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Post by shiningbright on Jun 30, 2016 9:52:33 GMT
I rarely go out, it's not my cuppa, if I do go out I like to have my oh with me. But today I had to go Leeds and I had people giving me verbal abuse.
In my old town I was used to it but since I got married it happened so less often then I didn't think much about it.
Not a great way to get the day going when I'm already stressing over paperwork (gotta get home and cook, feed the boy's and do paperwork before two >_< )
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Post by vagueandrandom on Jun 30, 2016 10:47:37 GMT
I'm really sorry to hear that shiningbright . . .you would expect Leeds to be inclusive and tolerant. . These are strange times. . .no-one should be verbally abused for what they look like, or how they chose to dress. Be strong, they don't know you. Keep yourself safe, if you don't feel safe, go into a shop, cafe, or public building and tell them why you're there. if it happens somewhere with cctv, like a shop or bus, report it to the police. Take care.
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Post by vagueandrandom on Jun 30, 2016 11:05:16 GMT
Just to add that I experienced something shocking last week on the way to the gym. .
Someone leaned out of their car and shouted "watch your bag!" . .
I looked round and saw that there were a couple of middle eastern looking men walking behind me,
minding their own business in a non-threatening way.
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Post by shiningbright on Jun 30, 2016 11:08:15 GMT
Thanks :-)
I'm used to it for myself, Irma grown up and can handle myself. But it's my kids it's not fair on. My 3 yr old kept asking me why man was mean and stuff. He deserves better.
Doesn't matter where one lives, you get nuts in every pot.
I also met one lady who told me I was going the right thing on how I disaplined my lad who had a huge tantrum (screams and all) on the bus. So not all folks are bad. But it only takes one.
First was when we got to a bus stop and an old man started shouting at me that someone should take my veil off and he gestured to do so (I thought he was gonna but I'd have just stood still anyway- what billy's want is responce), he was going on about my leaving the country and going home. I said I was born here, I'm English. He went on about me being a foreign bas*ard who is only here for breeding and then looked at my kids so rudely my lad got sad. I ignored him and told my lad to ignore him so he shut up and left us alone. He got on a different bus to us and when he left my lad started asking me questions about it and I said we should pray for everyone cos everyone is made from the same God. So he started praying (saying 'allah' over and over in a toddler, sing song way) and a lady near by moved off with a look of fear on she face. I let that slide as she wasn't rude and my lad didn't notice. Then walking in the town another lady looked me right in the eye as she passedand called me stupid. My lad asked why she said that and I told him that she wwasn't talking to me, she must have meant something else.
Then on the bus he has a huge tantrum over sitting on his seat, something he's never done before, and he's alwasy so good about sitting in cars and buses. I think he was just emotional after the day.
So glad to be home now.
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Post by shiningbright on Jun 30, 2016 11:27:54 GMT
Bless you. It's shocking how they can be sometimes.
Yet no one is immune to it.
If I'm around Indians they all think I'm some sexual nut cos I'm a white girl, or they think I'm extra pious if they are practising Muslims.
My oh ex wife gave him loads of greif over marrying me cos I was white and it was an insult to her (his ex) to marry a white girl after her. But she said if he'd married a black girl she wouldn't have minded! >_<
Drives me bonkers.
When I was growing up I could talk to a person for ten minutes and walk away and tell you their eye colour, what they were wearing. It not their skin colour, it just never registered to me. Then in college there were two Indian girls and I thought they were both sheikhs cos one was the sister of a sheikh lad I knew but none wore headscarf, I didn't even know what that meant.
When I was a teen I used to wear a headscaf often cos that's what it says in the bible and everyone in church thoughtI was ggonna be a nun. When I became Muslim and told the priest he said he wasn't surprised and hoped I'd be happy but that I couldn't keep looking after the kids at church cos the parents wouldn't feel comfortable with it.
I've had alsorts happen as I grew up. Then I married and relocated to a place with lots of Muslims, where I'm not the o ly nikkabi (I'm not even the only white nikkabi here) and things got a lot better. I still got the odd 'batman' comment but those amuse me mostly.
I wanted to take my boy's to a petty coo a while back and my oh was worried for me to go, but gave me permission anyway, because it was in a mostly white area and he was out of town. I went and it was fine (the zoo had loads more Muslims there then nonmuslims) and we had a good time. And every time we look for a new house we always check the demographics first to make sure we'd not be the only Muslims there. Sounds so paranoid but it's based on real experiences.
I'll confess I'm just as prone to some level Iof racism as anyone else. There is a part of town I don't go too cos of the Indian men always flirting with me, the Indian women around here are so prone to gossiping that my oh ex knows where ever I go out or visit family in the town.
I don't understand why people can't just live and let live.
Why cause trouble when peace is so much easier?
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Post by vagueandrandom on Jun 30, 2016 11:28:37 GMT
I'm glad you're home and safe. You shouldn't have to put up with it, and have your children exposed to it.
I hope that the rest of your day goes better.
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Post by shiningbright on Jun 30, 2016 11:33:19 GMT
Thanks a lot. I'm so glad to be home.
I'm a stubborn person and I won't let it stop me but it has put a slight spanner inmy plans- i was hHopi g to visit Halifax in the coming weeks, wanted to take my kids to eureka but I'll likely just take them to a local play centre instead now. I til my oh is around (no one says anything when he's around lol).
It could have been a lot worse and I'm glad it wasn't :-) mostly I'm glad my boys are okay and we turned it into a learning opportunity.
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Post by marionk on Jun 30, 2016 13:10:11 GMT
I've just finished sewing a chador, for a visit to my husband's family. It's too hot even in London to faff about with a coat, trousers and scarf. I went up to the embassy the other day, and all I had that would pass for hejab, and not be too hot, was a long skirt, and a long sleeved Tshirt, (with a scarf, obviously ). All the way there I was worrying that the embassy staff might be miffed, and kicking myself that I should've made a chador, it'd be handy for the trip as well anyway. I needn't have worried . . . it was closed for a religious holiday.
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Post by blaze on Jun 30, 2016 13:20:29 GMT
Op it isn't my place to tell you how to handle racism-i have never experienced it- & i know if in the moment with kids keeping them safe & calm comes first, but certainly with your first example you don't have to just ignore it, or teach your lo that ignoring is best. You could tell the bus driver & ask for support- i aware you shouldn't have to and am not victim blaming by suggesting you could take action- as the bus company will most definately have an equalities policy. The bus driver should step in- and if not following up with a complaint would be a valid option because the driver would most certainly be acting against the companies equality policy- and i guess theres the option of the police. verbal racist abuse is illegal
i know it isn't that simple, and i am not telling you to do this, but suggesting that there is another option rather than ignoring. You could also simply retort saying that is racist or that is illegal under the equalities act or something similar
different issue, but also another protected group under the equalities act is mothers- which extents to include the right to breast feeding in public, with protection from abuse, and the right to be treated the same as any other customer ie- not told to nurse baby in the disabled toilet while mum at next table bottle feeds openly. I often had simple phrases like do you allways break the law so casually? For if challenged when bf my twins out and about. As it was while i got strange looks i never had any comments (i must have the dont fking mess with me look permenantly stamped on my face)
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Post by tati on Jun 30, 2016 15:07:11 GMT
I'm not surprised that that they shut up when your husband is around... xenophobia is a fear... and that's what they are: fearful cowards.
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Post by marionk on Jun 30, 2016 15:33:18 GMT
different issue, but also another protected group under the equalities act is mothers- which extents to include the right to breast feeding in public, with protection from abuse, and the right to be treated the same as any other customer ie- not told to nurse baby in the disabled toilet while mum at next table bottle feeds openly. I often had simple phrases like do you allways break the law so casually? For if challenged when bf my twins out and about. As it was while i got strange looks i never had any comments (i must have the dont fking mess with me look permenantly stamped on my face) Has that always been the case? I recall an incident some 20+ years ago, afaicr the only time I breast fed in public in this country. In a cafe, just as baby starts crying for a feed, my meal arrives. Baby will not stay quiet while I eat, so I very discreetly feed him on my lap, and use my free hand to eat my meal. I'm happy, baby is happy, no-one is being disturbed by crying any more, and I have displayed less bare flesh than a Victorian bather, so why is the guy three tables away but kind of opposite, glaring at me? I figured, as there was no ludeness involved, that there was no way I was in the wrong, and so (musing on the irony that I had breasfed many times in public in a country that is supposedly oppressive to women, without anyone so much as batting an eyelid) I simply returned his glare with a condescending gaze, whenever I looked up from my plate.
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Post by blaze on Jun 30, 2016 15:39:02 GMT
I dont know if it was legally protected in england prior to 2010 act. In scotland the law is way better- it is actually a criminal offense to ask a mother to stop breastfeeding or to leave a public place because she is breastfeeding- prosecuted with a fine upto 10k if i temember correctly, & it applies to formula feeding also. We moved just as the girls were turning two so they mostlyjust nursed at hm by then so maybe i would have had many arguements if they had been babies when we were i england.
i fed anywhere and everywhere, and tandam which never works out discreetly! I figured it was way better than their extreem tandam screams : ) so people could just learn to look elsewhere of they didn't like it
oh and re the guy glaring- i think the main issue is often how sexualised breast are in this country, they are their for men to look at not for their biolgical design. We have shockingly low bf rates in this country, the lowest in the developed world, & half that of the america despite the uk having midwife based care and much longer mat leave- both of which the WHO/UNICEF baby friendly initiative identify as best for siccessful bf. I am 100% for women doing what they want with their own bodies, but u wush that were free of decades of influence of page 3 etc
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Post by blaze on Jun 30, 2016 15:50:12 GMT
Totally of topic op, sorry!
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Post by shiningbright on Jun 30, 2016 16:33:23 GMT
Oh thank you all so much for your comments, you've all cheered me so :-) I had a long conversation with my OH after he woke up (He works nights so sleeps until 1/2pm bless him) about all that happened in detail. The guy most likely would have taken my veil off (or tried too as it's quite firmly attached lol) but just as he was reaching out his eyes flickered to those near by and so he just kinda waved his hand a foot from my face. My OH always worries when I go out, he knows I can defend myself if I have too but says that I'm more likely to take a hit then give one (I hope he's right lol). My priority is protecting my children, and my experience has taught me that people learn best after the act (last time someone punched me I got up and asked them if they felt better now and it really shocked them out of their maddness), when they have to face the consequences of their actions in realtime, a little forgiveness can go a long way for some. I'm thinking I'll report it on 'tellmamauk' but I'm not gonna push for anything to happen to the chap. He was maybe 70 years old, he's special to someone and I can't be angry with him for having views based on his own experiences. We all live inside the bubble of our experiences and perceptions, his bubble clearly isn't accustomed to mine. The hardest part for me was keeping my mouth shut and not saying anything smart back to him. For one, it would have simply added fuel to his fire but I also didn't want to be a bad example to my kids or to disrespect him in public. He's lived a long life and made contributions to society same as me and my loved ones. Islam teaches us to love others, to guard our tounges. By my telling tellmamauk, it might work a little way towards bettering the diversity education in the UK, inshaallah. marionkI like the chador - I currently wear a khimar (they have such odd names, in arabic the word hijab means curtain/drape, referring to 'drawing fabric around oneself' and cover completely, but when people say/see hijab these days they often thing of a simple wrap around headscarf, sorry I digress again...). The khimar is kinda like a short chador, similar to the pray hijabs ones sees. It comes to my hips at the front and my thigh at the back, then I wear an abaya under that and nikkab/veil on top. Then just my normal clothes under all that, to me it's like wearing a long coat lol. One of the benfit fits of hijab is that Breast feeding in public isn't something I worry about, I've done it tons of times and most people done even realise because my hijab covers it all lol (also handy for playing pick-a-boo to distract a grumpy baby lol :-) many uses) ... I mostly breastfeed in the car because it's easier. But I often get mixed reactions once people realise what's going on under my hijab. And by the time they realise, I'm putting everything away and they can't say anything about it but I once had a lady ask me if that was 'appropriate' thing to do in public - I said, i think so yes lol. tatiYeah, it's always easier to pick on those who seem more vulnerable (women, children and elderly), if anyone did that while my OH was around he wouldn't even need to do anything, one look and the chap would have backed off. Funny off topic story about my OH - a new shop opened near my home, staffed by all male muslims (not uncommon around here), and i'd go for milk and meat and such about twice a week. I was pregnant at the time and even though my layers it was obvious. I used too get alot of attention from the men there but I mostly ignored it. Then one time a guy at the till held my bags and asked me where I live and to wait for him to finish his shift then he'll carry my bags home. At first I thought he was just being helpful to a pregnant mum and toddler but he persisted to a stage where I felt very uncomfortable. I mentioned that my husband was waiting for me and he gave me my bags and let me go.When I got home I told my oh about it and I said 'I can't go back there until you can come with me, they need to get an eye full of you.' So next time I needed to shop and he was home, then we went together. He didn't say anything, just walked calmly beside and behind me (probably glaring at all the men when I wasn't looking lol) and then carried the bags home. Even though that guy wasn't there at the same time as us, I've not had any trouble there since. Love it :-)
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Post by shiningbright on Jun 30, 2016 16:37:42 GMT
Talk on any topic you want blaze :-)
The more we share teh more we learn the more we grow
My mum always used to tell me about laws regarding zebra crossings in Scotland - she said when she visited there, she'd stop all the time and the drivers got confussed and that when her aunt was here, shed keep having to catch her before she walked into the road. Apparently it's law to stop in Scotland but not in England (My driving theory book says everyone is meant to stop if it s safe too lol)
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Post by marionk on Jun 30, 2016 17:10:51 GMT
Ah . . .! I just looked up nikab. I knew it was a kind of headdress but wasn't sure if it was wimple or something else . . . Sorry, but I hate it, it really freaks me out. If it was wajeb I would never have accepted Islam, and if it was traditional where my husband came from I wouldn't have gone to live there. It's closely related to the problems I have on the phone sometimes. Even if someone is phobic though, it in no way excuses verbal abuse! Maybe it is worse now than 15-20 years ago, but we moved to another town because of racism in the local secondary school.
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Post by shiningbright on Jun 30, 2016 17:31:49 GMT
I wear my nikkab out of personal prefernce, but I would never tell another woman that she must wear it. It's not oblicatory in Islam to cover ones face - it was for the wves of the prophet pbuh but for the rest of us it's a sunnah. Hijab is farz but it does take some getting used too.
For me, learning to wear hijab, I started with a wide bandana kinda thing, then wore loose thing scarf, then wider loose scarf, then started wearing it tighter, then started pinning it properly but I found that it hurt my neck and made my excema worse, then a friend gifted me a khimar and I've worn those since lol. And I used to practise waering nikkab n my bedroom (before marriage - my hubby never saw my face til after marriage out of respect for my character) until I picked up the nerve to waer it outside.
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