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Post by Curiouser on Nov 29, 2009 16:16:56 GMT
I know several people with ADHD (and have a few tendencies of my own!), including a few with childhood medical diagnosis and a few who don't have an official medical diagnosis but an educational opinion. & none of them are on medication for it. & to be honest although they all struggle with concentration and organisation I don't think they need meds. They all have had some educational support (to varying degrees). So is a formal medical diagnosis necessary if the ADHD isn't causing mental health difficulties like depression? I can understand wanting some confirmation to gain some understanding in schools/uni but I'm not convinced ADHD necessarily needs treating all the time in everyone who has it. From what I've read on here most people have gone down the medical route and I wondered why people have adopted the approach they have eg. drugs/therapy/self-management/other.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 29, 2009 16:54:04 GMT
I think it varies in degrees for people, in my instance had had two big spells when it all became tooi much my head spinning losing concerntration, not being able to relax and organise self, mind very cluttered. Life all over shop, thats when finally this year i wanted to find out what causes this, and got diagnosis. It was a relief and coping better than was, as have researched adhd and put coping stratergies in but still have days when hyper and manic, so i think medication when prescribed it, will put me on a more even keel and help me rebalance things. But as say it depends on severity and individuals perception of their adhd. Thats my opinion anyway
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Post by Deleted on Nov 29, 2009 18:02:13 GMT
Hi
A fair question. Welcome and thanks for taking an interest in the forum. It sounds like your friends with ADHD are doing quite well. I think this raises the question would ADHD be so bad if we all lived in a tolerant community? Where people can work comfortably at their own pace and be rewarded for it? Where the demands of life are not so hectic and impossible? etc...etc....
I would say however that if one of your friends with ADHD ever did have a mental breakdown or if they abuse drugs or alcohol or even smoke cigarettes then a diagnosis of ADHD could prove absolutely vital. It could be the signpost to effective treatment and a happy outcome. Having ADHD also means that they are more likely to be the victims of crime or suffer from a manipulative boss or be vulnerable to crooked salespeople. Information, awareness and education on their condition could help them steer clear of these problems. Also how do you know that your friends don't have mental health problems? Before diagnosis I would say that I was happy in life just to make other people happy. Then I tried to end it all! Going down the medical route has saved my life. For other people counseling, coaching and education of the condition has worked(things that are non existent in my area).
This country is famous for its rate of suicide, drug/alcohol abuse, underage pregnancy and sex, crime and victims, unemployment, debt, obesity etc...etc... ADHD is a ?% factor in the cause. It seems such a senseless waste of life and thats why we on the forum are pushing for diagnostic services to be put in place. There is a lot of healing to be done out there. Where am I going with this? Well I hope that you find on this forum the link to the 10 Downing street petition for nhs services for ADHD to exist.
Your ADHD friends may well not require a formal medical diagnosis and if they manage life well I say good luck to them. But if they did want a diagnosis I do not believe that they should have barriers in the way.
Sorry for the long reply, there are no simple answers. Perhaps other forum members can put it into better words.
Freewill
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Post by guest also with curiosity on Nov 29, 2009 18:50:11 GMT
dear curiouser i am now curious about why you are curious. has something happened in your life that has brought this curiousity out in you? what do you class as a mental health difficulty? just depression or other things?
why do you think struggling with concentration and organisation doesn't warrant help? have you asked your several aquaintances for their input on their situations?
so many questions but that's how I gain understanding.
share your experiences as we have shared ours to give us a chance to further your understanding. my reading of this forum is support and understanding from those in a similar position.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 29, 2009 18:58:35 GMT
Donny, you're out of your element!
A lot of people think that medication and/or diagnosis is non-essential, almost an act of self-dramatisation.
Maybe your friends are doing very well. However I don't necessarily think you are in a position to know. Maybe you are, and maybe they are doing great, but in all but the last year or so of my life I played down the difficulties of having ADHD and Asperger's syndrome and played up the slapstick/flighty/"random"/frank etc parts of my personality in order to hide behind a front of being perfectly functional. Most of the time when I was clowning around, I wasn't enjoying it at all myself.
In fact, I'd go further. In all my life there have been few times that I have felt any peace of mind. Whatever I'm doing I feel I ought to be doing something else as well in order to feel settled. I cannot relax.
Impulsivity, poor concentration, disorganisation, all means that I am consistently underemployed, despite having a high IQ and a first class degree (I have never had a degree-level job). I have always needed to ask people for help with money. I have never lived in my own place, but always moved around.
It has caused untold difficulty for me and my partners in relationships. I can't listen to people for very long and need constant stimulation. Staying in and watching a DVD is torment for me.
I can't hold my tongue. That somebody is my boss doesn't matter.
But I'm going to disagree with you in any case. I personally have done a rediculous amount of research into nutritional therapy for ADHD/Asperger's and other such neurodevelopmental disorders and I know that this works. However, I can eat a gluten free, casein free, yeast and sugar and alcohol free diet for a month straight, and I will feel more settled for it, suffer fewer intrusive daydreams and not feel angry all the time for no good reason, but though I will feel peace of mind for a time when I am doing something - cooking, for exmaple, coppicing, or walking in the hills with an audiobook - I don't feel in any way settled and still have to be constantly at movement from eight in the morning until 12 at night. And besides, even when I am putting in the enormous energies required to cook and organise my day for the diet, and getting enough exercise and not drinking and all the rest of it, for one, it's a full time job just keeping my head a little calmer, and secondly, the slips are inevitable (I am still impulsive after all and it's so easy to have a couple of vodkas, a flapjack, chips or a pork pie that will knock me about for a week of angry, restless edginess with brutally intrusive daydreams).
Believe me, I'm doing everything I can, and it's still hard. And it is, literally, a full time job to do it. I am passionate about food as regards ADHD/Asperger's etc. I intend to sort myself out and help to inform others about it and campaign for food labelling and against chemicals in food and the environment that make it all so much the worse, but it does not make the problem go away and every day I could give you a lot of example of the difficulties I face even when following these other methods.
So, in answer to your question, people here are following the medical route because they are ill, suffer from a condition which may make them more creative and, sometimes, fun to be around etc etc., but which makes navigating this world so much more difficult. People who are ill take medications. This is accepted elsewhere, but so often if I tell somebody close about my problems they claim to understand them but then somehow think that I ought to pursue another course other than medication, because that is messing with nature. Nobody says this to somebody with diabetes. It would be considered offensive.
I'm sorry freewill if I come across as being a little vociferous in my response but ADHD is an illness. I certainly consider it so and experience it as such every day, and people with illnesses often resort to medication. Believe me, I have tried everything else, and a lot of it works, but it only improves things for me, it does not to any extent make it go away.
And trust me, if there was ANY way I could avoid putting chemicals into my body to try and give me some respite, I would do it however difficult it is. I do not drink caffeine, avoid alcohol when I can, and certainly take no drugs. You will find nobody less keen on medication for medication's sake. Right now though, it's the only solution I can see.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 29, 2009 19:32:32 GMT
I'm diagnosed, medicated and self managing.
I could not tell my next employer (effectively denying my diagnosis) and stop the medication and self management.
But I won't.
I have the option of going back, I can stop taking my meds when this dosage fizzles out in a few hours time.
Anyone who is satisfied undiagnosed and unmedicated has not explored those options and may be satisfied with not living to their potential.
It puzzles me that anyone would not explore the option.
Analogy - I could live without going to an optician and never know what glasses are like. They're not perfect (cost, discomfort, cleaning etc) but I can take them off whenever I like.
Have you been to the optician? Does the NHS put barriers in your way? Do people with perfect vision attack you in the Daily Mail?
Try not to over-analyse the analogy - but there are valuable parallels there.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 29, 2009 20:45:11 GMT
Don't apologize Gav, very well put. I totally agree ;D. Now that I think about it why should people walk around with a part of their brain paralyzed? Medication can help the mind do what it naturally should do although its nowhere near a cure and doesn't solve everything. And yes ADHD is first and foremost an illness or neurological condition. The first port of call should be a medical professional and its so sad that an educational opinion is considered 'good enough'. I think I would have been irresponsible if I had not pursued a diagnosis and subsequent medication. Imagine if someone didn't approach a Doctor for a heart condition! We only get one shot on this earth, surly we have an obligation to make the best of it.
What I should have said earlier is that ADHD is not trivial. I would say to our guest that these people you know with ADHD should be considered 'at risk'. At the very least a GP should be monitoring there condition. Also these people could be going around with the label of ADHD when in fact they could have something completely different. How do they know if they have no medical confirmation.
The sad thing is there is so much misunderstanding about ADHD in the medical profession. Asking for help at the moment could lead to a misdiagnosis and the wrong treatment. When you are on the right meds for ADHD however I find it reassuring that they are statistically among the safest medications available. I get no adverse effects from mine. The amount of scaremongering and misinformation over things like ritilin sickens me.
It would interest me also if our guest could tell us honestly what their perception and experience of ADHD is.
And what country they are from?
Freewill
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Post by Deleted on Nov 29, 2009 20:50:52 GMT
Sorry, making fun. Please write back. ;D
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fed up of explaining
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Post by fed up of explaining on Nov 29, 2009 22:19:38 GMT
Curiosity is fine. Judging people is not. You might be convinced that it doesn't necessarily need treating but I'm not convinced. As someone with first hand experience, I wish I had been diagnosed sooner. It has made a massive difference to me.
I'm not depressed. But I have under achieved and had difficulties.
I take meds for my adhd because they work. They help. A lot. I have tried and had some success with every possible non medicinal alternative, but none of them are nearly as helpful. On the meds I can concentrate, I can do things, finish things, remember things and experience calm. I don't have to exhaust myself trying and failing to concentrate, and I don't have to hide my real self.
There is a chemical imbalance in my brain. I take a chemical to make this right. I cannot for the life of me work out why so many people find this so interesting, controversial, or frankly any of their god damn business to spout about whether I should or not. Who are you to decide who needs meds or not, or who would benefit? I would not go back.
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Post by Curiouser on Nov 29, 2009 22:43:59 GMT
Thank you for all the thought out responses. I'm from the UK. I posted as a guest because I'm too lazy to become a member and I didn't feel it was appropriate. My post was sparked because I'm in a position where I could suggest to someone (a specific person but could apply hypothetically too) that they have ADHD tendencies and have the opportunity to referred them for further investigation (psycholigist not psychiatrist) and I was wondering about the implications of doing so. Perhaps it is a little underhanded and rude to post from a professional context but I wouldn't have done so if I didn't have personal interest. I don't view myself as having ADHD even though I have many traits, they are to a lesser extent than what I'd consider diagnosically significant but that in itself makes me curious about where we draw lines and at what point things become clinical (like with depression etc.). Whilst there is definitely a biological element there is also the social response. I would not be surprised if I carry any relevant genes (there is a strong family history of dyslexia). I am curious for a number of reasons. One being that it's a fairly anomynous name! Another being that I work in education and have seen the mixed impact ADHD (or ADHD tendencies) have on individuals. Some/most of those I come across through work and friendship groups view some of their ADHD traits as being part of their personality, both positive and negative. I think that ADHD certainly warrents understanding and support but most people I come across with ADHD receive this support from family, friends, and teaching&support staff at school/college/uni. I suppose I can understand that as people age and move away from such "safe" environments they might need support from other areas. To some extent everyone needs support from others in life. I've known few people who've taken medication and on the whole they've found it useful in the classroom but prefered not to take it. Most people I come across haven't considered medication, I don't think they'd need it although perhaps it would benefit, who am I to say. A lad I used to know did go on medication but that was because he had serious problems with lack of sleep, self-harm etc.etc. He said it helped a bit but was far from miraculous. As to what I'd class as a mental health difficulty - alsorts and everything. Anything emotional or behavioural in nature which affects a person's ability to function. That's a rushed definition so don't hold me to it too strongly! ADHD can come under that banner but I honesty think it depends on individuals. I do observe and discuss these things from time to time. So there's my sheepish response. I remain curious and confused, although a little more informed.
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Post by Curiouser on Nov 29, 2009 22:46:14 GMT
& it has occured to me that my post is a bit of a ramble and not particularly easy to follow for those of us with weak concentration spans (myself included). Oops!
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Post by Deleted on Nov 30, 2009 0:01:48 GMT
Oops, sorry freewill, and curiouser, I had intended to adress that response to freewill but didn't bother to scroll and check names cos I'd been skim reading.
Right, IMHO, if somebody shows the symptoms of ADHD and you are in a position to do so, you certainly should try to suggest to them diplomatically that they consent to a referral. If you refer somebody who does not meet the diagnostic criteria, no harm done, case dismissed, and/or one possible diagnosis of many eliminated. If you refer somebody who does meet the diagnostic criteria, great. They will then reach an understanding with the doctor as to what further course will be preferable. They will not be compulsorily medicated. What they will have is an option they were not previously aware of. You are opening up their future for them.
>> "So is a formal medical diagnosis necessary if the ADHD isn't causing mental health difficulties like depression?" <<
Absolutely. Learning about how your mind works helps you to use it, implement strategies, and whatever works, even if medication is not deemed appropriate by either parties.
Also, I strongly believe that no third party - even (perhaps especially) somebody so close as a spouse or parent - can ever determine whether somebody is suffering even acute mental distress. I hid it for years and nobody close to me had a clue in many ways. They knew I was eccentric etc etc., but people see it as part of your personality, which in some ways it is, but it is also something which is causing you a great deal of pain, and that isn't always seen.
Besides which, depression is only one form of mental suffering. I know, I have suffered it numerous times. There are many others. Chiefly, for me, is a lack of peace of mind. This is hard to evaluate, but it just means that no matter what, you feel the sky is about to fall in, you are not coping, or that no matter what you do to comfort yourself, you find no such comfort. These things cannot be seen.
Depression, besides, can occur at any time. It can occur because of a lack of fit between a personality and its surroundings. And whatever somebody with ADHD may not suffer from, and however well they may appear to be coping, people with ADHD (unless they are workaholics content to work in those very rare full-on ADHD-friendly environments like a professional kitchen) they typically suffer a lack of fit between themselves and their environment.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 30, 2009 0:06:26 GMT
Curiouser,
I will apologise again for my first respone to your question. I stand by everything in it re facts and opinions, but if there was an implication that you were a type of ADHD nay-sayer as often found, as PlanetDave suggests, in the Daily Mail and Mail-reading circles, then I think you have proved that not to be the case and I apologise.
As others have pointed out, we encouter these people very often, and it makes us mad, but if you are here to learn something, then that's great, and if only some Daily Mail columnists could astound themselves and the world by learning something, this world might be in danger of progressing somewhere and not ending up "going to hell in a handbasket" as the Mail like to tell us it is.
Who's rambling now lol
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Post by .... on Nov 30, 2009 1:15:15 GMT
Hi Curioser, There is a saying 'that the meaning of communication is the response you get' implying that each communication is not defined by what was intended by its issuer, but that it is defined by how it is recieved by the end user. If you consider that things are not always as straightforward as they seem, it becomes easier to realise that 'mental health difficulty' is something that cannot be defined by any clinical label, but something that is defined by having been experienced by an individual. To complicate matters, an ADHD trait within an individual that might seem on one day to be a blessing, might the next day feel like a disability. For example, an ability to hyperfocus to the exception of else is great, until you have a hyperglycaemic attack because you forgot to eat. I share, only occasionally severe, ADHD type tendencies with my daughter who was formally diagnosed some years ago. I find that the occasions I express these tendencies make me feel horribly vulnerable, I might be on my way to the supermarket and forget that while half way there, I might only be on the way to the fridge for milk to make tea, but when that happens and the person stood next to me still knows what task I was mid-way through and I don't it makes me feel really messed up. Doesn't seem like a big thing from the outside does it? But it stops me from feeling safe, and long term that kind of thing can matter. Along will come someone else with the same problem, and they won't be bothered at all. If you want to know one universally true thing about ADHD OR other mental health issues there is only this...... There will always be more questions than answers. But good luck figuring out all the details in between here, and there.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 30, 2009 12:55:28 GMT
hi Curiouser Sorry, for a moment I wasnt convinced that your contribution was genuine. Seeing a psychologist wont do any good. They are not able to diagnose or investigate problems, thats the job of a psychiatrist. A psychiatrist should be able to get to the very heart of the matter. Of course that would depend on wether they are Adolf Hitler(spit) or Florence knightingale. Of course what Ive just said is rubbish because every book on ADHD I read recommends seeing a neurologist or at least a specialist. I would reccommend doing more research on ADHD before approaching anyone. If you approach the wrong person without preparation it could make things worse. Many GP's simply dont believe in ADHD and will bully you out of their office(not my GP, my GP is fab). If you live in an area with specific ADHD services you might be OK. I would also say that a small percentage of people will always have an adverse effect from medication nomatter what medical condition they are being treated for. We could talk forever about the issues. The best thing to do would be to get a few books off ebay or something. If they are secondhand might not be too expensive. I made a comment about what country you are from. I was trying to think where on earth is support for ADHD so wonderful that meds or treatment are not required. Now I kind of think that these people you talk about have 'settled' for a lesser life. They have been put in their place because thats who they think they are, like what happened to me. People with ADHD deserve better! Or it could be that they have a total misconception of what ADHD is and actually have nothing of the kind. But like you said dont hold me to that too strongly. I'm just thinking out aloud. If they do have ADHD then they definatly need support and understanding. It may be that your community is such a blissful place to be and and if thats the case again I say good luck to you. Doh! To sum up, dont just take our word for it. It takes a lot of research to understand. Its not an easy subject, after all it is neurophsychiatry. If someone had offered me meds before I had done my research I would have told them to get stuffed. I'm glad that I now know better. Knowledge is power! Although sadly as you can tell from my posts......... Hungover Freewill(not from booze but from ADHD)
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Post by roland on Nov 30, 2009 14:32:20 GMT
Hi curiouser,
At first I felt annoyed when I read your post because it seemed so obvious that there's no way that anyone can know what's going on inside somebody else's mind, and no one but the individual themselves can know if they need medication or not. It's not up to anybody else to say. I wondered if you weren't being a bit patronising (and I apologise for that).
But then after I got over my knee jerk reaction, I realised that you are actually asking an interesting question and one that deserves a reply.
I have an official medical diagnosis and I have chosen to take medication, and yes I am now more productive, and understand myself better.
But the biggest benefit for me has been the lessening of an awful sense of existential loneliness that was a part of my life before diagnosis and for me that was the real, and very painful, hidden and silent impairment of undiagnosed ADHD.
I'm not talking about the loneliness that comes from not having very many friends and feeling worthless (I've felt that too), I'm talking about something far more painful, and that's the loneliness of knowing and feeling that while at core I'm like other people at the same time I knew and felt that I had a hole in my soul because I did not understand, I was not understood, and I did not feel connected in a meaningful way with others. I was alone in a world of my own.
My experience with undiagnosed ADHD (and I want to stress that this is my experience--we are all different) was very painful, almost devastatingly painful, but thanks to the resilience that ADHD sometimes brings with it, once I was diagnosed, and fully understood that I was not alone in my own world, that there were others who understood me, I began to feel hopeful, and with hope came some successes, and finally some sense of connectedness with a real world!
And, again for me that's the real benefit of diagnosis.
So I would urge you to bear in mind that while ADHD, for the sake of convenience, is defined by it's behavioural symptoms, these symptoms do not indicate the level of psychic pain that an individual may be experiencing.
And I've taken the time to describe my experience in the hope that it will help you and others, understand ADHD a bit better, and understand the value of a diagnosis.
And please refer your friend to a psychiatrist specialising in adult ADHD, not a psychologist. Psychologists are not qualified to do assessments for possible ADHD, and so unwittingly, you may only be increasing the levels of loneliness and frustration that your friend may be experiencing.
Once your friend has been assessed, whatever the diagnosis, the psychiatrist can refer your friend on to a psychologist for further help and support.
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Post by roland on Nov 30, 2009 14:38:36 GMT
btw curiouser, I hope you've seen and signed our petition ;D In some parts of the country there are no specialists to refer people to, and in other places, the waiting time for an assessment is one year! petitions.number10.gov.uk/adhdadults/
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Post by curiouser on Nov 30, 2009 17:48:58 GMT
Thanks again for all the thoughtful responses and for the apologies (although no offense was ever taken at any point).
I can only refer to a psychologist who is knowledgable and thorough and provides suitible info to act as evidence for educational support. It's worth it because it's a much quicker process than medical referal. If the person feels they'd like to pursue it then they will have that as evidence with which to approach their GP but it gives them the choice and it is their's to make not mine.
I do have knowledge of ADHD but limited knowledge on how it affects individuals in the workplace (which clearly depends) and very little knowledge of how it is dealt with medically.
I had heard that american diagnositic criteria were less astringent than european ones and was looking for european ones to compare to the american ones (which I already know). I didn't find them but was surprised when a lot of what I did find was incredibily negative and implied that medication was necessary when that contrasts with my observations. Which is part of the reason I was interested by this site for a more realistic/wholistic perspective. I'm not anti-medication but I'm not overly in favour either. I suppose I'm neutral.
I completely agree about knowledge leading to more and more questions!
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Post by roland on Nov 30, 2009 19:32:17 GMT
The DSM-IV is considered the gold standard for diagnosing ADHD not only in the US & the UK but also it is widely used around the world.
You may be confusing the DSM-IV and the ICD-10. The ICD-10 is used here in the UK (and in some European countries) to describe a group that forms a severe sub-group of the DSM-IV-TR combined subtype of ADHD. This more severe sub-group is called Hyperkinetic Disorder.
This mix-up may not be your fault, because there are some unscrupulous groups deliberately perpetuating the confusion as a way of backing up their spurious and self-serving claim that ADHD is over-diagnosed.
I will say again, Curiouser, your observations alone are not enough to judge whether or not an individual needs medication!
All of us, including you, wear masks, so you cannot know the state of somebody else's interior world from observing their outward behaviour. You cannot know, from observations alone, the level of someone else's pain.
I would have hoped that you could say you are open-minded, instead of using the more guarded term "neutral", after reading our descriptions. But maybe that's what you really meant?
Also, I wonder if you feel "neutral" about students who choose to wear glasses to help overcome eyesight deficiencies.
But anyway, Curiouser, I really do appreciate that you came to the forum and asked your questions in a polite and reasonable manner (very refreshing after some of the abuse that's thrown at us), and please feel free to ask more, and learn more about ADHD.
Oh, btw, I almost forgot to explain that ADHD is a spectrum disorder, that means that those of us who have it, have it to varying degrees, so we all need varying amounts of support (medically, psychologically, educationally, occupationally, etc.).
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Post by .... on Nov 30, 2009 20:02:22 GMT
Hey Curiouser,
I thought of a really good analogy to compare to how people make their choices about ADHD medication.
Did anyone mention to you, the documented biochemical/neurochemical differences found in the people with ADHD? Its an imbalance of levels of a neurotransmitter that people use the medication to correct.
Its kind of like, how anaemic people use Iron tablets to normalise their blood iron levels perhaps? Being anaemic makes you feel ill, but in many cases won't primarily kill you, though secondary injury is possible from anaemic symptoms (faint at the wheel of a car and see what happens etc). Iron pills can have side effects. Alot of people take iron pills, some alter their diet, and some people leave the anaemia to resolve itself. No option is better than the last. Each comes down to personal choice. Its not related to any measurement of iron levels, but to how crap or not the anaemia makes you feel, Which of the symptoms you get, how dangerous those symptoms are in context to your life etc.
Hope this helps.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 30, 2009 20:27:22 GMT
As I mentioned above I have done extensive research on nutritional/behavioural/lifestyle methods or therapy for ADHD and worked for 3 years in a residential college working with children and young adults with ADHD, Asperger's and other conditions. This college believed in "holistic" practice and used homeopathy and all manner of therapies to "help" the kids. EVeryone is welcome to their own ideas on these methods. I have my own.
Suffice it to say that despite all of this, medication continued to be administered to the students, and many of the major kick offs, breakdowns and disasters were caused by students who had reached the point of self-medication, cutting back their meds unilaterally, or doctors, who were often well-intentioned, cutting back on doses etc.
Many of the students who wished to try to cut back their medication, and who did so despite the evidence of its efficacy, did so because of well-intentioned individuals who believed that it was in some way unhealthy for them to medicate themselves with these drugs which so drastically reduced the symptoms they suffered from.
Steven Fry, who I cannot stand, did something similar when he made a three part series, ostensibly about manic depression, but actually about him and his rich celebrity friends, in which he moaned on about his existential dilemma about whether to take Lithium Carbonate. Idiot. He may have killed people with the documentary. I mean that seriously, and literally.
Medications for mental disturbance and mental illness are some of the most important medications that exist, and just because others cannot see the disturbance or are unwilling/unable to imagine themselves into it, does not mean that they may propagate ill-advised and highly naive notions about the effectiveness of holistic methods and the "uneccessary" use of medications.
On this, I am very sure. Too many people have prodded me over the years with their New Age wisdom: 'I'm staggered you put up with that. If it were me I'd go dowsing with bags of ox blood around my neck and I'd be over it in a day or two. Tops.'
These are serious conditions. I have a psych appointment tomorrow and if I even tried to describe my activities and thoughts over the last 24 hours, never mind the last few days, you'd soon find there's enough material for a novel the size of Ulysses. It is, and excuse my language, a mammoth headfuck. And I would also like to second all of Roland's comments re existential loneliness etc.
No. If holistic practices and nutrition etc. were a solution to this problem I would know about it.
As it happens, I do know for a fact that nutrition is a very very good solution for a huge number of people, but I won't have anybody for a second nod their head and coo that "ah, there it is you see, I said so" because first of all the nutrition is no short cut, and any meaningful nutritional strategy is organisationally complex and beyond the means of many sufferers, secondly it involves incredible resolves of will power and a large investment of energy, and, thirdly, though I have been doing it for years and know a lot about it, and though it has helped me in ways I would struggle to explain to anybody, it still hasn't wholly delivered peace of mind, clarity, or a relent to that existential loneliness. I still want and need medication and diagnosis. Nobody could know how much I need that but the people on this site. And I am well-balanced, content with myself and who I am, I have a trillion strategies to help me etc. Still I need it.
Anyway, there it is. For me complementary therapies exist to complement and not stand alone. If they give succour to people, that's great, but I have met a lot of flower balm pushers and you really wouldn't want to start me off on that...
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Post by .... on Nov 30, 2009 20:42:07 GMT
EDIT Should have read 'no option is better than the 'others''.
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Post by Curiouser on Nov 30, 2009 21:49:38 GMT
The spectrum point is excellent. & I will admit I tend to come across the milder end of the spectrum.
I think I view ADHD meds the same way I view depression meds - helps the chemical inbalance sometimes but aren't for everyone and shouldn't be considered a be all and end all.
Thanks for clearing up the diagnostic confusion Roland.
And chrysallis - your iron analogy was excellent and I think is similar to (but better than) the depression analogy I was trying and failing to clarify in my head. I shall remember that one.
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Post by roland on Dec 1, 2009 0:18:38 GMT
I'm puzzled; why are you so sure that you are encountering people at the milder end of the spectrum? Maybe you could clarify that for us? You might also want to clarify why we should care how you view ADHD meds? Because we already know only too well that meds are not the only answer, and for some not the answer at all! But for most of us, unfortunately, it's the only answer that's available right now (you might like to help us change that situation by signing the petition petitions.number10.gov.uk/adhdadults/, and get your friends to help as well) Now, I'm going to ask you to reread what everyone here has said to you, and this time really pay attention to what we're saying; try and understand what life is like for us! And now here's one final word from me on this subject: Now I'm not looking for absolution Forgiveness for the things I do But before you come to any conclusions Try walking in my shoes Try walking in my shoes
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Post by andy12345 on Dec 2, 2009 1:27:35 GMT
No one understands depression unless they have it. No one understands ADHD unless they have it. No one understands internal turmoil unless they have it and even then it can't be fathomed into the exactly same level of torture. No understands overly sensitive stress responses unless they have them. It goes on with Anxiety disorders, social, schizophrenia, psychosis. etc etc.
An ill animal will usually hide itself as a defence measure. There is no real difference for humans. Someone may act happy but in fact may just be a shell of a person with minimal connection to society or the world.
Whether I truly have ADHD or not is still questionable but I seem to fit, but then that's what differential diagnoses etc are for.
In the USA Ritalin has been prescribed for about 50 years for Hyperkinetic disorder, the severe full symptoms of ADHD especially driven like a ferrari.
Maybe it should be Dopamine efficiency/impairment syndromer? With that, you can explain a lot of things in one list.
Anyway, just my 1 penny worth. __________________________
In agreement with Curioser who wrote...
Until the exact deficiency is rectified with the correct dose, the problem does not go away. I mean everything in the human body is dynamic and scales to the situational demand.
So, more effort requires more materials. Also, I don't believe that a 50 year old drug is able to directly target the whole issue therefore I do believe that in the future, a nearer optimum may be achieved with a smaller quantity of multiple complementary drugs.
The trouble is that human bodies are just very complicated. If you can treat the symptoms and the person thrives LIKE with thyroid issues or adrenal issues, great.
If it works, without too much side effect, why worry?
Ramble off/
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