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Post by Wavey75 on Aug 26, 2014 17:40:47 GMT
My 19 year old daughter is now at the 7 months pregnant mark, single with no relationship prospects or source of income and no qualifications beyond BTEC’s from school.
She has just been given a 2 bedroom flat for her and the baby to live in and she is planning to spend much of her time with us, as this flat is a short walk away from us.
My problem or worries are that I had a huge problem with this pregnancy in the first place. She tried 2 or 3 birth control types when she became sexually active and because she had difficulties with them she decided or stopped trying with it altogether.
So, when she found out she was pregnant (at about 5 weeks) she had a choice, take the morning after pill or have the baby. So, when faced with this decision, in my opinion, when she chose to keep the baby and that abortion is murder, she chose everything that came with it, e.g. “you’ve made your bed, now lie in it.”
My problem is that I am very clumsy, accident prone and absent minded and I have made it clear that I do not want to be responsible for a fragile (I know they can be tougher than tonker toys), helpless baby.
Also, I feel nothing towards it, nothing at all. And my wife is saying that I’m pushing everyone away because all they want to talk about is baby, baby, baby and I’m fed up with it and have zero interest in discussing a baby of any kind. When I came along my eldest was 9, the other 2 were 6/7 and 3 years old, so I never experienced babies, I had always assumed it was because I had not had one myself and that men just don’t feel like that towards babies, but when they’re big enough to respond to you and play with you boys or girls, then I’m interested.
So my question is, just what the fuck is wrong with me?
Am I still so angry that my daughter decided to choose the life on benefits street rather than go out and get a future with qualifications and a husband or wife?
Why does my wife look at me like I’m an Alien from another planet when I say I don;t want to do anything with it until it’s old enough, say 6 months or older, etc.
I’ve also said that I’m worried about it picking up my bad habits and I would prefer to distance myself in it’s early life as I don’t ant anyone to have to struggle as hard as I have had in my life.
Wavey75
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Post by shapes on Aug 26, 2014 22:00:34 GMT
Babies aren't very interesting and very demanding and men don't have the same hormones that make women like them.
I wouldn't be too happy with that situation either.
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Post by Wavey75 on Aug 26, 2014 23:02:08 GMT
Thank Shapes, but fathers and grandfathers can still want to hold the baby or play with the baby? I'm not interested at all until it's of an age where it can stand on it's own 2 feet and walk away or towards me and be able to talk and play independently (I mean, without all that baby talk and repeating yourself in that annoying tone of voice that parents often do.)
Is it an ADHD thing to not be interested? I know it's a male thing to not be interested, so if both of these statements are accurate ,then it's no wonder I'm so against doing anything with the baby, because I' an adult man with ADHD, which would explain my total lack of interest in anything to do with this bloody baby.
Now, teaching it maths, woodworking, reading or other things like that, I'm well up for, but this whole baby phase - I would rather go and stay elsewhere until it passes to be completely honest!
Wavey75
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Post by shapes on Aug 27, 2014 7:12:12 GMT
It's an ADHD thing to struggle to "show interest" in something you aren't interested in.
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Post by blaze on Aug 27, 2014 7:35:29 GMT
At five wks its nolonger the morning after pill, its the abortion pill. Preventing an embryo implanting and aborting afe v different things to sm people.
Is she choosing a life on.benefits st?? Why cant she have a child while young then get qualifications etc, iv known several who have. If a parent said these things to me id be v hurt and angry.
my oh had no interest in babys until ours arrived, dispite my array of friends los through our house, when he held ours he was a natural from day one, maybe this can happen.w granddathers also.
I agree w pp that its tough to have interest in things that dont catch us, but family wd find it painful and take it as lack of support and care so you.might want.to think about how that cms accross to them. Is there any part of it you can be interested in? Building a cot or decorating the room etc?
While i wd be utterly devastating if one of my.kids came hm pregnant at a young age i wd support them 100%.
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Post by Wavey75 on Aug 27, 2014 10:53:37 GMT
It wasn't 5 weeks then, she could take a pill that has 2 parts, with the 2nd to be taken 48 hours after the first, I think this pill can be taken up to the 28th day? something like that, but it's the point that she chose this path.
I haven't said she's choosing a life on benefits because there's no point, she will not hear it, so there's no point in trying.
In my opinion yes she is choosing a life on benefits, because there are people out there with post graduate qualifications who are finding it tough to get a job, 1000's of financial professionals that lost their jobs in the melting pot that was our economy in 2010 who are still unemployed or who work 2 or more jobs to stay afloat.
Why on earth would anyone choose to start their life as an adult with a noose around their neck?
If you wanted to boil water, you would use a pot or heat proof container, because that's the sensible way to do it. If you are at the start of your life and have a choice, to have a child or not to have a child, then the simplest, sensible and most responsible choice is not to have a baby at that time.
It is my opinion that she is wrong about going into work full time once the baby is born. This is counter productive because your earnings aren't yours because you are essentially working to pay for someone else to look after your child, so why work at all when you could be at home with your child and be financially better off and qualify for financial assistance with further education and gain qualifications while your child is growing up, so that by the time your child starts school full time, you are then desirable to employers because you have recent qualifications and you have worked your arse off by doing this all while you have raised a baby and run a household.
This is what I have tried to encourage but she will not accept this, she thinks she can go and get a job that will sustain her and the baby and pay for all the holidays she wants and still find the money to look after the cat, the dog and the turtle tanks she has. She needs a reality check, but she turns off when I speak to her about this kind of thing, it's what she does when I'm right - it's what she does whenever any of us are telling her one of her decisions don't make sense, she just switches off, learns the hard way then 6 months later when it all goes tits up, we all say told you so and she she no one said anything, vicious circle that only she can fix as we've tried and tried until we're blue in the face.
Blaze, you've hit the nail right on the head, my family think I am not supporting her, which is why I've come here to my support group to discuss if I have a problem or if it's explained by my se and ADHD, which I'm thinking it is. I support her in the way I would support any member of my family. I have made appointments for her with the usual agencies for her to go onto the system to get a home for her and the baby, all that red tape and bureaucracy really confuses her and I'm rather good at it. Finance, I'm bloody Gandalf the white when it comes to planning money in excel, creating forecasts, suggesting budgets, disposable income plans, compound interests savings, etc. I;m completely self taught and I've had comments from bank staff in situations where for example my oldest was looking at a mortgage and wanted me there, I had to explain some of the things I was looking for to her and the mortgage advisor, that felt wicked.
Buying things for the baby and all that stuff, she has everything and has had for months, it's madness! I don't see why buying all this crap now is essential, but they've been going out and buying more and more of it - cute little outfits, wipes by the tonne and even toys! iit's total madness!
I get there's going to be some 'nesting' going on, but not before she even has a nest!
It really winds me up that she does this and won't listen to logic and resin, and still goes steam rolling into it, but the only way I have found in the past to deal with this is to just "let go" which kind of detaches me from it completely and this might also be contributing to my lack of interest, as well as already having low interest because of being male and having ADHD, add this lot together and I think i've answered my own question as to why I'm not at all interested.
Now my question is why can't I fain (pretend) interest?, because I'm convinced I won't ever be interest in a baby, toddler that's a sponge for knowledge and who ask questions, now that's what I'm looking forward to, shaping a young mind with knowledge, learning creativity and languages, I've got loads of foreign languages here ready for us to listen too together, also got an Electric Guitar to plug into the play station and Rocksmith to learn to play, and I'm going to get an electric drum kit for more learning, but together.
I'm also an engineer and I like building things, so I will get Meccano if he shows an interest (by the way, it's going to be a boy) and he's due end of November. If he wants to play with dolls for more feminine toys I have no objections, but I won't be including myself because it doesn't interest me.
Wavey75
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Post by contrarymary on Aug 27, 2014 12:28:02 GMT
i don't think it's adhd. i think it's a combination of views and anger and disappointment and perhaps hurt.
your daughter has made a mistake, and a choice. the mistake was becoming pregnant the choice was to keep the baby. keeping the baby was not a mistake.
i wonder if your disappointment (and anger) at her mistake, your disappointment with her situation, your concern and care for her becoming a parent so young have all got tangled and stuck. it seems as tho you still want/ need to be heard. clearly you disagree with the choice your daughter made months ago to keep the baby. your disagreement is not news - the rest of the family know that you disagreed with her choice.
no-one actually wanted her to become pregnant, they are letting go of what might have been and dealing with what is, the situation as it is right now. they are not condoning her mistake, but supporting her in her choice as she begins a new life as a parent. when you state and act out your disagreement it isolates you from the rest of the family, who are trying to support her.
perhaps it is time to let go of your anger and disappointment that she became pregnant and chose to keep the baby. your anger will not change the situation, will be a load for you to carry and will only damage your relationships within the family. if someone is always angry they are seldom heard and rarely sought out for advice.
we are not our children and we cannot control their lives, however much we might like to at times. it was her choice to make, and it is her life she is shaping. you can choose how you respond, the time, care or support you will offer her. you cannot choose for her, only advise and encourage and hope that each time she will have more knowledge and make wiser choices. that is the role of a parent.
of course she is making mistakes, she is a teenager. we all make mistakes, and more so in our teens because we do what we know and when we know better we do better. of course she is trying to nest and celebrate the baby - that's what almost everyone does. once the baby has arrived she will have the hard work and this time of preparation, of waiting to become a mother, will never come again.
you can choose to celebrate with her and let her know that she is loved, forgiven, that it is not what you would have chosen for her or for the family but you will support her (emotionally, with your time and skills and attention rather than financially) as she grows into becoming a parent herself. she will grow up a lot over the next year and will need guidance and support as she does so.
it's not ideal but it is what it is. we all make mistakes. we hope that we will be forgiven, forgive ourselves and learn to do better next time. and if we hope that for ourselves, how much more do we hope it for our children.
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Post by DKL - darkknightslover on Aug 27, 2014 15:12:11 GMT
There are so many negatives that you are focussing on. I agree with the reasonings, but lets have a look at the positives;
Your daughter will have a lot of energy to keep up with her growing child.
You will have more energy now to keep up with your grandchild.
Your daughter is getting a roof over her head. It's also not too far away from familial support.
You have a good enough relationship with her for her to be able to ask you for help. Maybe offer something other than babysitting services? Sounds like your other half has that taken care of anyway. You can offer organisation and financial planning/advice.
Babies are boring? Every child is different. You can't really judge until the child arrives. But generally from about 6 months old those terrified of breaking baby become less so.
In all honesty I think you're finding it difficult to empathise with your daughter. Everybody is in a hurricane of emotions and preparations and all of that is whirling together in a big storm pot of .... (Hmmm what to call it..) "an interesting situation which is "fun and games" for all".
Don't forget that emotions have their own value too; it's not just about the practicalities and to-do's. if your daughter had chosen to end her pregnancy, there would have been a potential emotional price to pay then too. She evidently felt it was too much for her. There are many women out there who are emotionally scarred from terminations. There are also women who aren't. It is a decision only the person carrying the baby can make as the emotional value attributed to each decision will be different.
As to her future, the positive side of her having her child now is that she has an opportunity to learn about the world in a different way (as a parent and through her child's eyes), and another reason to motivate her to do well in anything she chooses to do. She has the opportunity to find out what she really does value in life and what she wants to do with it. As someone with children and BTechs, there is likely to be funding an support for adult learning that she can take advantage of. Not to mention the friends she has the opportunity to make of different ages through schools and parent groups now. She will have a lot more maturity and sense of self than someone the same age as her in a few years time.
As for paying for child support when she is working/learning, look into what the tax credits and other support out there. Also don't forget the intrinsic value of the experience of work, it's not just going to be about the money. Your daughter may need something that gives her a sense of purpose in the adult world. She will also be building friendships and experience for work later on.
On top of all of that, a child is a barrier to less responsible men who might otherwise want to take up with your daughter. Not all of them, granted, but it I something that will make them pause for thought!!
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Post by Wavey75 on Aug 27, 2014 17:15:26 GMT
Hi ContraryMary,
you are right about how I feel and I have a;ready admitted that a part of this could well be as you describe my anger and disappointment all tangled up with my feelings regarding the baby, but I must make one correction, she didn’t make the mistake of getting pregnant on her own, it takes two to tango and to lay the blame solely at any girl’s feet is wrong. The father in this case said from the very start “don’t have it, don’t want nothing to do with it” which I respect as it’s honest.
As far as I;m concerned I thought I had let go of my anger. I’ve seen the ultra sound pictures and I can’t see a baby anywhere, the most recent one I could make out a baby shaped cloud, but so what, big deal, it’s still not a baby until it’s born - that’s my view and nothing will change that ever. you are entitled to disagree, as does my wife and daughter, but my view still stands it’s an embryo until it’s born and that’s all I intend to say about it.
The only anger I feel about this situation is her total pig-headedness when it comes to reason and logic concerning what comes after the baby’s born, as I’ve already detailed above.
I stated my opinions very early on and it was made clear to me that they were not shared, so I keep my mouth shut and I do not participate in any baby related conversations.
I’ve already detailed how I am supporting her, which is no different than how I would support her if she was married with a professional career, to use an old fashioned example.
Celebrate? Forgiven? WTF? - completely lost here.
Most of what you’ve written is what I already know and reads like a lot of that touchy-feely stuff that councillors spout off at you when there’s really nothing else to be said, etc. (sox, ContraryMary, but it’s how it sounds to me)
At the beginning I told her that it wa her decision wether or not to have the baby and that I would tell her how I felt when she made her decision, so as I didn’t influence her decision as she had a few days to decide. When she decided to keep it, I told her that I was 50:50 split on the idea - half of me wanted her to terminate, go travel, see the world, get an education and live her live, while the other half wanted to experience the grandparent days while still young enough to be active with a young child, but I was never interested in baby’s - I had no idea that every conversation in this house is about the baby - it’s like a bloody obsession, it’s like mateo have released the latest barbie and the catalogue of accessories are out so they gotta go out and buy them, just for the sake of hainvg them!
Hi DKL,
I think I’ve replied to most of what you have said. The things I want to reply to you’ve said are:
Focusing on negatives in life is what I do in ALL situations, I;m never let down if I;m right and if I’m wrong it’s bonus! Babies to me all look the same, they all eat, sleep, shit and make a shit load of noise - thank god I have a shed lol. I accept that she will have the opportunity the learn while she is raising a child of her own, but not if she is working full time, which is what I’m so frustrated with her for, she thinks that she can get a full time job and rely on others to help look after the baby while she works, but in reality the DWP will not accept us looking after him, so she will have the only option of paying a child minder, and she will have to pay them unto an extra 2 hours more than she works everyday to allow time for her to finish work and collect him and vice versa. Because she has no experience, qualifications above BTEC firsts and no savings, if she gets a full time job she will most likely be stuck wiring 40 hours a week eating not much over minimum wage.
With bills and rent to pay on top of this, and the income from child benefit and working tax credit, any money left will go towards paying for childcare. The government are very keen to get single out of work parents into work, so as an incentive they offer childcare vouchers while you work, but these vouchers can only be used to pay licences, qualified services, which cost more and these vouchers don’t pay for everything, only for 60% of the costs.
Oh yeah and I forgot, that’s only for up to the 1st 12 months of returning to work, then that financial support is gone.
If she does distance learning while he’s growing up, she’ll have years of training by the time he’s at school full time, leaving her opportunities much wider as she could work full time in a job that’s also term time or a job that has flex hours, meaning she doesn’t pay for child support at all as he’l be at school and because she would have qualifications her earnings would be higher than the national wage.
My problem here is, she will not accept this is being the situation, she won’t explain why this is not what she wants to do, only that this is not an option and that she will be going straight into work, full time after the baby’s born. This is madness, but I haven’t mentioned it again.
I’ll keep keeping my big fat yap shut and I haven’t had much of anything to discuss with her over the last 4 or 5 months, but that’s better than it used to be, as before my diagnosis, we would both clash and row a lot, but since my concerts I have been able to control myself and when she gets on one of her rants, her mother deals with it, which is best for everyone all round as I have a temper and I can be mean, never physical, always verbally. I’ve been labelled acid-tongue once or twice.
Wavey75
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Post by blaze on Aug 27, 2014 17:21:02 GMT
The morning after pill.can only be taken upto 72 hrs after dtd. The other two part pill is the abortion pill and sm people have v strong feelings about abortion and dont see it as a choice.
When i said support i meant emotional support, this is what counts.
Maybe you.need to see things from a different perspective, maybe graduates struggling to get jobs is a sign pushing children into choosing a career defining degree is a system tgat is failing. Maybe its those who take the time to figure our what they are gd at prior to uni who will thrive, or those who choose on the job qualifications who will win out in this economy. Maybe working will mean your dd finds a passion that leads to a career or maybe paying for a child will mean she thinks practicaly and chooses to learn a trade.
If you are worried for her, disappinted, etc then thats understandable but maybe worth figuring out how to commincate that because claiming she doesnt listen.because you are right (how can anyone.be 'right' about anothers life?) or that the baby she obviously wants and is happy about will be a noose around her.neck will hurt her and not help your feelings be heard.
Babys are incredible, what they can teach us is beyond measure. While intetacting w toddlers is amazing most of their most efficiant and productive learning isnt actualy taight by us but is more about their discoveries, being along for the ride is pretty incredible though. Do you have support for you? A councilor or friend you cd ofload these difficult feeling w to allow you to be more present for your family?
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Post by Wavey75 on Aug 27, 2014 18:08:33 GMT
Hi Blaze,
Ok, so it’s an abortion pill she had the choice of, fine, but I’ll never see it as anything other than “her choice”, so agree to disagree.
Emotional support, I don’t understand my own emotions at the best ofttimes, so offering it out is like asking me what the Chinese guy just said in Mandarin - I don’t speak Mandarin.
Who said anything about a career defining degree, or any degree for that matter? a Higher Education Diploma can be good enough for any office job where your not passed over for advancement in the workplace due to lack of academic qualifications, etc.
I’ not pushing her towards this path, but she has a responsibility to provide for her family now and some kind of formal qualification provides the most opportunities, even with the many graduates out there who are unemployed or doing jobs that aren’t in their field of study.
My argument her is one of economics. Would you pay £500 for a sofa now that you can use for 12 months and then it will fall apart? Or, you could wait and use these chairs for less, but after a 3 years your new sofa will be £100?
Obviously the 2nd deal is the better one and so the right one. The right choice for her to make is to get qualifications while her child is growing up so that when he starts school she has the ability and potential to provide finical and emotional support because she won’t be struggling to get by, like she would if she goes straight into work after the baby’s born.
Yes I’m worried for her. I’m not disappointed with her, she’s made her choice, but I would expect her to make the most of her situation and not to make decisions that will make her already difficult path harder than it needs to be.
Figure out how to communicate what to her blaze?
She doesn’t listen to the words coming out of my mouth, even though she’s still sat there. This is a problem she has had for many years and it’s from the past, where prior to diagnosis and treatment I would repeat myself saying the same things over and over again without realising it, but now I do much better because of my concerts, but she still sees me as the same old lecturer, so I lave these conversations for her to have with her mother alone, that way I’m not hindering the outcome of any practical advice, advice that she will still ignore and won’t explain why.
Anyone can be right bout another’s life if that person is in the wrong, for example committing murder is wrong and they are judged in our society by others. An extreme example but you did pose the question how can someone be right about someone else and here’s your answer.
I haven’t told her anything of what I have written here regarding my negative thoughts, feelings and comments with one or two exceptions such as when I revealed how I felt about the baby in the beginning and I have told everyone that I am not a baby person and I am worried I will accidentally drop / scald / forget about or cut the baby through some clumsiness or just carelessness and so it’s better that I have no contact until the baby is old enough to walk to me and walk away, etc.
I have no councillor or friend I can talk to locally, no Blaze. I refer to this forum as my group. It’s the place I go to discuss my problems and things like this where I’m stuck and I don;t see what the problem is and it’s helped me so, so much. I have my final degree assignment to complete in 6 weeks and then I start my learning all about ADHD course (I’ve got like 13 books to go through)
I’m hoping by the end of reading my ADHD literature I will understand me more, then I can hopefully make improvements, but until then I’ll have to wait.
I think I’ve pretty much worked it out, I;m male, I have DHD and this explains why I;m just not interested in anything baby-related. There maybe some part that’s anger and disappointment like ContraryMary suggested (quite insightful by the way), but I will not hold him responsible, so eventually that will disappear as I interact with him, but I intend to make as am nay excuses as I can so as not to say what’s in my head which is “No, take him away form me please, not interested, busy!” or some other comments that will cause uproar and upset.
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Post by blaze on Aug 27, 2014 18:23:05 GMT
Communicate your feelings rather than your judgements, which is all thats coming accross right now. Try non violent communication. z
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Post by Wavey75 on Aug 27, 2014 20:22:12 GMT
Hi Blaze,
Don;t know how I feel about it, or much else for that matter. I feel let down and disappointed that she's made the decisions she has made and frustrated that I don't understand why she won't hear my advice, but I can't communicate any of that - her mother has pretty much done that already.
Wavey75
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Post by petra on Aug 27, 2014 22:04:02 GMT
Wavey75, I have nothing useful to add, other than that in your shoes I suspect I'd feel exactly the same...and I'm female...The whole thing would seriously do my head in. It's good that you have your own things (degree etc..) which you can immerse yourself in. I remember when I was little and my aunt had a baby...everybody was all over it...whilst I was out the back teaching my aunts's dog tricks! And when my grandmother said in a very disapproving way that I'd rather be with the dog than the new baby I thought 'well...yeah...I would!'. I haven't changed much...I'm still hugely more gooey over animals than babies!
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Post by shapes on Aug 27, 2014 22:07:08 GMT
I think over time you'll feel less upset.
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Post by blaze 2 on Aug 27, 2014 22:12:17 GMT
most people need to voice their feelings to help them manage them, most of us do it over and over again because the need to be heard is such a big thing and for many being heard helps us feel supported in what we feel, more comfortable with what we feel, more connected to what we feel and more connected to other people, less alone with what we feel.
for example you cd say - i feel upset you will have to deal with such a difficult thing so young, thats not what i wanted for you and not what i worked hard to give you opportunitys for- i feel sad you will miss out on the freedom of being young- when you dont listen to my advice i feel scared you dont realise how much of a struggle this will be for you- when you dont take my advice i feel helpless- i feel scared we will loose our connection because i am not good with babies- i am worried you will regret the path your life takes- when you dont see my point of view i feel powerless- when you dont share my view that an education is most important i feel like you dont understand where im coming from and it feels like iv failed to pass down the values that are important to me- when you dont find my advice helppful i feel unimportant to you and thats loney- im worried we will loose our common ground because i dont get baby stuff and i have never brought up babies so dont have anything to bond with you over that period of your childs life- jst for example
there is no right or wrong decsion, if you want her to hear how you feel then you have to accept that her feelings, her perspective need to be heard by you also, not dismissed by telling her its the wrong way. she will have to find her own right way, part of which maybe that she has different values from you and feels confident that being a gd mum is possible even if fincaialy shes scraping by. my degree for example was a waste of time and money, i ended up working in the care sector, w kids in care and in mh and a literature degree was a waste, plus it got me in debt because i didnt have anyone to pay for me and i generaly hated uni, it was smwhere my adhd made me feel inaddaquate where as in work its been an asset, i wd have been much better off working for a few yrs then getting a degree relevant to my career in an area i felt connected to like occupational therapy etc. especially when it comes to care sector theres on the job qualifications that have to be done by everyone anyways, even those who have phds, and lots of other sectors prefer on the job work experience before qualifications- like trades and lots of law sectretorys work there way up while their employers foot the bill rather than rely on uni students who may like the theory of being a solisitor but wd fail to manage the 80 odd hr wks and layer apon layer of boring paper work
try reading non violent communication, it helps alot with relationship stuff. her having different ideas from you isnt a rejection of how you have parented or a dismissal of what youv worked for, its jst that she has a different way of seeing things.
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Post by Wavey75 on Aug 27, 2014 22:16:05 GMT
Thank you Petra, that makes me feel much more human than I did and less A.I. than I suspected.
Shapes, I will feel 100% less upset, because I;m not upset now. I was pissed off with her decision, but it's taken me a long time to accept that it's her decision, not mine. I;m no longer upset about any part of it, I;m concerned that my family think of me like some sort of Android because I;m so not interested in anything baby related, and I could not care less about the while subject.
I've told them all that I've asked around in my 'group' and I've had some surprising responses, but the outcome appears that my lack of interest is down to being male, having ADHF and somewhere in there is residual anger towards her regarding her future, but it will pass, just as my anger regarding her stupid decision to have a baby.
Wavey75
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Post by blaze on Aug 27, 2014 22:25:36 GMT
arse jst lost a reply...
most people need to communicate how they feel directly because the need to be heard is jst such a big thing to most, many will discuss the same feelings over and over, its how people manage how they feel and connect with the support of others
for example maybe you cd say- when you dont listen to my worries i feel scared your not taking this seriously - when you dont share my perspective i feel like your rejecting the values i had passed down to you- when you dont take my advice i feel useless- i am scared we will loose our bond because i dont get babies and because iv never had one i feel helpless- for example
there is no real right way, she has to find her own right way and that may involve different ideas from you, different ways of doing things, different perspectives, different values, none of which means shes rejecting your parenting or dismissing the importantce of what youv worked hard for, jst because your ideas are right for you doesnt mean they are for her.
i was made to feel like i had to get a degree, dispite my adhd and disgraphia i have a high iq and had gd grades and it was jst what i was told wd happen my whole life. my degree is entirely irrelevant to the area i worked in, it hasnt helped, because i already have a degree i dont qualify for funding for a different one, relevant to the areas i worked in, and it was a miserable experience that i ended up in debt for. there is not one straight forward path for everyone. cd you do smthing together thatd help her with the baby? like take her along to your local sure start centre to find out about mums and baby groups, the free classes (parenting classes, infant first aid, sm gcses and a levels smtimes)
hope it gets easier with time
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Post by Wavey75 on Aug 27, 2014 23:35:39 GMT
Hi Blaze,
I've tried re-phrasing things to her over the years in many different ways, but it all leads down the same path - she switches off and says I;m lecturing, dictating or just refuses to listen because it's something she doesn't want to hear about. For example, she has had a relationship with a boy for over 4 years, she moved out of this house to live with her father because we didn't support the long distance relationship as he was some stranger who happened across her facebook and added her, this led to him visiting, her sleeping with him and when her father kicked her out of the unconverted garage she was forced to live in after he moved from a house where she had a bedroom to a smaller house where she lived in a garage, when she came to live with us (because she had no choice) we said this boy could stay for a few mights with her and all they did was fight and argue, all this boy ever does is manipulate her by telling her how she should think and she feeds on it, it's madness.
When she moved in with him at the end of October last year, by January this year she was begging to move back home because he had verbally, physically and sexually abused her, less than 3 months later, she's back in a relationship with him, only this time she's a couple of months pregnant and planning on raising this baby with him as he's sterile, allegedly.
Yes there's a right way and a wrong way for everyone. There's always a starting point and a destination, A to B. no matter what route is taken, you will always start form A and arrive at B. But choices are reduced based upon many varying factors, not all paths are open to everyone. So, if all paths are closed except one, that's the right one. if all are closed except 3 paths, then it's a process of elimination - which ones the best fit, the more expensive one? the quickest one? the safest one? the one that ticks all the boxes,? etc. you get the idea that by weighing things up it filters away any paths that are unsuitable, or another phrase would be that they are wrong.
I wanted all 3 of my children to go to university, get a degree in anything I told them, so long as you get a degree. I have had managers in IT who are managers not because they know what they are doing, or because they are so technically skilled or minded, but because they had a degree - one of which had an English language degree and he was the manager of the help desk, mad, but the way large companies and the public sector behave.
So far 2 out of 3 have passed on university and it looks like youngest is also going to follow her sisters in that regard, but I've come to terms with it. I respect that your university experience was not all parties and glamour and that you say it was not enjoyable, but that path is not for everyone.
With the Open University, you can get an open degree, which is 60 points less than a BA or a BSc and it's in a 2nd subject, so you have a major and a minor, sort of like 2 thirds qualified in one and a 3rd in another subject. That's all you need really, plus it doesn't limit you to just one subject which makes it versatile and flexible to suit most needs.
The idea of participating in some sort of mum to be club or coffee morning is nauseating to me - I find the conversations about baby merchandise annoying enough without having to hear it in 12.1 surround sound! lol
Having no idea what a sure start centre was, I googled it and found one in my area. The information i read about this tells me it's for after the baby's born and to be fair her mother will be more excited about attending this kind of thing with her, so it would be best of I didn't step on anyone else's toes - highly convenient that is too!
I was a qualified red cross first aider (expired now) and I know my daughter is interested in training to be a medical practitioner of some sort, from paramedic to a doctor, so heath wise I think we'll be covered.
It will get easier with time, but that time is like 2 years away from now and it's getting harder and harder to ignore the IQ reducing baby talk, I feel myself getting dumber whenever I end up trapped within earshot of these conversations about baby names, baby clothes, baby, baby, baby, blah, blah, blah!
And the worst thing is my fab Bose super-comfortable in-ear earphones are falling apart, so soon I'll have nothing to help me tune out the white noise :-(
Wavey75
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Post by DKL - darkknightslover on Aug 28, 2014 15:10:26 GMT
If she is interested in getting into a healthcare career, there is nothing better than volunteering/working as a first Aider or in a care environment. She has a couple of months to get some initial training and friend making done if she wants to get into volunteering, the there is another source of support there too - as well as so,etching constructive to do in her spare time with the running of the unit. I say this as a first Aider myself.
A degree isn't everything, which I know you will know anyway. However if she were to get a job as a health care assistant at a local hospital or care home she might get funded for NVQ and/or nurse training (which now requires a degree, but more likely to happen at a hospital). I'm sure there are other places that invest in their employees too, but if she already has the interest then getting her hands dirty on the wards (and with potential for on-site child care as well depending on the hospital) then It is a pretty good option!!
Does your daughter have ADHD too? If she does, or if there are suspicious but it is an issue, chances are she might also have dyslexia or something similar. She can get learning support just from the dyslexia (helpful, but not quite as effective as help with both the dyslexia and ADHD combined).
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Post by Wavey75 on Aug 29, 2014 11:24:28 GMT
Hi DKL,
I don't know what the situation is in other parts of the UK, but here for volunteering there are too many and lots of waiting lists for a spot to volunteer in the NHS, the local council and other desirable areas.
Healthcare worker roles are like school positions - the are gold-dust in Devon. There was a position for a receptionist in a local school here and there were 6,000 applicants for it. At one point (2000-2005 approx.), Paignton in Devon had the highest number of teenage pregnancies in the UK.
She has had treatment for anger & depression and during her self harm phase, she discovered she had anxiety issues. Personally, I do think she does suffer with some sort of neuro diversity, but suggesting it starts rows between my wife and I and as I've already said she just doesn't hear what I say concerning her life, so I don't say it anymore, not since I developed the skill of 'letting go" thanks to my Concerta XL.
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Post by petra on Aug 30, 2014 0:41:43 GMT
most people need to voice their feelings to help them manage them, most of us do it over and over again because the need to be heard is such a big thing and for many being heard helps us feel supported in what we feel, more comfortable with what we feel, more connected to what we feel and more connected to other people, less alone with what we feel. This is sooo true.
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Post by .... on Sept 2, 2014 1:08:23 GMT
The upset about not being able to communicate and be heard, the upset about not having life choice advice taken, the upset about whether your reaction to the baby is deemed appropriate, and the worrying about how well you will cope around a tiny baby, are four separate worries. If it was me and I thought about them all together they would drive me nuts.
I have known very many men who don't consider babies real until they are born and can see them with their own eyes - this correlates with the number of nurseries decorated in last minute panic by stressed out fathers I think lol. And I have known quite a few people male and female who can't get interested in babies until their personalities start to show, or until they are old enough to play. I think it is okay to feel some apathy to all the cutesy baby stuff.
Don't be surprised if you feel differently once baby arrives though, other people's babies are not as interesting to watch as the babies in your family when it comes down to it.
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Post by Wavey75 on Sept 2, 2014 11:51:04 GMT
Hi Chrysallis,
What really worries me is that I;m right about my opinion changing when the baby does come. I know I'm right because I have no interest in babies, they're hard work and you get nothing back IMHO. When you can interact with the and watch them learning and making choices and decisions, now that's very interesting, but years away from this point in my life.
I've been told al my life "Other people's babies are never as interesting as when it's your own..." - which also drives me up the wall!!! if I thought my opinion would change if it was my own, I'd say it for myself.
Unfortunately, I know me better than anyone else in this regard and knowing me, I'm probably right when it comes to an annoying thing I regard as a lead weight around my daughter's neck while she's wading in water. She'll have no chance of a mic big house and lots of holidays in her 2nd home with plenty of money - all of which was possible when she told us she wanted to be a Doctor.
I;m certain my opinion on this won't be shared, but please don't waste your time trying to convince me I'm wrong on this, I;m secretly hoping I am wrong, because if I'm not my daughter will be unhappy for the rest of her life.
Wavey1975
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Post by shapes on Sept 2, 2014 12:51:58 GMT
Was being a doctor realistic though?
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Post by .... on Sept 2, 2014 13:57:13 GMT
I think it is okay to grieve for the life you wanted for your daughter Wavey1975. And I wouldn't try and convince you your feelings will change. I just wanted to highlight it as a possibility.
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Post by blaze on Sept 2, 2014 14:05:15 GMT
I feel realy sad for you that you cant connect w babies. babies are all emotion and our.emotional intelligence can grow so much when we learn to respond to little bundles of instinct. High eq is a much more useful in rl than iq, much higher prized by employers in all fields but especialy hcp. As you havnt had your own you may find you feel different when lo cms along, but its about choosing to be open to that, same way listening skills are about choosing to be.open to others perspectives
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Post by Wavey75 on Sept 2, 2014 17:57:07 GMT
Hi Chrysallis,
Yes, being a Doctor was realistic, as she wasn't pregnant at the time and had the grades. Anything is possible, all you need to do is work hard for it. I'm not in mourning for the life I wanted her to have, that ship has sailed and I've thought from when she was much younger that she was the one who would end up in this situation. I don't feel sad about "missing out on babies", to me they are uninteresting and high maintenance and as I'm in a minority there will always be someone who wants to do the whole baby stuff thing. They're are lots of people who aren't interested in the toddler stages I am interested in, the teaching and shaping young minds, etc. and I'm happy with that.
Wavey75
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Post by mypineappledream on Sept 12, 2014 17:24:52 GMT
You are definitely not alone in finding babies uninteresting, I don't find them cute and I don't want one. Even at kindergarten I didn't like the other kids, they made me really uncomfortable, especially kids that were the same age or younger. They are so noisy and messy with food...ugh.. As an adult I find toddlers interesting, I have a cousin that has a 2 year old I got to play with on the last family gathering, he was waaaay more interesting than any of the other people there, full of energy and willing to listen and learn.
I think you can join the "conversation" by expressing excitement about thing you and your grandchild can do once it's old enough, two years goes fast and just think and talk about what you want the child to experience and maybe what toys you would think would be great. Even if it is totally uninteresting to you, go spend one afternoon baby things shopping with your daughter, seriously, do it.
The other thing I'm with you as well, I find education incredibly important and I'm fighting to get a degree, I always assumed it meant as much to everybody as it does to me. That it is not possible to be happy without it. But that is so wrong. I've learned in the past few years that it isn’t necessarily that important to other people (even if it boggles my mind, how could it not be?). For example: I have a friend who got pregnant just as she had applied for uni. Now she has a 2 year old kid and a career as a caregiver (is this the right word? she works with old and disabled) and she loves it! I've never seen her so happy and content. I find it quiet fascinating actually. Just because she doesn’t have “that” career doesn’t mean she won’t have everything she needed and everything she wanted.
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Post by DKL - darkknightslover on Sept 16, 2014 10:30:06 GMT
I'm currently at uni, and already have a degree. In healthcare there are a lot of people who have taken it up as a second career, and perhaps a third to half of my course probably already have children. They've done "access to further education" courses and such.
Also with regards to medicine, it might well not have been the correct course for her anyway. It depends a lot on personality. Is she more of a carer or a scientist? Is she more hands on or more "tools and toys" orientated? I would point everyone towards the USA drama "Nurse Jackie" which looks at things from a nursing point of view. It does show the limitations of nurse decision making, but also the power they have too. They are the coordinators, deliverers and communicators of care. In today's society where people want what they see in "call the midwife" (apart from the last episode in the hospital ward) but the under the pressure of delivering targets and "doing the most with the least" it is especially challenging where someone who does well under pressure (Like ADHDers) can thrice with the right support. Same goes for all other allied healthcare professions like dieticians, physiotherapists and occupational therapists amongst so many others.
Sent from my LT30p using proboards
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