alien
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Post by alien on Mar 29, 2016 10:27:39 GMT
Having realised in recent months how massively I rely on my visual memory to link me to non-routine mundane tasks, I wonder if this compensation – this subconscious practising of the skill of association so frequently to attempt to compensate for poor short-term memory – is part of the reason for one of the strengths associated with ADHD – that of creative thinking.
What do people think? Do you rely on your visual memory to remember stuff? (e.g., I won't remember something like taking the washing out of the machine if i don't do it when it beeps, but if I saw a picture of a washing machine in a magazine it might prompt me to remember I have got washing in the machine that needs emptying.)
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Post by vagueandrandom on Mar 29, 2016 11:11:01 GMT
I've always had a really good visual memory, which has meant that I can 'find' things, particularly other people's (unfamiliar) things in a rather uncanny way. .
Even in an unfamiliar situation, I'll notice everything. .keys near the kettle . glasses on the fridge. . . I see it, so when someone says 'where did I put my?'
I get a picture of it in my mind where I last saw it. . .
I didn't really understand properly until ADHD was suggested to me and I read up about it. It comes with having a lack of filter.
I didn't realise that it wasn't normal to see and hear and register everything all the time. . .my work colleagues thought I had psychic skills and I thought
it was just good eyesight because I read and take in info, even if I don't want to. . .
I do it with directions too. . if I've been somewhere before, I'll know by sight.
As regards remembering boring stuff. . I write it down, on paper, or my hand. The physical act of writing plants a visual image of the word in my mind, which
makes it easier to remember.
There's other threads here about this. . it's something I have an interest in.
I've always been involved in creative things. I currently organise exhibitions and multimedia arts events. My business partner loves my creative thinking, even though
it can sometimes get on his nerves. . .
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alien
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Post by alien on Mar 29, 2016 11:21:52 GMT
Thanks. I've seen some of the other stuff around on it too. I'm the same with the note-taking – with the act of writing down being an aiding memory. I find I can't spontaneously remember short-term things, but can will myself to remember things by taking the time out to think about them. I definitely don't have that environmental awareness. (I'm short-sighted, but don't think that's a factor really – more a case of just not really looking.)
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alien
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Post by alien on Mar 29, 2016 11:25:44 GMT
But i digress – it was that point about actively making connections in order to circumvent (or as an alternative to) working memory acting as a catalyst in the development of creative thinking skills. It's just a recent musing, not a firm belief or anything. I'm just interested in other people's experiences.
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Post by vagueandrandom on Mar 29, 2016 11:42:38 GMT
Like your new pic alien Regarding creative thinking. . .I don't think I use anything visual in creative thinking. . I have to draw, or write down words to 'capture' the idea before it gets lost under the many related and unrelated even more brilliant ideas that come along. I always have a pen and possibly a notebook to hand and write things down as soon as I think of them. It doesn't always have to be a word, it can be a shape or symbol that will remind me. I did the washing machine thing yesterday. . it beeped. . I was upstairs on the computer. I put it on in the morning and didn't empty it until late afternoon when I got hungry. I find that some things don't exist in my mind until I see them. I put reminders for things on the way to the bathroom, or in the kitchen because they are the only places outside the room I'm in that I'm likely to see. . everything outside my room doesn't exist until I see them and think "OMG! I meant to do that today!"
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Post by anopheles on Mar 29, 2016 13:24:39 GMT
I used to joke, prediagnosis, that if I wrote something down to remember it, then I would remember it without having to look at the reminder.
Alas, that's not practical for a lot of day to day tasks, nor does it help with memory over time.
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alien
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Post by alien on Mar 29, 2016 14:25:08 GMT
Oh, agreed vagueandrandom – I'm very much a word thinker. I just wonder if those connections 'muscles' (not the visual ones) also come into play when getting creative.
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Post by contrarymary on Mar 29, 2016 15:20:57 GMT
i do exactly that - write things down and then not look at what i've written, as tho it becomes a memory test.
hours/weeks/months later i'll find that i've done something that i had planned to do, but had completely forgotten about having a plan
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alien
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Post by alien on Mar 30, 2016 12:55:56 GMT
I had another related question but have forgotten what it was.
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Post by marionk on Mar 30, 2016 15:55:33 GMT
I'm more inventive, than creative in the artistic sense, but I don't have a particularly good visual memory.
It's just slightly better than my short term memory.
Mostly, I compensate for bad memory by understanding how things work.
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Post by clubby on Mar 30, 2016 17:34:05 GMT
I have a poor visual memory and a poor memory for words.
I have a garbled inner voice and virtually no ability to conjure up mental pictures.
What I do have, to compensate, is really good spatial awareness and a feeling for movement and flow and musical ability.
I can imagine concepts or movement but with zero detail. I'm not sure how that works but it does. I thought everyone was the same until 2 years ago.
The other thing I find bizarre is that despite having no visual imagination, I can draw reasonably well.
I cannot see a picture of a bird in my minds eye but I can draw a picture of a bird by streaming it from my subconscious on to paper.
My executive processor definitely has a screw loose.
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alien
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Post by alien on Apr 4, 2016 12:55:37 GMT
Thanks for the responses. clubby – What you say is really interesting. Sounds almost like all the bits you have going on in between are very powerful.
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Post by clubby on Apr 5, 2016 21:40:43 GMT
Hi alien I discovered that some people don't have visual imagery skills when I was looking for a coping technique for remembering diary appointments. I imagined that, if I could picture the diary then I would be cured. Then I discovered I couldn't visualise anything. Then I discovered that others with adhd have visual imagery skills and still cannot remember their diaries. So adhd is not defined by these things. It is something else.
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Post by marionk on Apr 6, 2016 12:51:32 GMT
A visual memory detailed enough to be able to recall written information, is a truly exceptional skill.
Most people's visual memory is actually limited to things that are relevant to themselves.
It is an interesting thought, that ADHDers might be more likely to have this skill, as a method of compensating for their poor working memory.
It would also be interesting to know if it's something they (or indeed, anyone with it) were born with it, or developed it later.
I have a different compensatory skill, and I'd love to know if I was born with it, or developed it as I grew up.
Whenever I'm complimented on it, I joke that I inherited it from my Dad. Maybe it's actually true.
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alien
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Post by alien on Apr 6, 2016 13:38:59 GMT
Do you know I don't think I explained what I meant very well – rather than visual memory I think I meant something more like 'memory of association'. It's why I gave the examples. (My actual visual memory is pretty flimsy and is coupled up with short-sightedness.) So I might see something that reminds me of something I was supposed to do – like seeing a cat on television might remind me to feed the cat, and then remembering to feed the cat might remind me that there was something else I was supposed to remember and I can then riffle through the memory banks to see if I can pin it down (not always possible). If that makes sense. Very mysterious marionk – are you not going to share that skill with us?
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Post by marionk on Apr 6, 2016 14:35:43 GMT
It's a long story. Basically involves understanding how something works, rather than memorising what you need to do to make it work. I noticed it first when trying to learn times tables. I could understand multiplication just fine, but it was quicker to work out the answers than to remember them! With a few exceptions, like square numbers, even when I managed to learn the 'tables' by rote, I'd have to go through the relevant table to get to the one I needed. Then later in physics and maths, all those formulae, if I didn't understand the stuff behind them, I couldn't remember them for toffee! It really comes into it's own for practical things though, putting things together, taking them apart, mending and un-jamming things, that's where the compliments come in. Untangling balls of wool was almost certainly the first time a non relative said 'Ooh you are a clever girl!' to me and really meant it. These days it's mainly my craft skills that get compliments, so I take every available opportunity to show them off!
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Post by marionk on Apr 6, 2016 15:14:29 GMT
Do you know I don't think I explained what I meant very well – rather than visual memory I think I meant something more like 'memory of association'. It's why I gave the examples. (My actual visual memory is pretty flimsy and is coupled up with short-sightedness.) So I might see something that reminds me of something I was supposed to do – like seeing a cat on television might remind me to feed the cat, and then remembering to feed the cat might remind me that there was something else I was supposed to remember and I can then riffle through the memory banks to see if I can pin it down (not always possible). If that makes sense. Very mysterious marionk – are you not going to share that skill with us? Ah! I wondered why you gave what I would call a visual cue as an example. For me, all sorts of things, bring up all sorts of associated memories. Occasionally it's actually something I needed to remember to do! It's far too random to rely on though! Sometimes I do try and use visual cues though, such as a carrier bag on a door handle to remind me I need to fetch something. Or a saucepan on the chair by the computer to remind me I want to cook a proper supper. (A saucepan in the kitchen, is just a saucepan in the kitchen, where it ought to be, and won't remind me of anything! If it's on the chair by the computer I can't miss it!)
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Post by clubby on Apr 6, 2016 17:54:55 GMT
Hi alien. What you are talking about is what the scientists call Event Based Prospective Memory. Prospective memory is remembering to do things you plan. Event based memory is when memory is triggered by stuff you see or something happening. Time Based Prospective Memory is what adhders are short of. Other people have an internal alarm clock. For some reason we don't hear ours. I have my house set up for event based memory. It is not perfect but it takes the heat out of a lifelong issue. Hi marionk. I am the same , in that I have to work everything out from first principles. At school I was good at maths and physics and rubbish at anything that involved lots of memorising.
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Post by Babble on Apr 7, 2016 12:42:57 GMT
marionk I'm exactly the same - and so is my Mum, actually. I have to understand how something works in order to remember it. I used to have to learn chemical equations for hydrogeochemistry at uni, and they kept giving us very specific scenarios, and they'd take you through step by step how to solve it. Great for most people, but I couldn't figure out how it worked to apply it to other situations. That meant I couldn't memorize it no matter how hard I tried! Also, I bloody love untangling things. It's weirdly soothing. I've been the household 'untangler' for as long as I can remember lol alien I've tried explaining this to my family. Forever getting told off for forgetting to do the washing up when I've said I will (they think I'm being lazy and unhelpful). Don't seem to understand that unless I see the pile of unwashed plates at some point later that evening, I'm probably not going to remember to wash them. But if I do see them, not only will I wash the plates, I'll remember to fill the dog's bowls (water, dishes association) and I'll remember to take down my dried clothes (washing association) too.
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alien
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Post by alien on Apr 8, 2016 13:41:49 GMT
Babble I want all that.on a t-shirt. Exactly the same here but my partner just doesn't ever seem to regsiter my explanation. clubby Thank you. That stuff about prospectice memory is very helpful. That's the crux of my initial question - does building this event-based memory up due to shortfall wtih time-based (prospective) memory in part explain some of the creative thinking skills often found in ADHD types?
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Post by clubby on Apr 8, 2016 15:14:03 GMT
Yes alien, I am sure there is a connection but exactly how I am not quite sure. I have a feeling it is something to do with filters or lack of filters in the mind. I know vagueandrandom is interested in the subject of filters. Perhaps she can shed some light. I am very creative in mind and am easily overwhelmed with creative thoughts when I put myself into the real world, surrounded by events, stuff and event triggered memory. Time based prospective memory maybe acts as a filter but I am sure its not that simple. All I know is that I see connections between things that others miss and when I get excited about those connections I am seen as hyper, impulsive and geeky.
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Post by marionk on Apr 8, 2016 17:10:48 GMT
. . . does building this event-based memory up due to shortfall wtih time-based (prospective) memory in part explain some of the creative thinking skills often found in ADHD types? Lol, like building weird and wonderful booby traps so you can't get out without taking everything you should with you? ;P eta clubby I do that connection thing, too. Usually while watching documentaries. I try and stop myself shouting at the TV, by telling myself, that's what the program is building up to, but often they don't.
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Post by vagueandrandom on Apr 10, 2016 12:18:52 GMT
I'm also a great untangler. . . always my job to untangle the fairy lights, or cables, or string. . .
I also like to know how things work, rather than memorise.
I never really learned my times tables at school and have a complicated way of working them out. . .
which is visual. . I can also count better by looking at patterns of eg. objects or money than actually counting.
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Post by marionk on Apr 10, 2016 12:38:38 GMT
It's funny you mention times tables. I just remembered a couple of days ago, that I used to work them out, at best by visualising little rectangles, and at worst adding 'x' each time. Even when I managed to learn them by rote, I still had to go through the whole table to get to the one I wanted and in the meantime, I picked up a whole load of 'tricks' that helped me work out the answer a bit faster anyway.
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Post by vagueandrandom on Apr 10, 2016 12:45:43 GMT
Back to the bit about creative thinking that clubby tagged me about in relation to filters. . As my brain has always worked this way, I'm not sure if it's an ADHD thing, or a creative one. My best creative thinking is my brain lighting up and the ideas flooding and tumbling over each other making connections from one idea before and during the previous one. . . it's brilliant and possibly annoying if I'm having a brainstorming session because I don't fully think through one idea before moving on to a new, or more developed idea. . . My business partner loves this, but wants to pin things down to specifics and think everything through to a conclusion . . .a lot of my ideas are just thought processes in action and are not final. . One of my favourite responses when I get pressed on practicalities is to work on the ideas as if there were no technical or financial barriers then pull them back. . .ie think big! I think that it's possibly a lack of filter thing. I think that NTs probably have one idea at a time and work through it. . Mine are are constantly changing and evolving. . . Lack of filter may also affect time based prospective memory as I know that I have so much going on in my head and assaulting my senses NOW! that I can't contemplate what may happen in an hour, or next week. . My concentration is so occupied with processing the now that the things that I need to do in the future drift in and out of my consciousness without sticking unless I pin them down with a physical or visual clue. Does any of this make sense?
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alien
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Post by alien on Apr 10, 2016 17:41:08 GMT
It all makes total sense. The only part that's different for me is I don't feel bombarded by external stimuli unless I'm stressed. But if I do notice something, especially aural, like a conversation going on, or birdsong or a clock ticking, I then find it hard to block it out. I'm usually too busy inside my head to notice. (Not great for things like crossing roads and whatnot. )
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