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Post by Deleted on Nov 23, 2009 20:26:48 GMT
Recently I took some pro-plus and caffeine energy drinks to try and help me deal with a bout of depression & anxiety. I don't know if it was the plecebo effect but it really did seem to help. I was a lot more rational tham I have ever been when feeling so low and I was a lot calmer in myself.
I know caffeine can help anyone with their concentration but have not heard of it being used to help cope with depression & anxiety.
Anyone else experienced this or is it all in my mind?
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Post by Deleted on Nov 23, 2009 21:29:11 GMT
It is in your mind Which is a 'good thing'. Caffeine is an ADHD self medication staple. Try not to overdo it, there are side effects.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 23, 2009 21:47:55 GMT
Lavatza expresso x5 gets you ready for anythink takes you to a higher plane!
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Post by .... on Nov 24, 2009 1:24:28 GMT
Strong coffee at night makes me pass out. So I guess it does help me concentrate, n be less depressed - because I'm not conscious
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Post by Deleted on Nov 24, 2009 17:53:49 GMT
Do you know what, i've only had 5 coffees today which is a miracle for me & i'm pleased with myself, yes we're all caffine fiends, but i'm not sure too much is good for one's pulse rate while on meds!!
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Post by Deleted on Nov 24, 2009 18:22:21 GMT
Ahh so I've not gone mad then I drink a lot off strong coffee anyway, especially at work and I have to have a cup first thing in the morning. Lurv camp coffee. Try not to drink it at weekends (except 1st thing) 'cos I drink so much of it during the week. Never thought about it as a night cap - I'll give it a wizz cos I have real trouble switching off at night. Can't believe I hadn't thought of experimenting with this before Hoo Ha Ha Ha (mad professor laugh) ;D PD, if one of the side effect is toilet related, had it . Nice.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 24, 2009 18:25:44 GMT
Haha not for me lol!!
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Post by Deleted on Nov 24, 2009 19:35:32 GMT
Agent cooper loves black coffe, can put you in a cold sweat if drank often can cause stomache ulsers
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Post by andy12345 on Nov 26, 2009 3:27:41 GMT
As I discussed before, caffeine does nothing for me. 10 teaspoons (yes, 10) of nescafe, 1 cup of water, no milk no sugar. tried 3x MEGA doses daytime evening, before going to bed, no difference in sleeping methodology (o.O) No addiction, no withdrawal.
Still don't understand it....... was looking at hyperexcreter term the other day and they lose a lot of certain drugs too quickly, so it never takes effect........
I don't know.......I can't even be bothered to look on elowed about caffeine........... LAzy!
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Post by laura on Nov 26, 2009 16:29:29 GMT
im a total caffine junky, coffee, redbull and pro plus ;D
ive not tried drinking more for depression/anxiety tho might give it a whirl, got to be worth a try
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Post by Deleted on Nov 26, 2009 19:48:32 GMT
Welcome back andy ;D Realised something else today - I drink way too much coffee at work. I have a normal mug of coffee before I set off to work at 7am and then I have a monster coffee (1 very heaped teaspoon plus 1/3 normal teaspoon) before I start work at 8am (huge mug equates exactly to 2 normal sized mugs - checked it today), same again at 9:45 and again at 12pm (or maybe a fruity teabag instead) and again at 1:30pm and again at 3pm. Thats between 9 and 11 normal mugs of coffee whilst I'm at work! I try to stay off coffee at weekends and evenings and thats usually when everything turns to crap. Its all starting to make sense. I'm not going to touch a drop of coffee next week and see what happens. It could get messy
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Post by Deleted on Nov 26, 2009 20:12:58 GMT
All of my symptoms are much worse after caffeine. Even green tea. One mug of strong coffee where I used to work used to make me angry all evening and fill my head with angry intrusive daydreams so that I would pace back and forth gesticulating at the mirror in the bathroom etc etc. Concentration too was appalling. I avoid it now. Also, if I consume caffeine after 4 in the afternoon, I don't sleep until 3-4 in the morning. Every time.
A lot of the ADHD students I used to work with also had a lot more anxiety and worse symptoms after drinking coffee/tea. Many had warnings that followed around after them regarding their behaviour after tea/coffee so that they weren't dosed up in workshops throughout the day. When they were, we knew about it. With any number of students we could tell within 30 seconds of the start of breaktime whether they had had caffeine (coffee in particular) in the last session by the number of shouts/bouts of self-injury/acts of violence etc. Most individuals with ADHD who are affected by food/drink, usually limit their food/drink to the very substances which cause them harm, and crave them very strongly. This was certainly my experience at the college I worked for, and in my own case. Superficially, I used to feel I function better on caffeine because my body woke up craving it. It was only after I went through the withdrawal (same for gluten/casein) that I found how much better I concentrated, and how much calmer and more relaxed I was without it.
Giddy, having so much caffeine will certainly lead to strong withdrawal effects whenever you cut back, let along when you cut it out completely. Irrespective of whether it does you good or harm, having so much weekdays and then so little at the weekends will throw your body and mind around pretty bad. Usually, people would get headaches and become very irritable when withdrawing from caffeine, and withdrawal would last for 3-4 days, plus. A weekend will have you in emergency-mode cold turkey before throwing you back into craving-dosing on Monday.
I would recommend a lot of people to try to withdraw from caffeine, gradually, see how they feel after a week, for a week or two. (It does take this long for the body to balance out to a more natural sleep routine and cut out the peaks and troughs throughout the day.) If they don't feel better, hell, they'll enjoy it more in future.
It is true that caffeine is one substance that produces widely divergent results in different people, and that the ability of different bodies to metabolise it also varies a great deal. Nevertheless, if you saw the number of students (16-24) who came in day after day and kicked off and ran wild all morning or afternoon because of the "sugar rush" they claimed to need in a can of Relentless or RedBull, or the number of times a can was found after an incident of bullying/vandalism etc., you would be amazed.
Sorry to spoil the party lol that may be my most aspergic fact-splurging post yet, but I saw it a lot, and, seriously, cutting caffeine, though I always had told myself it helped me, was one of the major things that improved my social functioning, anxiety, concentration, daydreams, anger etc etc years ago, I paid a lot of attention to students' diets when I was working with ADHD/Asperger's and I do tend to bang on about it.
Piss people off in the process too I don't doubt!
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Post by Deleted on Nov 29, 2009 14:39:59 GMT
OMGOOOD Andy, at least buy a decent coffee, just the thought of nescafe if making me feel faint..ewwww
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Post by Deleted on Nov 29, 2009 16:38:26 GMT
Im confussed, just getting hopes up and was gonna run to shop and stock up on pro plus and redbull then read gavs post. Ive never really been caffine addict two cups tea a day cant stand taste coffee, cola upsets stomach. So perhaps might up caffine for week and see what happens. well see.
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Post by Skybird on Nov 29, 2009 19:06:54 GMT
Caffeinated coffee upsets my stomach so I had to switch to decaf I find that when I have a certain amount of Coca-Cola, I'm more focused but once I have more than that it makes my ADHD type symptoms worse.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 29, 2009 19:18:57 GMT
Hey Meggie,
Don't be confused. As with anything I post re food, there are ways of checking whether it is true for you. With caffeine it is easier than with gluten in particular, which takes a long time to leave the body. Also, as I say, caffeine is more different for differnt people than many other drugs/substances.
Alcohol, for example, tends to leave the system uniformally, pretty much at the same rate for everybody. Caffeine not so. Some people break it down a LOT quicker than others. Also, as we see on this thread, it can even make some people sleepy.
It also depends on how good or bad your detoxification system is. This is a complicated system which uses a lot of vitamins, minerals and enzymes etc. In some people it is poor because the system is overloaded with toxins and/or absorption of vitamins and minerals is damaged by a poor gut/the wrong bacteria etc in the gut.
Try it. See what happens. And then try for a while with little or no caffeine. To do this, you have to step down. At first, cutting down, you will feel worse because of the withdrawal. Withdrawal effects are why many people think they need cafffeine/coffee. You need to give it a couple of days after cutting out caffeine completely (remembering it is in some headache pills etc., because withdrawal, if done too quickly, often brings on headaches) before seeing how you feel without it.
As I say, a LOT of the students where I last worked were hugely negatively affected by coffee. It brought on everything from hyperactivity to angry kick-offss to massive mind-block anxiety.
Caffeine ups blood pressure and heart rate after all.
In any case, ADHDers brains need a STEADY supply of sugar. Sugar binges do not provide this. Rather, they lead to peaks and troughs of blood sugar as it first goes way above the ideal amount and then, when the body intervenes, pumping in insulin, shoots way below it, causing a cycle back and forth, which puts strain on your adrenal glands, which have to produce more and more hormone, so that you have too much and then too little blood sugar throughout the day. This is not good, and the adrenalin released after the insulin (they alternate for people who snack on sugary/high GI foods) causes everything you associate with adrenalin, namely, stress: adrenalin is intended to provoke a "short-term stress" reaction, not to be dragged out throughout the day.
Caffeine worsens these peaks and troughs of blood sugar, and therefore worsens the prolongation of a stress reaction. This is also why having drank caffeine you will later crave sugary foods: your blood sugar peaks and then falls, and in that fall, your body demands more sugar. It isn't using the sugar you put into it, it is storing it away, and will later chuck it all out again when the hormone see saw goes back again. Not good.
Pro-plus terrifies me. This is a strong drug. It is nothing else. And this amount of caffeine puts a huge strain on many systems of the body.
Again, sorry to spoil the party, but I really don't see how caffeine can be part of the solution. I understand how people can enjoy it. (I LOVE the taste of coffee, and tea, and just as I love stratching my feet when I've got athlete's foot, I love drinking it and would drink it all day when I am in the middle of one of my vicious circles of smoking and drinking coffee and all the rest of it. But I know how incomparably bad my state of mind was when I was in that vicious circle than now without it.)
Sorry, lecturing again. And mega-long post. I was trying to say don't be confused, and I have probably made you more so, but yeah, try with, try without, give it a week or two. See how you feel. If you don't feel better when you have genuinely given up, given it a few days and seen, then drink whatever you like.
And besides, a couple of cups of tea isn't going to kill you.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 29, 2009 21:30:39 GMT
Wow. How controversial. Been looking on the internet and you get a different story depending on which website you are looking at I used to drink loads of coffee when I was college and uni mainly because I was working through the night trying to cram in some last minute revision or type up my final year project a few days before it had to be handed in. Not sure if the side effects were the caffeine or sleep/rest related. Never drunk alcohol so I can rule that out as a factor. Always blamed my poor concentration and dopiness on lack of sleep and drinking coffee seemed to keep me awake and more alert. Got to say, never thought to blame caffeine on my mood swings but there could definitely be something in it. Taking pro plus gives me stomach problems too. Infact, I seem have a lot of stomach problems so looks like there could be a connection. Hate drinking coffee without sugar and can't stand sweeteners so I guess that plays a part in it too. Even after drinking all that coffee at work I still make way to many stupid mistakes and am still forgetful etc. Only way to see if caffeine makes things worse (or better) is by not drinking it. It definitely seemed to help with the depression but I suppose it could have been a one off freak result. But it hasn't done anything for a recent bout of anxiety, infact, I may have been more agitated. Definitely needs more investigation Suppose I should try and keep off the chocolate too
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Post by .... on Nov 29, 2009 22:19:40 GMT
Off the chocolate? NOooooo. Sounds horrid! Not sure I'd exist with a little everyday lol.
Anyways, just wanted to say that whilst in uni and using lots of fantastically technical whizmo gadgety stuff (otherwise known as the 'HPLC thingie') to measure precise caffeine concentrations in various solutions.... it showed all the other stuff in the decaffeinated coffees - lots of residues from solvents used to remove the caffeine. I haven't drunk decaffeinated coffee since.
My advice? Buy the best quality eating chocolate you can afford, and stay off the decaff. x x
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Post by Deleted on Nov 29, 2009 23:25:13 GMT
My diet when I used to do essays at uni:
Strong tea, strong late, strong coffee Battenberg Malt loaf mars bars Chinese takeaway sometimes Malboro Red, occasionally (at a time when I didn't smoke)
I got into a cycle where I convinced myself that coffee gave me a boost and helped me to do the essay. This is understandable. People talk about coffee picking you up, making you more alert etc etc. A coffee break is a natural break, and you need breaks when you are working hard.
Now, I stayed at my computer a lot of the time, rocking back and forwards and pulling my hair out, but all of that time my head was in the worst possible state. It was sheer will power that got those things written. I am amazed they got done at all. I look back and I remember how I was and how I felt and it causes me pain.
I was convined it all helped. I brought Lucazade glucose tablets to exam rooms, drank a lot of caffeine etc. It did the opposite. Because every time I wanted coffee I reinforced the idea that it makes me more alert, helps me to focus etc., I convinced myself that it helped me. The opposite was true. I could only discover this when I cut back, and then stopped drinking coffee and tea.
Try it. It is counter intuitive in the sense that we are always told that caffeine helps us to focus, and yes, there are a trillion websites backing up every opinion, but the only way to know in something like this is to try it:
Cut back gradually. If you take Pro Plus, for example (which is an amount of caffeine nobody should ever be consuming on a regular basis even if it works for them; it's about putting your body on emergency mode again, and ADHD does that for us without further chemicals helping this along), then cut out the Pro Plus but take coffee for a while, then less and less.
Then cut it out. See how you feel. And you need to do this for a while until all the withdrawal symptoms are gone. Because with withdrawal, if the caffeine is doing you no good, it will make you feel worse for a while as your body adjusts to regulating its own energy supply - something it does much better than you can do for it with chemicals.
If you don't feel a LOT better I would be surprised. But if you don't, then you are one of the people who can drink coffee. Great! Enjoy it. But don't overdo it. Caffeine puts a lot of stress on your body. Not in small quantities by any means - though even this for some people with ADHD is exacerbating the symptoms you want rid of - but in the amounts people are talking about here it is seriously damaging, and leads to the sugar binges which aren't good at all for focus, concentration, energy levels or anything else. You're on a losing streak, getting less and less from the caffeine while it puts your body into stress reaction.
Each of the things above I got rid of, because I don't like feeling angry. I love food. Cooking and eating are two of my greatest pleasures! I made a cider gravy and cider apple sauce with a pork roast I made for my folks today and it tasted amazing, but I only had a little, because as good as it tastes, I don't like feeling angry all day and having no peace of mind. Kate Moss should be shot for saying "nothing tastes as good as skinny feels" and risking the health of millions of young girls, but for me nothing tastes as good as a tolerably calm mind I can live in! I used to love Ginsters pasties and curries, rich chinese stir fries, coffee, real ale, whisky, captain morgan's rum, mars bars, pints of milk, three cheese sandwiches, pizza etc etc., but I used to hate every second of my life and I coudln't control my head or live in it.
My solution may seem self denying, but everyone can make their own choice. I think if you know what affects you you can make the decision whether it's worth the risk or not. Know if coffee effects you, and then, if it does, have one every now and agian anyway, enjoy it, and suffer the effects. I chose to have a little vodka last night and I've suffered for it all day of being angry and uncomfortable in my own skin, and I had a little of the cider gravy and apple sauce because it was bloody lovely thank you very much. Did I feel guilty? Did I B*****cks. But I know it affects me and so I can binge every now and again and suffer the effects, but work hard too to clear my head when I need to, and I'm telling you, undiagnosed so far, and with the social difficulties of Asperger's too to contend with, I bloody well need to as often as I can to get through this life.
The way I see it is this: you lose nothing by trying these things. It's an extra weapon in your armoury for those times you just need to tidy your head up a little and find a little peace of mind.
For years I thought I couldn't live without coffee, and then cheese, and then bread etc etc. I know it all sounds like such a huge sacrifice, but every time I gave something like that up, I gained back a chunk of life I had always been missing. When people stop accusing you of being stoned because your eyes glaze over, you don't worry so much about missing out on some Hovis etc.
I probably come over as an arrogant prick when I talk about this stuff, and I know I go on for far too long, but I've said it before and I'll say it again, it works, and you only have to try it to see. Different parts of the whole thing work for different people, but I stand by it.
lol chocolate sends me loopy too, but again, I think even if you did experiment to try to see if different things affect you, you don't have to cut all the bad things out. You find the level you are happiest with. At the moment I have reached a level where I do my best, calm my head down a lot, but drink a goodly amount of whisky or vodka every now and again to feel like I can loosen up, and then feel like hell - and angry to boot - for a week.
Crysallis, you're bang on with decaff. The solvents are nasty! There is an alternative called swiss water process decaff, but I'm buggered if I have ever seen it anywhere, and I just don't drink coffee.
I found that my taste adapted every time I cut something out. I don't miss coffee or cheese anymore. Chocolate and cheese I do binge on occasionally and feel awful for it, but I don't feel bad when I see other people eat it or anything.
Sorry for the mega long text, and sorry for evangelising, but my head at university and for years before was in an awful state and it was because of my diet, and the idea I had which was fixed in my head, that coffee is good for me.
ps. you people are very tolerant by the way. No one's told me to shut the f up yet.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 30, 2009 12:05:53 GMT
OMG i need to have a bit more control i think?! I wish i could b focussed like you Gav, can't even go a day without the badness!!
I'm sure i'd feel loads better if i did cut it all out, i know..
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Post by Deleted on Dec 1, 2009 1:10:59 GMT
Took a good while. I didn't have will power at all when I was eating all of it. I had to stop one thing at a time, and then each time my impulse control got better and I could do better.
It works the other way too. If I have coffee or chocolate or a beer, then suddenly I can't stop msyelf and I'll have everything, but everything, that I know I shouldn't have.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 1, 2009 1:12:46 GMT
I'm going to try and write it down too, how I feel when I do certain stuff. That vodka really knocked me about, and until about 20:00 today I was awful. Angry, pent up emotions and rage, unable to be in one place for even seconds (until I was cooking. That calms me. But I was too scatty to do that at lunch time.)
But now I'm just pissing about cos its a big day with Dr Cretin II tomorrow... Right, Belcher, go to bed!
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Post by Deleted on Dec 6, 2009 22:10:17 GMT
I drink loads of water so there !!!!!
always have love drinking always thursty and when have coffe have to have water as get bad dry mouth, I also find drinking loads stops your appetite or snack cravings as it fiils you up!!
still a fatty though, hey fatty bumb bumb sugar sugar dumpling!!
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Post by Deleted on Dec 12, 2009 1:31:56 GMT
Agent cooper loves black coffe, can put you in a cold sweat if drank often can cause stomache ulsers I heart Agent Cooper so much - never quite got over that crush. I love coffee too but am trying to cut down as it doesn't seem to agree with the Ritalin. Currently on about 4-5 cups a day.
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