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Post by clubby on Apr 17, 2016 20:05:17 GMT
Are you scared of the phone? I have come to realise recently that this may be common to adhd.
I have been a phone phobic for as long as I can remember and am interested to know how other member's view the phone.
Over the last 13 years I have managed to get this phobia under control and am aware of what a difference this has made to my life.
It is an ongoing project but I am almost normal
Any thoughts?
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Post by manson88 on Apr 17, 2016 20:23:36 GMT
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Post by clubby on Apr 17, 2016 20:53:52 GMT
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Post by contrarymary on Apr 17, 2016 23:33:18 GMT
yes. me too. but got to get some sleep. tagging this to remember to come back
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Post by vagueandrandom on Apr 18, 2016 10:40:15 GMT
Don't even get me started!!
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Post by clubby on Apr 18, 2016 12:38:07 GMT
My earliest memory of the telephone is, running in the opposite direction as fast as I could when it rang.
I used to have massive melt down panic attacks if it was suggested I make a call.
When I did manage to muster the strength to make a call, if no-one answered, my world would fall apart because I would have to go through the whole thing once again.
It did not matter if I was told, people love to be called and that there was no reason to be afraid. I was petrified and I still feel that fear today.
So what's it all about?
I'm still trying to figure that out
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Post by vagueandrandom on Apr 18, 2016 13:17:18 GMT
Yes clubby from an early age, the phone ringing has caused panic. My default reaction to my phone ringing is to shout "Fuck Off!" Just thinking about making a call makes me sick with anxiety. . and, yes, if I manage to dial and it's not picked up quickly, I panic and put it down then feel sick because I'm going to have to do it again. . . The strange thing is, that I've worked on switchboards and in callcentres. . . my theory about this is that they were all incoming calls and the questions asked and responses expected were extremely limited and predictable. . . Even if I prepare, write things down, find a quiet place. . I still gabble, get sidetracked and not talk about what I wanted to. . . not take in information. . .not know when to speak. . talk over the other person. . I often get really frustrated with the ones that you have to call for help with bills, tax etc. . and put the phone down on them mid-flow. . . Even if I'm expecting a call, I'm anxious, and if they call when I'm doing something. . I'm so stressed out and gabble and sound like an idiot. To be continued. . . .
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Post by Babble on Apr 18, 2016 13:19:26 GMT
Yeah, I hate the phone. Bit not good when you work in admin (am actually on the phone as I'm typing this).
I think it's the whole sucking at social interaction thing - in person it's a little easier to pick up on body language, inflection of tone etc, which helps me determine if I'm a) being inappropriate, b) am boring someone or c) making a negative impression in some way. Not being able to see the person I'm talking to is frankly a little terrifying, because it makes me feel even more clueless & inept than usual. Which generally leads to me being even more awkward than usual, and panicking which leads to me either babbling or going blank. Just thinking about talking on the phone fills me with dread.
Also really hate talking on the phone in front of people. It's the absolute worst. I actually avoid it as much as possible at work - I'll wait until people leave the room at times, because even though it still sucks, it sucks less when no-one else is listening to me bumble my way through yet another awkward social situation.
Maybe I have control issues (in that I feel like I have none!)?
And oh, god, don't get me started on the sheer horror of having to leave a message on an answering machine *dies a little inside*
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merrial
Member's posted somewhat
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Post by merrial on Apr 18, 2016 21:06:51 GMT
I'm not scared of the actual phone and mobiles a lot easier than the old fashioned telephones with no caller display. But I hate calling call centers for bills etc, press this number for this that one for that, takes forever because I've forgotten what the first one was for by the time they get to 3.. and by then have to listen to the msg another 3 times before I know which one. And then they put you on hold and play some painfully awful music that makes your ears feel like their bleeding!!! And then you get through to an actual person who tells you your through to the wrong dept and they will transfer your call and then beeeeeeeep...the bloody line goes dead. By which time I have lost the will to live!!!!!
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Post by clubby on Apr 19, 2016 9:34:58 GMT
That is such a good point merrial Can you imagine how this plays with the mind of a phone phobic. It's a bit like putting someone who is afraid of heights on the end of a bungee, making them stand in a queue, then aborting the queue and telling them to come back the next day. Utter torture.
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ananse
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Posts: 73
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Post by ananse on Apr 19, 2016 10:24:04 GMT
I've had this problem all my life and I would not call it phobic. It's primarily cognitive and perceptive rather than emotional. Something about the whole thing is very difficult and it can be more or less difficult depending on the situation. I seems to be in the same part of my brain as remebering names and recognizing faces. Also, a general issue with auditive information seems to be involved.
If someone calls me and it's not my kids, I usually just turn the machine of. If someone needs to communicate me, they can send me a text message.
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Post by vagueandrandom on Apr 19, 2016 11:54:21 GMT
I agree ananse about it being cognitive and perceptive. The emotional response comes from anxiety because you know that you have difficulties and it's natural to develop a fear of something that you know you're not good at. A lot of people mention feelings of embarrassment and coming across as an idiot . . . which is the same as not being good at social interaction. The problem with phones is that with incoming calls, you have no control over the time and situation. . . you may be in what clubby calls la la land and it's a major intrusion and a dramatic change of focus. . causing panic and fluster. When having to make a call I worry about it not being a convenient time (see above) and even if I prepare, I worry that the other side of the conversation may not go as expected and they might ask me something I'm not prepared for, which will throw all my preparation out of the window I'll panic, probably not say what I needed to and if I panic, I won't take anything in and will come off the phone not knowing what was said and feeling mortified that they probably think I'm an idiot. . .
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Post by easilydistracted on Apr 19, 2016 12:49:28 GMT
In making calls If its a well practiced conversation at work- phoning suppliers for delivery dates etc, ok
If its someone i know well and i know i can just open my trap and go freeform, ok ( but that freeform can bring its own problems...)
If its official, no, not ok, its that sense of dread in being pinned down, saying the wrong thing and then not being able to recall what was said and when.
In recieving calls, its that same Fuck off reaction as @vagueandramdom has to being snapped out of wherever i am and suddenly being put "on show" with no chance to gather my thoughts together. I am frequently rude or abrupt :-(
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merrial
Member's posted somewhat
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Post by merrial on Apr 21, 2016 19:33:18 GMT
That is such a good point merrial Can you imagine how this plays with the mind of a phone phobic. It's a bit like putting someone who is afraid of heights on the end of a bungee, making them stand in a queue, then aborting the queue and telling them to come back the next day. Utter torture. yes I find myself getting really angry with call centers but I don't shout and swear but they always say I am being uncooperative with them or my tone is angry and they will terminate my call!!! Well pardon me!!! All my effort and preparation and I just get the phone put down on me. What's that about!!!! Recently I had to sort out my car insurance it took literally all day being passed about from this person to that and put on hold. My head was spinning and I was getting very frustrated. When they said they would call me back they didn't...and I find that really annoying. When finally it was set up I felt like I'd been through the whole spectrum of emotions. I was emotionally spent!! Yes indeed clubby....Utter torture!!!!
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Post by clubby on Apr 21, 2016 19:52:09 GMT
Hi merrial I have lost the plot many times on the phone with call centres etc. I hate when people say they are going to call back and don't. It puts me into complete limbo.
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Post by clubby on Apr 21, 2016 20:47:57 GMT
Using the phone obviously requires good auditory and vocal skills, neither of which I have. 1 I can't isolate background noise so I don't hear what is said very easily 2 If I do hear then I find it difficult to extract meaning from what is said, quickly enough 3 If I am given instructions, they are in one ear and out the other 4 If I am asked a question and I have an answer, I find it difficult to express the answer in a simple coherent sentence. 5 If I am asked for names, times, numbers etc I cannot access the vocabulary and my mind goes totally blank 6 If the conversation is small talk I don't know what to say 7 If they behave like robots I get emotionally charged 8 If they don't answer or they say they will call back my life goes into suspense. All in all, at my worst I sound like a blethering idiot who needs to go back to nursery. My fear turned into a phobia when I was still pretty much a toddler (probably from being told to speak to grandparent on the phone - small talk). Between ages of 41 and 47 I managed to crack the phobia by jumping, terrified, into the deep end, over and over again. I am still scared because the physical difficulties remain. So here is my strategy. 1 Never make or take a call if there is background noise or other people in the room. 2 Take control of the speed of the conversation by slowing it down, slow enough that I can confirm what the caller means 3 If I am given information I slow the caller down so I can write it down 4 Giving a straight answer to a question is hardest - not cracked that one yet - tips required 5 Before the call I make up a relationship diagram with all the names and data I may be asked. It also helps control the conversation 6 I don't do small talk conversations on the phone. Passionate conversations yes. 7 Robotic callers who I need to speak to, have to lighten up or waste their own time. I continually disturb their robotic flow with a bit of human humour. I cannot afford to absorb their bad energy 8 If they don't answer? ( not cracked that one yet) If they say they will call back I tell them I am going out so they'd better be quick and I hang about for a few minutes then call it a day. I am tagging vagueandrandom because I know she shares these problems.
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ananse
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Post by ananse on Apr 21, 2016 22:01:54 GMT
By the way - no idea if this is at all related to this specific problem, but it has to do with auditive perception - I always have subtitles when watching TV. Even if it's in my own language, I can't follow without them. I also prefer turning the volume down rather low.
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Post by clubby on Apr 21, 2016 22:24:04 GMT
Thats really interesting ananse. When I watch TV or listen to music I don't listen to the words particularly unless there's a punchy catchphrase. I absorb the mood or the music. The words are just background noise. I hate movies that have no soundtrack and actors just droning on in a mumbly way. Who needs the words anyway - the silent movies were successful weren't they?
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ananse
Member's posted somewhat
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Post by ananse on Apr 21, 2016 22:40:24 GMT
Thats really interesting ananse . When I watch TV or listen to music I don't listen to the words particularly unless there's a punchy catchphrase. I absorb the mood or the music. The words are just background noise. I hate movies that have no soundtrack and actors just droning on in a mumbly way. Who needs the words anyway - the silent movies were successful weren't they? Well, yes... But then there's Hal Hartley. By the way, Ian Gillan of Deep Purple finds lyrics very secondary to music. Just something to use the voice for. He's only interested in the strictly percussive qualities of the words. I find that very fascinating. I 'm not very interested in song lyrics, but very often I find them interfering with the music. They don't fit in. Either the color and shape of the words or the message. My definition of bad lyrics is lyrics standing in the way of the music. With that said, I think Gillan is one of the true poetic talents in rock music, making really fun and intelligent lyrics (read Flight of the rat). Mick Jagger is an other one, mediocre singer but sadly underestimated poet. Their lyrics always sound right.
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Post by clubby on Apr 22, 2016 7:29:03 GMT
Hi ananse. I totally get what you mean. Made me think about Rowan Atkinson's BOB. Vocal percussion personified. Pity about video quality!!! My inner voice is screaming to be poetic but can't access the words to attach to the musicality of the feeling. Very frustrating. I would love to be a poet.
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Post by vagueandrandom on Apr 22, 2016 10:49:35 GMT
I love Hal Hartley and the whole mumblecore thing ananseI also love song lyrics, which is why I can't listen to music when I have to do anything else. . . I also have to have Radio 4 on in the background to keep me moving and mask the irritating noises. . I find that i can zone speech out. Back to the phone. . When making a call I have to be somewhere quiet with no one around. I write down what I want to say and have more paper and something to write with. Have my diary handy in case I need to make an appointment. When I'm speaking, I have to ask them to repeat everything and I write it down. . I will often repeat back a recap of the important points at the end of the call to make sure I've got the right end of the stick. . . This all applies if the call is going well. . It all goes to pot when we talk over each other, they go off script, or stick rigidly to their script and it's not what I wanted to talk about. .
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Post by contrarymary on Apr 22, 2016 11:46:12 GMT
yes clubby and vagueandrandomthank you for summing up much of what i struggle with on the phone, and indeed my own coping strategies. having energy and being centred before i start is also a must - not able to do any of this unless i'm centred to begin with. otherwise it all goes to pot. tho i have noticed when i'm able to be centred and have saved some *spare* energy, got myself into a good mood, feel ok about it, the calls usually go SO Much Better. i also struggle with suppressing tics, which are particularly bad when anxious. and many of which are set off by sound. so if i'm straining to hear someone or coping with them being loud/fast/heavily accented/saying things i'm not expecting/sticking to script/not sticking to expected flow of convo - i'm then holding in both vocal and physical tics. don't know which is worse, because they can't see the physical tics/spasms and/or they think i'm shouting at them. it's a mare. i think i have some other tips but i;m now distracted by someone sweeping outside, plus washing machine noises, plus scaffolders & roofers. real struggle to think in words. and here comes the electric tile cutter more anon.
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Post by potterhead7 on Apr 22, 2016 15:38:20 GMT
same here! for me, I was scared of not knowing what to say and scared of muddling my words as I talk so fast. it was when I got pregnant that I realised that I would have to start making a lot of calls if I was going to be a parent haha ?
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impasto
Member's not posted much yet
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Post by impasto on May 1, 2016 11:48:26 GMT
This may help some with understanding their phone issues (but not solve it):
I underwent an assessment which I think explained to me partially why I subconsciously (and often deliberately) avoid phone calls (and often video instructions where a voice over explains the steps). Perhaps you can devise a similar test at home and see how you fare:
When I was asked to listen to a 2 minute audio clip telling an ordinary story about a guy buying ice cream etc., when I had to retell the story, I left out around 40% of the facts. I also got several of the direct factual questions wrong.
Most significantly: I made stuff up that wasn't in the story. Also, to this day (test was 5 yrs ago), I remember the exact tone of the guy's voice and his accent.
When I was asked to listen to a person sitting in front of me, telling a similar 2 minute story, I had a significantly better recall of the facts (but still not perfect) and got almost all the answers right (there were some facts containing numbers which my Dyslexia would never have me remember accurately).
Added to the above, comments from people that I often seem hyper-focused on them when I listen - a seemingly logical picture emerged:
On the phone, there are no other "visual" or "contextual" clues to keep my attention. I believe ADHDers are known to try to read situations rather than just listen. Similarly, I need all the surrounding context and "sublimnal messaging" to listen properly.
Suddenly it made sense why at university I could sit and listen in rapt attention to a law lecturer for 45mins, but couldn't focus on a 15minute audio recording of the same person speaking.
Incidentally, the details I "made up" when listening to an audio clip were things I "filled in" that the person was feeling! ("He was very upset that the ice cream melted before he got home.") I "heard" this in the narrators voice but he never said it.
So - when people talk to me on the phone, I must strain so hard to "hear" them, and I focus so hard to get situational clues (their voice, are they angry, irritated, Welsh or Irish, young or old?) that I don't hear the conversation properly and this makes for discomfort.
When people are in front of me, all the "hearing aids" I need are there in their eyes and body language.
Of course, when asked to READ a section of text and recall it, my recall was near perfect and no anxiety.
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Post by clubby on May 1, 2016 16:26:23 GMT
Hi impastoAbsolutely spot on. This is my experience on the phone exactly. I am also poor at understanding direct conversation and also picking up the meaning from the written word. Like you I guess a lot and frequently get it wrong. When I read I get all the emotion and none of the meaning. How weird is that. I hate people giving me instructions either verbally or written because it takes me ages to make sense of them. I can't carry a picture in my mind so picture information is no use either as I have no means to recall it I can just about do symbols but not numbers. In fact I'm amazed I've survived this long. Going by expert opinion I would say I don't have a brain at all.
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Post by Babble on May 3, 2016 9:57:47 GMT
impasto That explains it perfectly actually. I rely a lot on whatever 'clues' I can pick up to get me through pretty much every social situation. I've often been told that I'm a really good listener but, like you, that's because I tend to hyperfocus on the person talking to me. With no-one in front of me to focus on, it's very easy for me to lose track of what someone is saying on the other side of the phone (background noise or chatter is a nightmare, never mind quiet talkers). Thanks for that explanation though - you've explained it more succinctly than I ever could. I wish I had perfect recall with the written word to compensate, but unfortunately unless I really concentrate, my 'reading' relies heavily on visualization of scenes, so I tend to skip over details :/
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