, I will let him know. Being something of a numpty I only really glanced over the ed.psychs report and looked mainly at the conclusions. Looking at it more closely he says her spelling and writing could have been better but it was close to playtime and she was losing concentration and also he didn't have time to assess her maths but says her class work was good. He also says that she can work for a reasonable length of time with the occasional prompting needed over 1.5 hours!! Everyone that has met her knows this is absolutely ridiculous! Its a bit like the non-committal report you get from a house survey. I'm reluctant to challenge CAMHS because they have a better understanding of the severity of our daughters problems in comparison to their other subjects. I understand that they accepted this responsibility as a favour for the temp. paed. as they usually only deal with children of secondary school age. You may recall that the paed. wanted ADHD Northwest to give the second opinion but we opted for CAMHS (they were nearer) after they were asked by mistake. I suspect that if ADHD Northwest had seen her she would have been diagnosed immediately. Ironically, and no disrespect to ADHD Northwest, our daughter has turned into a horror after using their advice for managing her behaviour i.e. timeouts etc. Its like the monster inside has been awakened!! But we'll keep at it. We forgot about and missed the follow up appointment with the new paediatrician but I guess they will want to leave the diagnosis to CAMHS now. Her self esteem is taking some stick but we continue to try and build her self confidence until we can get help.
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Post by annie on Jul 31, 2009 7:17:24 GMT
Hi Giddy
I'm a bit confused - not unusual for me!
Why is your daughter still being seen by the Paed. when she is under Camhs? Normally a child is seen by one or the other, not both. What is the difference between ADHD Northwest and your Camhs service? There may be a local agreement between your Paed.s and Camhs that Paeds see primary age children, asyou suggest, with Camhs seeing secondary pupils. In my area Camhs will see all children of school age with behavioural problems.
If she's not under ADHD northwest why are they advising you on behavioural strategies - are they the organisation running the Parenting course? Sorry to ask all these questions - you've maybe answered them somewhere else.
Irrespective of the above you are entitled to have feedback from Camhs about their conclusions so far and what else needs to be completed before they can make a definitive dx.
annie
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Post by Deleted on Jul 31, 2009 20:41:08 GMT
Hi Annie, Sorry for the confusion, I'll try and explain it better. Brace yourself though 'cos its a bit tricky.
The temporary paed wanted a second opinion because he misread the conners questionaire filled by school. Personally I don't think he had any experience with ADHD and was out of his depth.
Here's the tricky bit: He instructed his secretary to ask an ADHD specialist for their opinion. Unfortunately he was meaning ADHD Northwest but his secretary asked CAMHS instead. CAMHS couldn't process the request because it had been sent to them written on an ADHD NW form (or something like that). So the secretary resent the request to ADHD NW. Now they were both involved. I didn't know anything about CAMHS but they are 15 mins from home so I asked if we could be sent there. They took my daughter on as a favour to the paed - they don't usually see kids earlier than secondary school age. We were very grateful.
ADHD Northwest are a group that help and advise parents of children with ADHD and I think work closely with CAMHS and paeds. They have been brilliant and offered great advise and support. They do ADHD parenting workshops which my wife will be attending as soon as they start again.
Anyway, CAMHS made it clear that they would not offer a diagnosis on the first day because there could be a number of underlying problems. Also, we got our eldest daughter referred to them directly by the GP because of their expertise and willingness to 'have a look'.
But the paed wanted to be kept in the loop and made us an appointment for 6 months time (ish). Thinking about it, I don't know why either, its out of his hands now isn't it? Or maybe I'm supposed to go back to the paed with a diagnosis so its back in their control. But CAMHS said that they would be treating her assuming a diagnosis. But I think CAMHS would prefer to wait and see how she develops and maybe when she can use their diagnostic programmes. Eeeeeeeeeek! I'm about to disappear up my own ar.....
Can't say I put that much thought into it before.
Incidentally, we recieved our eldest daughters (12 years) edu. psych. report today. It says she has a poor working memory (7 years) and there is concern for some of the problems she has educationally and socially. Strangely enough, like her sister, she scored very high for her reasoning (16 years). Wonder what CAMHS will think.
I guess CAMHS will tell of their conclusions of our youngest at our next appointment (no appointment yet). But they already told my wife that she shows all the signs of ADHD but they can't make a diagnosis if her school work is not suffering. May have to wait until after they have gone back to school and settled in.
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Post by annie on Aug 1, 2009 10:31:30 GMT
Hi giddy
I went back and read your posts since Feb - you and your wife must be so, so frustrated by all this - it's certainly got my blood boiling!!!
I went on to the website for Adhd Northwest and see they are a charity run by parents and carers of children with adhd - doing a lot of sterling work trying to get the condition more widely recognised, especially the educational difficulties of the children.
It would seem their are some protocols (rules) in your area which suggest Paeds. assess children for adhd in primary school settings and Camhs secondary. I know in your post in feb. you said the paed was a locum - have they appointed a parmanent Paed yet?
I can't understand camhs apparent reluctance to give a dx because she's doing ok in school. She's not - she's already been kept back a year- she's had 6 mths help with reading and yet the school are saying she is still behind her peers - what further evidence do Camhs want!!! Her reasoning skills put her in th"gifted" range yet she is still stuggling with the basics of literacy and numeracy. Teachers say if she applied herself she could do really well but she is too inconsitent. Many adults on here will recognise these comments from their own school days.
I think you have been patient for long enough! I would suggest you ring Camhs and ask for an urgent appointment. I would also ask to meet with the Ed Psych to go over his report - I would have thought he should be able to give you a baseline IQ for your daughter, given the tests he's done - I would also be asking him to complete the tests he didn't have time to do.
In relation to the school, at what stage is your daughter at in terms of the Special Educational Needs policy - is it School Action or School Action Plus? What does her IEP (Individual Education Plan) look like - are you happy with the interventions the school are making?
For your info and other parents, where a child is receiving help from agencies outside the school e.g. Ed Psych, Camhs, speech and language, Ot's, the child should at a minimal be on School Action Plus
Do make use of the experience of Adhd Northwest - I'm sure they will have a lot of knowledge about your local services and will probably know a lot about the role of paeds vs camhs.
Don't feel you can't "push" the professionals - you are entitled to have your questions answered.
Good luck and keep us posted.
annie
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Post by Deleted on Sept 9, 2009 19:23:35 GMT
Hi, thanks for all of your advice especially to Annie. We really appreciate it. Our blood is definitely boiling! I understand that CAMHS are very busy but they really do seem to be taking their time. We are soooooooo frustrated. Finally managed to get some sort of response from CAMHS in way of an appointment at the beginning of October. But, after speaking to them on the phone, it doesn't look like they are going to give a diagnosis. They say that the school observations show that she is not showing ADHD behaviour in class and the edu.psych report backs this up. We just can't understand it. CAMHS observed her impulsive & hyper behaviour and said she shows all the signs & symptoms of ADHD but manages well at school. Are they suggesting that this is not affecting her education or social problems and self esteem? We know she tries really hard to behave and fit in at school but this means she gets even more upset if she is told off. She keeps worrying that she will get sent to the headmistress to be told off. I'm not going into the problems we have with her at home and when we are out but I will say that Mum is reluctant to take her shopping and she refuses to take both of the kids shopping at the same time without me. We still can't take her to the cinema or out for a meal. I took her to Ikea recently - never again. She's a good kid but a real handful at times. Annie, they do have a permanent paed. now but we can hardly approach the paed. if CAMHS won't give a diagnosis. Can we? We want a diagnosis so that we get her better help at school and a more understanding attitude towards her behaviour from the people that work with her. But what’s the point if CAMHS say that there is nothing wrong at school.
I’m not really sure what we are going to say to CAMHS, but the right words never seem to come until after the event. Help and advice is more than welcome.
CAMHS are also going to discuss our eldest daughter but I will save that for another thread.
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Post by annie on Sept 10, 2009 9:00:51 GMT
Hi giddy
It does seem as though your stuck between "a rock and a hard place!!!
If I've got it right there seems to be certain protocols between Paeds. and Child and Adolescent Psychiatrists, in your area. Paeds. appear to assess,dx and treat the under 11's with Camhs doing 11 plus. Unfortunately you were initially seen by a locum Paed. who didn't feel he had the expertise to assess and as a result you've ended up in Camhs.
I really don't understand Camhs perception that your daughter is doing OK at school. You have said many things in your earlier posts which indicate this is not true. Perhaps you need to go through these posts and write down all the evidence you have so far about her school difficulties and present this to them at your next appointment - remember you and your wife know your child better than anyone else and you're in the position of getting conflicting information on a regular basis from school and not just the one off report Camhs will have.
You might also like to ask them how many children of your daughter's age have they assessed - your entitled to know this
Good luck
annie
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Post by Deleted on Sept 10, 2009 19:34:13 GMT
Hi Annie, Boy am I glad you came back to the forum! I believe my daughter is the youngest they have seen but I will ask them at the appointment. Unfortunately I am the oldest they have seen too by 17 years! and they have seen him since he was a teen.
We have arranged an appointment with the edu. psych. for next Friday to discuss his findings.
We have also asked school about the 'Individual Education Plan' but the school say they haven't got one for her because she is not special needs. It would seem the extra reading and literacy lessons she had last year was just something they do if a child is falling behind. Also, she is now having extra numeracy lessons to 'boost her up' but apparently this too means nothing because 40 people in the school are having the same and they say she probably won't need them next term.
We keep getting conflicting information when we ask our daughter about the school day. She seems to struggle to remember much of it and changes her story all the time. I do know she lives in fear of moving up the traffic light and also the teacher that is taking her for extra lessons doesn't mind her fidgeting, swivelling on the chair and touching things (she says).
She has worn out the toes of her shoes in less than a week and she is full of bruises.
The teacher she has this year is the same one our eldest had most of the problems with and after many arguments resulted in us falling out with school. Of course, at the time we were not aware of our eldest daughters problems. We are a lot wiser now but experience tell us that we won't be able to do anything about the problems if we don't have a dx.
I don't know if school somehow benefit from playing down our daughters problems but they are more than evident in every other aspect of her life (to everyone). But if CAMHS are in agreement with school then we have no choice but to accept that she has no problem in class. Inspite of how wrong it feels.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 11, 2009 16:48:32 GMT
We are so annoyed and upset with school. We picked our daughter up from school and we could immediately see that she had been crying. My wife asked the teacher how she had been and she said that she has been great all week. But she burst in to tears and said she hates juniors. She has been trying so hard to be good. She is terrified of being sent to the headmistress for being naughty. If everyone in the class is green all week they all get a mini party but if anyone has moved up the traffic light then everyone else gets a playtime at the end of the week but the 'naughty' ones don't. Our daughter was moved up to yellow at the beginning of the week for chatting but she tried really hard to be good for the rest of the week only to be rewarded by not being allowed to play with all the other children on the play area. She had no pre-warning that this was going to happen and will have been really looking forward to playing and climbing. I know the teachers have to keep control of the kids but this seems a lot of pressure to put on a 7 year old and too harsh a punishment on someone who is trying so hard to show she can be good. She was inconsolable for an hour. If this carries on I'm sure she will turn in to a 'problem child'. We really don't want it to get to that stage. We have no idea what to say to her and we know much of the time she can't help herself so we can't tell her to be good like everyone else because she will feel that no one understands and is isolated. She is a very sensitive and emotional little girl.
I'm sorry if I seem like I'm moaning about nothing. But this teacher is the same one that made our eldest daughters life a misery and we can't stand back and let it happen again. we don't think our youngest will handle it nearly as well as our eldest did.
Without a dx the worry is that the teacher will be demanding too much from her with no understanding.
Maybe we are just reading too much into this. It is the first week.
Wish CAMHS could see what we can see.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 11, 2009 17:11:13 GMT
My daughter wasnt diagnosed with ADD until she was about 14, we had all these problems, she was very caring and quiet at school, but changed when she got home. We were told girls with ADD are hard to diagnose until they reach their teens.
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Post by andy12345 on Sept 11, 2009 20:56:44 GMT
It's time to take the battle to this person that calls themself a "teacher".
7 years old for god sake? Segregating someone who can't help themselves? I would take serious action, don't let your child grow up with all of the rage and frustration bourn from repression-like tactics. Maybe, I am over-reacting here??? but I think I am right to point this out.
Unfair treatment is something that makes me flip out. I made a rant about schools a while ago, this just makes me rant more.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 12, 2009 12:17:27 GMT
what sort of vicious person, would wait until friday to punish a 7 year old for something they did on a monday!?!?!?!
it seems to me, that for every decent & caring teacher, there are about three who are ignorant bullies!...
honestly giddy, i don't know what i'd do in your situation, but reading your post makes me so angry about what you and your wife & daughter are going through!
i don't have kids myself, so i don't have much advice. i think you just have to make sure you're a thorn in the side of the school! and if things don't improve, look around for other schools she could attend.
i went from loving school when i was 5 to hating school when i was 7, and it was all down to the bitch who taught me for a year when i was 6! -she was a LOOONY and she changed my entire attitude to education, so 1 year with a bad teacher can make a huge difference on your life and i'd hate your daughter to go through that kind of thing too!
Could you become a school governor at her school?... Maybe you could influence their policy towards kids with special needs, and also you could develop a closer relationship with the head teacher. If you were actually involved with the running of the school, perhaps the teachers would listen to you more!...
-matt
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Post by .... on Sept 12, 2009 15:08:22 GMT
Was sorry to hear your little one had a bad week. Its maddening when they set unachievable targets and then punish for missing them- no one should ever be 'set up' to fail, under any circumstance and it makes me really really cross. Anyway, I've never found the threat of invoking rights under the DDA to be of any use when dealing with my little ones school, but the High court appeal within the link below is worth reading if you intend to ask the school to make reasonable adjustments for your daughter..... www.adhddorset.btik.com/news/1702618735.ikmlQuote " The parents of a boy with Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder (ADHD) went to the SEN and Disability Tribunal (SENDIST) alleging discrimination. The Tribunal accepted that the pupil had a clinically well-recognised mental impairment and therefore was likely to be covered by the definition of disability. However SENDIST struck out the claim. They determined that as the diagnosis of ADHD post dated the alleged discrimination the child was not disabled at the time of the alleged discrimination and therefore not protected by the DDA. " "The DRC supported an appeal to the High Court where the appeal was conceded by SENDIST; the decision to strike out proceedings was set aside and the claim was referred back for re-consideration by SENDIST. " "The fact that the child had not been given an official diagnosis was not relevant to the question of whether the child had a particular impairment. The impairment was considered to amount to a disability because it had a long-term and substantial adverse effect on the child's ability to carry out normal day-to-day activities, despite the fact that at the point of the discrimination there was no official diagnostic label given. The child's disability was the same before the diagnosis as after. " "Equally a diagnosis does not of itself mean that a child is covered by the DDA. The child's impairment has to have a long-term and substantial adverse effect on the child's ability to carry out normal day-to-day activities, whether or not it has a label."
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Post by .... on Sept 12, 2009 15:20:56 GMT
NB. I ought to have stressed Giddy, that I would not advise using the above case as leverage with the school. It just suggests you wouldn't be being an unreasonable parent to ask small accomodations.
(Our headteacher stopped my daughter from working in the book corner with just one friend, which worked really well for her and the teacher. On reflection this might have been because other schools have had their wrists slapped for segregating pupils with similar issues. No one can apply common sense anymore!)
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Post by laura on Sept 12, 2009 15:37:15 GMT
hi giddy it makes me so frustrated when i read posts like yours, why should we have to fight so hard to get the help we and our children need? it makes me especially frustrated by the lack of knowledge or ignorance when it comes to girls with ad/hd. people seem to think its only boys and we get forgotton and misunderstood. having only just found out about ad/hd i didnt know what was wrong and why i felt so different, my intellegence and kindness has just about got me through this far. and it upsets me that others like your daughter wiithout help could have an adolescence and early adulthood like mine. it could have been so much better if only id have known anyway my sons school seem to be helpful at the moment. when ive asked before how hes getting on they have always said hes fine, everybody loves him, hes a real character. but he hates school, has got very low self esteem and from what ive seen his written work is behind his peers, but his creative flair is amazing. i spoke to his new teacher who is very nice and said she has always been drawn to children like tae, and will try to help any way she can. i mentioned ad/hd and how i am also seeking a diagnosis and explained a bit about it as she didnt know much. she commented that hes always on the go, has poor fine motor skills, is in a special group for gross motor skills, gets upset easily, and has trouble getting started when its time to sit down and work. but before i mentioned ad/hd he was apparently fine with no problems! confusing they have conferences where they focus on each childs progress and taes is at the end of the month, shes going to raise my concerns and we will go from there. i have also took him to the gps and saw the dr that reffered me and she said he would be able to have an assessment but they needed some info from school 1st. so its looking good at the moment for him but i dont want to get my hopes up ;D
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Post by boo on Sept 12, 2009 16:46:45 GMT
giddy, i have to agree with the others, thats an awful way to try and get good behaviour out of kids. i dont understand why she didnt get moved back to green, she had obviously tried very hard what is it one strike and your out, no matter what you manage the rest of the time i hope you can get this sorted, cos its not fair on your little one and if it continues, she may not see the point of bothering to try any more
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Post by Deleted on Sept 12, 2009 23:38:47 GMT
Hi all I have attempted to read through all the posts on this one. Many have already gave much guidance and advise----you are all super! So hope you don't mind my putting a few pointers forward? 1) Can I suggest that a copy of the ADHD Care Pathway is requested (This will provide the information as to how referrals are made and services accessed) 2) In writing make a full request for the child's Education as well as academic records from the school. (Every parent has the right to access these under the FOI Act) 3) With regards to the Parenting Programme, is this an accredited programme? 4) CAMHS can often provide additional services alongside that of the Paeds---CBT, Anger Management etc, etc (Here they can anyway) I am attaching a copy of ADHD Guidelines I have from Morcombe Bay PCT even though saved as Lancashire in my documents file and hope they may be of some help. Honey x Attachments:
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Post by andy12345 on Sept 13, 2009 0:01:14 GMT
I would actually like to observe this "teacher" to see how they carry themselves when they are not picking on 7 year old kids.. I wonder how they handle pubs, clubs and shops etc. I would love to be able to read peoples' minds' especially some of my old wonderful catholic school teachers that were had such good "self-control" and lead by example.. Yes, I am being sarcastic, they were pathetic.
Anyway, let's start up an adhd school seeing as everyone here knows how to deal with adders.
So, only need to teach 20 adders in a class...........o.O urk. To be honest, it takes one to know one.......
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Post by Deleted on Sept 13, 2009 8:55:59 GMT
Giddy, meant to ask but have you thought of seeking your own private educational psychologists assessment? Not sure as to costs of such but many of our parents have gone down this route.
You could find out from the ADHD Support group in your area if they know of any private ed psychs or if perhaps they could intervene on your behalf. We attend school meetings with parents with cases such as yours and my first thought would be to call a 'Multi-agency Meeting for all parties involved with your child being invited to attend.
Can you tell me if a CAF (Common Assessment Framework) has been initiated? The CAF is a key part of delivering frontline services that are integrated, and are focused around the needs of children and young people. The CAF is a standardised approach to conducting assessments of childrens' additional needs and deciding how these should be met. It can be used by practitioners across children's services in England.
The CAF promotes more effective, earlier identification of additional needs, particularly in universal services. It aims to provide a simple process for a holistic assessment of children's needs and strengths; taking account of the roles of parents, carers and environmental factors on their development. Practitioners are then better placed to agree with children and families about appropriate modes of support. The CAF also aims to improve integrated working by promoting coordinated service provisions.
Honey xx
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