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Post by Wavey75 on Mar 7, 2016 15:22:43 GMT
In the news recently, Jeremy Corbyn MP has publicly stated that he is in favour of decriminalising the sex industry. ( The full article is linked here) What surprises me is the number of organisations listed in the article who also support this action, an action that I have long been in full support of. To my mind, this is referring to prostitutes, escorts and many other such types that involve paying for sexual services, etc. I am however somewhat dissappointed that there has been no mention in the article of male sex workers, who do exist. I beleive this would be a positive step forward to protect sex workers, the oldest industry in the world. It would work towards lifting the sigma around the industry which would lead to what I beleive would be a safer, cleaner and freer occupation for anyone choosing to enter into this industry. It would also elliminate pimps, so called "protection groups" and human trafficking for sex in the UK because of the protections that would be in place with the industry now out in the open, the Police could freely and openly explore organisations and other places of work, as well as remove anyone who they suspect to be "forced" or "appears not to be aware of where they are", etc. This would also mean that a sex worker would be paying taxes and needs regular health checks and have the ability to prove earnings to rent or buy a home, etc. I would therefore like to gather others views on the specific issue: "Should the sex industry be decriminalised?" by way of the poll.
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Post by blaze on Mar 9, 2016 10:33:45 GMT
Something like 90% of sex workers are ex care kids & around 80-90% of care kids are sexually abused at some point in their lives. Collecting taxes of off their revicitimisation effectively makes our society the pimp. The only moral way of doing this would be to ensure every single penny went straight back into helping them out of this situation, prpviding counciling, real help. But that wouldn't happen, & actually we cd put this help in place now if anyone cared, i doubt the supposed protections of decriminalisation wd actualy translate to real protection in the real world. Capilitalism of sexism isn't something i cd justify voting for, just doesn't sit right.
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Post by Wavey75 on Mar 9, 2016 18:20:48 GMT
Do you have a trustworthy source to back up your information, Blaze? I'd like to read a reliable source of information that claims to have 80% to 90% of sex workers to have been "in-care".
The article I have linked does state that many reputable organisations around the globe have all come out in support of decriminalising the sex industry. Amnesty international commissioned a study over 2 years and they have come in support of decriminalising the sex industry all based on their own results..
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Post by blaze on Mar 9, 2016 18:36:39 GMT
It's a long time since i did training on this, so i don't remember sources, but decade of working with kids in care/abuser survivors etc so did yrly child protection training + many related training/reading & heard that repeated frequently.
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Post by Wavey75 on Mar 9, 2016 22:15:16 GMT
Perhaps it might be a good idea to put asisde your past experiences and knowledge and read the article with an open mind.
If what you say were in anyway true, Amnesty International, the World Health Organisation (WHO), UNAIDS, the International Labour Organisation, the Global Alliance Against Trafficking in Women, the Global Network of Sex Work Projects, the Global Commission on HIV and the Law, Human Rights Watch, the Open Society Foundations and Anti-Slavery International would certainly not openly support this view.
they have done their homework. a close friend of mine worked briefly the sex industry and he can say with certainty that of the 35 girls who worked for the company, none of them were unhappy and none of them were from care homes or foster care (no orphans).
I also know an ex-sex worker, who gave up working when she wanted to start a family. She worked in The Netherlands where it is possible to openly work and pay your taxes, save up your earnings, invest in verious opportunities or simply squander your hard earnt cash on whatever you like. My friend was able to put down a deposit on a house in London when she retired from the sex industry at the grand old age of 31. She put down a 50% deposit and got herself a 10 year mortgage on her house, which had a ggranny flat above their garage, which they still rent out. Both of them could give up their days jobs and live quite happily on their rental income alone. My friends chose to fly out to Amsterdam and try it out. She told her family about it and they were unsure, but as she was 20, there wasn't much any of them could do to stop her. She told me that she completely enjoyed her job, the hours were great, the security arouns the area was exmtremely good and it was very, very clean. Regular health checks were manditory and many of those red light windows in the area are actually 'to let' by large corporations, which include doctors & nurses, as well as night-vision CCTV in the areas and private security guards to patrol the areas too.
I find it exhausting when people's prejudices cloud their judgement and stop them from making an informed decision.
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Post by blaze on Mar 10, 2016 17:25:31 GMT
It's not prejudice to compleate required training.
The exhausting comment is rude and obnoxious.
In countries where the nordic method is used crimes against prostitutes increases. In the likes of germany & australia & amsterdam where it is fully legalised the crimes against prositutes has increased (as has related crimes like drugs etc) and some are lookong at steps to change their laws back again. And ofcourse the people who profit from lefalisation are mostly male, both punters & owners of the likes of germanus super brothels.
There is a huge huge gender inbalance. Women's bodies shd not be a comodity- and in the uk it is illegal to *buy* a womans womb to grow a child or *buy* a wife in the literal sense. The idea that a man has the right to buy a womens body or buy access to her body is one we need to move away from, not encorage, it just increases rape culture and increases women's vulnrrability, and it effects how all women are treated, not just sex workers.
There are many things that have been around forever-it's a cop out when this arguement is used- child abuse, rape and murder are all illegal yet have allways been around.
How things work at present isn't ok, but that doesn't mean decrim or legalisation are the correct steps.
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Post by Wavey75 on Mar 10, 2016 19:23:57 GMT
Thank you for your opinions. It would be a good idea in future to back up your statements with links or references to sources to confirm the validity of your statements, to avoid confusion.
This topic has been one I have been passionate about for many years and now I finally see a glimmer of hope that someone in power will listen and act to protect sex workers is such a positive thing in today's current climate.
I welcome all opinions in all of my posts and threads, but when I make a statement I generally back it up with a reference or source, otherwise I am merely expressing an opinion.
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Post by blaze on Mar 11, 2016 7:38:57 GMT
As i had said several times already to yourself i can't post links on my phone, and most of my study was done a while back so it's not something i remember every single link for.
However generally julie bindel & liz kellys (london met university - should beable to find details from their) are generally used to show how legalisation & decriminalisation in other countries put more (primarily) women (and children) at risk due to the increases in organised crimes assissiated with sex industry, more sexualised violence, increased victimisation & no decrease in stigma for prodtitutes (which means many choose to remain working *underground* so makes the work involved in chamging legilation pointless) so effectovely benefiting the men who own brothels & the gov taxation only.
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Post by Wavey75 on Mar 11, 2016 8:26:40 GMT
Hi Blaze,
As I have said, it would be better all round if you clarified your statement with valid sources to back up your statements, otherwise they are opinions.
The article linked in this thread states that several world wide organisations who's primary aims have been to protect women, children and men from all forms of slavery, trafficking, health issues & problems and above all their safety from harm have all come out and publicly stated that they support decriminalising the sex industry.
I would be inclined to believe that any organisation who's goals are to protect people, who rely upon charitable donations to support their tireless work and who have valid sources of information based on results from research and not opinions, must certainly know what they are talking about if they are willing to risk everything and openly support decriminalising the sex industry.
This is primarily about protecting people. With the trade underground, it's much harder to police, regulate and protect people. But with it out in the open, it would be much easier to police, regulate and protect people from al the persecution you have described.
I am openly in support of abolishing all forms of slave trading & human trafficking and I strongly believe the ways in the past have been allowing these criminal organisations to operate freely.
A radical and controversial solution is to decriminalise the sex industry, so that it can be regulated and anyone being forced into it is easier to identify than the present system.
We both agree that something needs to change at least.
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Post by Wavey75 on Mar 11, 2016 19:51:52 GMT
Just spotted this article in The Guardian where they are sighting that in New Zealand where they have the 2003 Prostitution Reform Act, it has neither "had brought verifiable improvements in sex workers’ human rights, their protection from exploitation and abuse, and the promotion of their health and safety."So, yet more evidence to support decriminalisation in the UK and the rest of the world.
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Post by blaze on Mar 13, 2016 8:33:11 GMT
As i have repeatedly told you i can't post links, you can google the names i postedabove if you want to here the other side, however you don't come accross like you do.
The organisations you have posted are, like many, credible in some ways but not in others. Many are still.old boys clubs and that tends to massively sqew perspectives and amenisty carry an immoral rep amoung many.
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Post by Wavey75 on Mar 13, 2016 12:19:29 GMT
Far be it from me to provide technical support, but as this is a forum for expression it would fall to the person expressing to provide sources to backup there facts, otherwise they are not facts.
Perhaps using a computer to provide links to your sources would add some weight to your previous comments.
I have always welcomed others opinions in here and when someone has provided sources to back up their facts I have read them with interest and responded on occasion to continue a discussion or to perhaps comment on situations or circumstances that were not part of the original thread/post.
I am not going to continue trying to explain to you that to say "this is a fact" but not provide any proof, is in my humble opinion offensive and rude.
A good debate, is a productive one. This is getting us nowhere Blaze.
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Post by contrarymary on Mar 13, 2016 19:37:08 GMT
forgive me if i'm being obtuse but may i ask, what has this got to do with ADHD?
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Post by Wavey75 on Mar 14, 2016 20:20:29 GMT
Not a problem to ask at all The topic has nothing to do with ADHD, as I am sure you may have already guessed. However, the discussion and the opinions shared by ADHDers is everything to do with ADHD. By discussing any topic in a specific group, you can get different outcomes when compared to the same discussion with any other group. This poll is an interesting topic and one I am passionate about and I wanted to know what other ADHDers views on this poll are. Opinions are also welcome and whenever facts are introduced, sources can easily be included from any device.
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