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Post by Deleted on Jul 5, 2009 23:20:30 GMT
Hi all,
you know how my mind works by now, i read a thread and that starts me thinking, and then i post a thread with whatever question it throws up.
I was just reading the mention of the 'great troll invasion' of 2009 in the arguments and criticism thread, and the thing that struck me was that when this was happening, we all understood exactly what this forum was about and could detect an intruder in our midst.
Now if we were as socially unskilled as we often believe we are, surely we would all post in a different style, different viewpoints, not get the joke, etc. yet the vast majority of new members settle into the style of this forum almost straight away.
I am not going to make any hypothesis, because i know there could be a lot of factors in this, not least the fact that people can read most of the posts without becoming a member, and a lot of new members introduce themselves by saying they've been 'hanging around' for a few months before joining and posting.
There is no written agenda on this forum, no cast iron clause, and yet we can all read from the same hymn sheet without needing any prompting, so do you think that under the right circumstances ADHDers can exhibit the advanced social skills that so many of us think we lack?
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bad twix should be elsewhere
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Post by bad twix should be elsewhere on Jul 6, 2009 8:26:48 GMT
I think that we have a set of social skills that are different to other peoples but similar amongst ourselves. I love spending time with my mum and various other suspected adhers and people on here because I can be myself and I don't have explain or make an effort to be understood.
I must have some degree of social skills in general, I am in a people job - well teenagers lol I'm just a big kid I suppose.
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Post by roland on Jul 6, 2009 9:23:15 GMT
Gosh what a fascinating observation lemonsnake!! It does seem as if in some circumstances we have good social skills A quick look back at all my blunders (or at least the ones I remember or am aware of ) shows that some occurred when I was talking about something I was very interested in, and at other times they occurred when I was too bluntly honest (my o/h says I can be brutally honest and kind in the same breath). For one example, a friend of mine was complaining about a chap who had stood her up, and not for the first time either, so I blurted out "for goodness sake why do you keep arranging to meet him; he's an a***?" Needless to say, she's now an ex-friend
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Post by redneck on Jul 6, 2009 10:12:59 GMT
I dont think I have any social skills, seem to spend most time causing misunderstandings and apologising!!!!!
RR
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Post by lily on Jul 6, 2009 10:18:52 GMT
I think that I have excellent people skills but I do have the symptom of interrupting people, not listening to peoples answers, not waiting my turn etc. Like Roland said if its something im interested in then I just cant not interrupt people! I have to get my point across before I forget aswell!
Lily x
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Post by boo on Jul 6, 2009 12:54:00 GMT
i am always being pulled up for interupting too and as for general social skills, i have been so acutely aware of my failings and none of my positives, that i have virtually become a social hermit
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Post by roland on Jul 6, 2009 15:31:44 GMT
I've been thinking about this some more especially after what boo said, and I can only speak for myself but I think some of my social awkwardness may come in part from the fact that I worry about being awkward (in addition to not taking the time to think before I speak). Also, I'm wondering if we judge ourselves very harshly because non-adhd others are sometimes judgemental due to the stigma surrounding not only the label ADHD (thanks to irresponsible journalists), but also to the stigma that is attached to certain behaviours like being too blunt or not paying attention to everything that's said to us. I don't know where I'm going with this, but boo, I just wanted to say that I'm sure from what I've seen on this forum that you are vastly underestimating your positives, and vastly overestimating your failings!! Maybe it's some of the non-adhd people that are the problem not us
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Post by Deleted on Jul 6, 2009 16:05:55 GMT
Hehe, this is a very good point. The reason I think we exist harmoniously is because whilst other people think we have social difficulties, we see the way we act as perfectly okay. So we all get along handsomely as the type of things that would upset others we laugh at and understand the point, rather than getting hung up on the delivery. I seem to think that I have fantastic social skills lol, its not my fault everyone seems to get upset at the truth, and being interrupted continously, etc When I talk with ADHDers I dont feel the need to keep apologising for interrupting, and like twix up there, explanations are not needed. Gimme an ADHD buddy anyday. And Roland, you are definitely onto something there. I think as a group and as individuals we could be trying to remember the fantastic qualities we have. I know its because we are trying to combat the negative aspects that they are more in our mind (and seem much larger).
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Post by twix on Jul 6, 2009 18:19:46 GMT
I would really appreciate a friend saying to me something like that Roland, because when you are in that situation you can't see the wood for the trees. I remember ages ago, must be a year ago now I was trying really hard to work things out with my ex and I was talking to a good friend about how I felt I wasn't being supportive enough, and he was quite blunt/direct with me and it really opened my eyes to what was going on and that it wasn't my fault when I thought it was. It really helped me. Its not your fault if your friend didn't want to see the truth.
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Post by twix on Jul 6, 2009 19:20:10 GMT
I though we could have a repeat of this for everyone to be positive about how wonderful we all are Forgives mistakes easily Sensitive Compassionate Empathetic with the feelings of others Feels things deeply Doesn't harbor resentment Charming personality Warmhearted Good judge of character Charismatic Outgoing Personable Perceptually acute Intuitive (when you miss out on stuff because you're distracted, you learn to figure things out) Observant (it seems like inattention, but it often is over attention) Sees unique relationships between people and things Looks past surface appearance to the core of people, situations, and issues Visionaries Dreamers Visual Fast thinking Quick to grasp essentials Insightful Intuitive Inquisitive Imaginative Innovative Creative in nature (including: in problem solving) Inventive Flexible Resourceful Hardworking Original Mechanically inclined Takes risks (sometimes this can be good) Often sees things from a unique perspective Great at finding things that are lost (of course, we get lots of practice looking for things) Multi-talented Humorous with a great sense of humor Spontaneous Fun Fun-loving Energetic Enthusiastic Athletic (we like to move around) Less likely to get in a rut or go stale Adaptable More likely to do things because they want to than because they should Wholehearted when making an effort Optimistic Open-minded Trusting Not secretive Down to earth Eager for acceptance and willing to work for it Responsive to positive reinforcement Quick if they like what they are doing Intense when interested in something or someone Difficult to fool Loyal Humble (it's not hard when people are always telling you what's wrong with you) Resilient Passionate Tenacious
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Post by redneck on Jul 6, 2009 19:30:38 GMT
Its not easy to be positive when your adhd child physically abuses you
RR
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Post by frorgetnotme on Jul 6, 2009 23:03:04 GMT
maybe the positive is that your child feels safe enough in their relationship with you to be able to kick off at you because they know you wont reject them.
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Post by boo on Jul 6, 2009 23:38:46 GMT
thank you roland i do agree with what you said about being worried about feeling awkward, and sometimes i think my mouth can be like a dam, once the silence breaks, theres no stopping the bloody words from gushing out so there are times when i just stay quiet for fear of the dam walls breaking! my ex boss once said to me when i was going for an interview.... "just remember to take a breath between words and let him speak occasionally... and you'll do just fine" and personally i think i would much rather have a true friend who told me like it is and to know i could count on their honesty forgetnotme, that was said to me once a long time ago and holding on to that thought helped me get through some really tough times
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Post by twix on Jul 7, 2009 9:43:46 GMT
Forget me not is right. Its hard for kids to hold it together all day and inevitably it will come out with those that care the most. Is there anything we can do,even just be a listening ear for you R
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Post by Deleted on Jul 7, 2009 10:44:42 GMT
I find the concept that ADHDers are supposed to be socially unskilled a bit of a red herring; I am still undiagnosed, trying to get some answers about the causes of my possibly inattentive behaviour, but I don't see myself as socially unskilled. Withdrawn, a little shy, perhaps, but I consider myself affable and empathetic. Any problems in my social life are to do with not getting out and about enough to see people, remembering to call on friends, etc.
The only diagnosed adult I know is a hyperactive who is (perhaps unsurprisingly) outgoing, energetic and fun; hard work sometimes, but fun, the kind of person everybody in town knows.
I think that the "social skills" bit applies much more to kids; when you're a hyperactive kid you might get labelled a "naughty" boy or girl or your boisterous behaviour might stop you fitting in, if you're inattentive, then perhaps you're happy to daydream rather than play with other kids. But being a socially-excluded child doesn't mean you'll be utterly inept as an adult.
Adult ADHDers aren't kids, they've often learned to compensate for the foibles that ADHD gives them, and frankly, a bit of eccentricity gets more attractive as you get older; who wants to hang out with the straights and talk mortgage rates in their time off? Plus, your perpsectives change. My happiness has never been contingent on the amount of friends I have. My self-esteem is not built solely on the opinions of others. Maybe that makes me antisocial and arrogant, or maybe it makes me a rational, self-aware, independent person.
And who really lacks social skills in the following situation: The person who repeatedly blurts out, butts in and dominates the a conversation? The person who is shy, tougue-tied and fails to say anything much? The person who encourages the shy one with questions and gently suggests that the garrulous one should let others speak? Or is it the person who can't tolerate other people's quirks and walks away from the conversation?
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Post by Deleted on Jul 7, 2009 17:52:48 GMT
Aha, yes,
I like to think that I am gregarious adn outgoing. at times in my life I have been "leader of a Gang" aive committee member mr popular etc. but actually most of the time I am pretty much a loner and do not make frineds easily - I need some structure and joint motiviation and to be important in the group to get self esteem.
at other times I definately talk too much until people switch off, or sit quietly and listen- not feeling worthy to join in.
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Post by random on Jul 10, 2009 8:43:27 GMT
I have recently been involved in a situation where someone else was continually dominating the conversatation.I tried to spawn a sub conversation (we were in the pub after an event) but he continually chipped in. Trouble is I find it quite hard to make my point felt without either interrupting someone else or jwating and finding my point no longer fits in,
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Post by Deleted on Jul 10, 2009 8:56:24 GMT
I definately dont like social situations where i have to meet new people - I have never been able to understand how you start conversations with people you dont know - I always end up watching everyone at parties unless its people I have known a long time. I just keep my mouth shut - I agree too what I have to say isn't important enough. I have trouble trying to get out what I want to say in words too - I know what I'm trying to say but cant work out how to say it - I hate workplace meetings where you have to stand up and speak - I just have too much buzzing round in my head and cant follow what others are going on about. Needelss to say I left my last job because there were too people issues for me to deal with- plus the job was just boring!
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Post by redneck on Jul 10, 2009 9:36:35 GMT
Gav I think we may have been seperated at birth RR
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Post by roland on Jul 10, 2009 9:44:47 GMT
Yesterday in a meeting somebody asked me to corroborate what they were saying, but I couldn't because I didn't actually agree, so when they said " . . . isn't that so?" I bluntly said "No! blah di blah."
I knew as I was speaking that I had been too blunt, because I saw her cheeks redden slightly and the corners of her mouth droop a bit, and since I respect this person, I was thinking I should pause in my explanation and apologise for being too blunt, but simultaneously I was also thinking about why I didn't agree and I was trying to express my thoughts verbally, and somehow my thought about apologising in that moment became a lower priority than me trying to get my other thoughts heard.
Written sequentially like that it sounds like I was selfish when in fact what really happened was that I had a confusing whirl of thoughts and images in my head, but I felt driven to continue trying to say why I didn't agree.
And then I didn't remember about apologising until after the meeting had ended and she had left the building.
So I do think I'm socially impaired.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 10, 2009 10:28:42 GMT
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Post by redneck on Jul 10, 2009 13:01:41 GMT
No roland I think you are honest. Why corroborate somebodys output when you dont agree - just say so, you did, I would have too.
Well done you. There are too may hypocritocal "yes-men" in this world. Noway is this socailly impaired - Ive been put down all my life for speaking the truth and being honest. If people dont like the answer, they shouldnt ask the question.
I think you are totally right to have done what you did and if this person knows you well then they shouldnt have put you in the position in the first place.
Oh dear Im on a soapbox today (too much fresh air)]
RR
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Post by roland on Jul 10, 2009 15:02:42 GMT
Hi RR, Sorry for not being clear in my post, but I didn't mean that I felt I should have agreed with her. What I meant to say in my post was that I expressed my disagreement in a very tactless manner that ended up embarrassing her in front of the whole meeting. I didn't mean to embarrass her, it's just that the words came out of my mouth in a very blunt manner. I knew almost immediately that I had been tactless, and yet couldn't make the shift in my mind from formulating an explanation about why I disagreed to apologising for being tactless. It felt as if my gears were stuck And then I compounded things by forgetting to apologise until it was too late that day. Then I meant to email her this morning and what with one thing and another haven't done it yet Now that I call impairment And now I'm off to send that email before I forget again
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