|
Post by boo on Aug 27, 2009 0:16:12 GMT
y'know this chameleon thing, one of the things i have always felt about myself is that i dont seem to have a proper 'identity' that others have. i dont know if i am going to get across what i mean here, but flitting chameleon like in various situations is something I totally relate to. i would meet people who knew exactly who they were and what they were about and be so comfortable with themselves and i seemed to morph in and out of various 'characters' or 'personas' and try and please people (often to my own detrement), or thats how it felt i wanted to be able to stand up with confidence and know who i was and what i was about too and just be me well that .....and to wear my hat obviously oh and andys right, too much thinking, definitely not good for the little grey cells actually, the flitting in and out of 'characters' is maybe a defence mechanism, in my mind i reckon i have always believed/known/thought that people wouldnt like me, so i would try to be the person they might like instead i dunno, i think i have just completely ignored andys good advice and gone on a thinking spree, time for mindless nonsense again me thinks
|
|
|
Post by andy12345 on Aug 27, 2009 2:47:04 GMT
Boo, I agree with your identity comments. No one wants to feel left out, especially sensitive adhd personalities. Maybe it is good that the adhd brain is so accomodating. This allows it to just flow like water and fit any shape required. Perhaps it is a coping strategy as a lot of non-adhders would even try to be something they are not. If the hat fits..........then wear it? anyway, whatever!
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 27, 2009 20:35:40 GMT
hi safensound, sorry it's taken me a while to get back to you mate! ;D
So this is roughly how Atomoxetine works;
-The wires that carry messages through the brain are called Neurons, where these wires meet each other is a type of biological switch, which is known as a Synapse. Atomoxetine and the other ADHD drugs are aimed at making this switch work better.
-These switches are made up of 4 features. The first feature is a tiny gap between the wires, (called the Synaptic Cleft). On one side of this gap is the ‘Transmitter’ (known as the Axon Terminal) and a mechanism that ‘Resets’ the switch, (called the Transporter or Reuptake Pump) on the other side of the gap is the ‘Receiver’ (known as the Dendritic Spine).
When these switches are working normally, this is how a message travels from one part of the brain to another;
-An electrical signal travels down the neuron, until it reaches the Transmitter, the Transmitter then releases a chemical into the gap, which the Reciever on the other side of the gap picks up, that receiver then releases an electrical signal down it’s own neuron, and the message continues…
At this point, the gap is still full of the transmitter chemical. So to reset the switch, a small pump is turned on which sucks the chemical out of the gap, and back into the Transmitter, ready for the next signal to arrive.
The problem experienced by people with ADHD is that these switches are not working as well as they should. Because either our transmitters don’t release enough of the chemical into the gap, or the pumps which suck the chemical out of the gap work too well, Either way, the signal doesn’t fully reach the receiver.
ADHD drugs work by increasing the amount of chemical in the gap.
Atomoxetine works by making the ‘reuptake pump,’ which sucks the chemical out, less efficient. so the chemical is left in the gap longer.
All drugs that work in this way, are called Reuptake Inhibitors.
The chemicals that fill the gap are know as Neurotransmitters, this is not just one chemical, but many diffent chemicals, doing the same job, throughout the brain. In the part of the brain which ADHD affects, there are two main transmitter chemicals- Dopamine, and Noradrenaline. (known as Norepinephrine in the states)
Atomoxetine is a “Noradrenaline Reuptake Inhibitor.”
I hope this explains it a little…
-Matt
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 27, 2009 21:25:13 GMT
HAHAHAHA... i just read all your posts earlier in the thread! don't worry, i've not been kidnapped! -and the date thing was awesome! ;D
-i love everyone on here! and if i ever do get married, i promise i will ACTUALLY invite you!
-Matt
|
|
|
Post by boo on Aug 27, 2009 22:19:06 GMT
haha matt, nice to see you escaped had a nice time, we were mighty worried, poor laura was having palpatations and everything ;D
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 27, 2009 22:28:06 GMT
haha, well it's nice to know you care! ;D
|
|
|
Post by andy12345 on Aug 28, 2009 0:15:39 GMT
Who is matt? and what's atomoxetine?
Hehe, good explanation of the reuptake inhibitors etc. You managed to do it in less than 10 pages as well....
Well, you are still around, that's good.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 28, 2009 9:47:14 GMT
cheers andy! ;D
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 28, 2009 9:55:24 GMT
Taking Matts explanation and running with it a bit........
A certain number of the receptors need neurotransmitters to bond with them before the system is energised enough to pass the signal along - this makes sure that a stray neurotransmitter in the cleft hasn't set the system off by accident.
The reuptake system is one of the suspects for ADHD - if it's working twice as fast as it should then the required number of neurotransmitters will not occur in the gap since they are being hoovered up before they are seen by the receptors - a bit like my mum on dust patrol. The house has the same amount of dust as anyone else..but it's in the hoover rather than on the furniture.
So if you need (lets call it) 100 neurotransmitter molecules to bond with the receptors then the re-uptake system is often sucking up the excess when only 99 have got over the gap - so it fails to work.
Your neuro system is a bit like the game 'Mousetrap'. If the diver isn't heavy enough (enough neurotransmitter) then the ball does not roll etc and the trap does not fall (signal propagate down the system).
Have I just made it even more confusing?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 28, 2009 10:24:14 GMT
yep! ;D
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 28, 2009 10:25:59 GMT
just kidding dave, you're totally correct! i wouldn't expect anything less!...
there are also conditions caused by having too much neurotransmitter in the gap, -Schizophrenia for instance is characterised by an excess of dopamine, so the brain is flooded by unregulated signals, which cause confusion and distress. anti-psychotic drugs work by reducing the sensitivity of the receptors to dopamine.
-matt
|
|
|
Post by andy12345 on Aug 28, 2009 11:39:46 GMT
Well, obviously, let's not forgot about Gamma Amino Butryic Acid.
This is a very interesting neurotransmitter for slowing down the brain and making it more synchronised and stable.
When one is low in GABA, it has a big hand in the manic cycle of bipolar. When people drink too much alcohol, it increases GABA quite a lot, reducing the activity.
As my signature document states. Too much alcohol = too much GABA = no brain activity = death.
So, maybe a little bit of extra gaba plus some more stable brain glucose levels, a pinch of dopamine, some acetylcholine, bang bang, adhder's might just have a "bit" more stability and a better memory, especially when on the meds.
I mean, let's face it, do any of us here eat a nutritionally correct diet for our particularly brain/body combination?
If you even manage to, the stress of adhd will probably put your cortisol and such up and reduce the effectiveness of your body digestion, nutrition absorption etc.
Sometimes, I wish I could put this all together and understand it, but I have no chance with my clouded mind and negativity.
Apparently, excess dopamine is not the always guaranteed cause of psychosis either.
Give it ten years and things will be a lot clearer and much more medicatable.
Until then, let's procrastinate!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I am god of procrastination as well as pish btw! yay, what wonderful accolades to have pinned on one's brain...................Give me drugsssssssssssss..
Oh, I forgot that I am meant to get the maudsley details for my doc arghy. zoooooommmmmmmmmm
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 28, 2009 11:53:30 GMT
Matt/Dave
thanks for that........i think, no cheers for that. I didn't know as much as that, i think my main area im interested in is in general MPH like speads up production so more dope is made and anomxatine just stops daves mum hovering it up is that the general idea. Or am i just being lazy and should go and do own re search and stop anoying you good selves.
And also how is it stoping it from being hoovered up is it just chemical signals magic or more tangible like MPH works by speeding things up.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 28, 2009 14:27:18 GMT
The reuptake pump always tries to work at the same rate.
-The Atomoxetine sits in the gap alongside the transmitter chemical (Noradrenaline), and is a simlilar shape to it, (a substrate analogue)
When the pump turns on, it tries to suck up the Atomexetine aswell as the Noradrenaline.
Say for instance, the pump usually sucks up 100 molecules of Noradrenaline per second. -it might now suck up, 80 molecules of Noradrenaline & 20 molecules of Atomoxetine
So the pump's efficiency has been reduced by 20%.
This is called Competitive Inhibiton.
Amphetamines work in a similar way, but primarily on Dopamine. Amphetamines also stimulate the release of extra dopamine from the transmitter into the gap.
Methylphenidate, works slightly differently, it is not similar in shape to Dopamine or Noradrenaline, but it binds to the Dopamine and Noradrenaline pumps, which physically blocks these chemicals from leaving the gap and returning to the transmitter.
Methylphenidate increases Dopamine levels through several different mechanisms. And it's action is more similar to Cocaine (which is also a dopamine reuptake inhibitor) than it is to Amphetamines.
-MM
|
|
|
Post by laura on Aug 28, 2009 15:54:05 GMT
glad you had a good time matt ;D youve manage to make the nuerotransmitter stuff so easy to understand thanx. when i was doing human biology as level (i lasted 3 months i couldnt quite get the hang of it but now i do!
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 28, 2009 23:13:08 GMT
Thanks Matt
Thats great stuff, I was real curious about how it worked and now I know much better going to see consultant in a few weeks will quiz him and have a good base to start from as i dont like taking up his time.
So suprise suprise ye date went OK matt will you be having another or is this starting to get to creepy to coment:)
|
|
|
Post by haydreamer on Aug 29, 2009 9:38:55 GMT
Matt, nice to see you back! v comprehensive piece Atomoxetine -
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 30, 2009 19:34:53 GMT
Very well painted matt, and Im holding you to that Invite Matt. What a bash that would be, a party of ADHDers!! You better invite some security as well
|
|
|
Post by laura on Aug 30, 2009 19:36:24 GMT
it would be fun ill hold you to it too, if i remember ;D
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 30, 2009 20:22:40 GMT
what are you going to hold him to, you must have very long arms or maybee legs or both are you like Mr tickle your not orange are you alot of people in liverpool are.
|
|
|
Post by laura on Aug 31, 2009 20:56:28 GMT
matts wedding, when he gets married (i take things very literally so u probably already know this ) i wish, itd be cool to be mr tickle, id prefer to be able to fly tho
|
|
|
Post by boo on Aug 31, 2009 23:23:46 GMT
i'll get me hat ;D
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 1, 2009 12:53:48 GMT
nah, i'm serious, everyone's comming!... ;D
Madscot's right about the security issues... wonder if you can hire the S.A.S. by the hour?...
-m
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 3, 2009 18:30:44 GMT
Im going on another asertive course to try sort out build up of rage into criminal record any one else been on an of these courses also going to do Yoga and Tie Che just got to find my green liatard.
|
|
|
Post by andy12345 on Sept 3, 2009 19:56:48 GMT
You could ask borat, he has a lime green outfit.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 3, 2009 20:12:40 GMT
That would be very asertive yes
|
|
|
Post by boo on Sept 4, 2009 18:03:43 GMT
you know we wont get an invite, no-one will cos it'll be a shotgun wedding wont it matt (i'll get me coat again)
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 4, 2009 18:09:56 GMT
haha, very funny boo!... is that a reference to my foot by any chance?... ;D
|
|
|
Post by boo on Sept 4, 2009 18:31:58 GMT
maaaaaayyyyyyyyybe ;D
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 4, 2009 19:39:48 GMT
Is anyone here married i dont think i would like a wedding party to many people like them video on telly where they always colapse take the table out
|
|