trigger
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Post by trigger on Jun 19, 2011 7:14:28 GMT
you guys are just the right people to help me with this!!
I support vulnerable adults with challenging behaviour (how ironic i know lolol).
My manager is basically turning a deaf hear to ADHD, even tho he has years of expreience with learning disabilities. One of the guys I work with has aspergers and i suspect he could benefit from adhd specific medication.
His file says he has an IQ of 59, i think its rubbish he is alot more capable than that, he just cant be bothered. I work with him everyday, I just have this gut feeling he has it!
His file says he has executive function problems and poor working memory. He misses a lot of activities because he cant be bothered to move but he often regrets this later and asks staff to be stricter on him.
He stutters and tramples ovr his works, he explodes when he can't have his way. We basically have to spend his money for him because he'll spend it on booze and fags! I never noticed until i read his file that he has poor working memory.
HOW CAN I TELL ADHD APART FROM ASPEREGERS?? what do i look? Because i dont rly think aspies normally struggle with their memory and i just see myself in him sometimes. know what I mean?
I had decided to sort my own problems out first. Well I have, and now its his turn.
Thanks for your help
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 19, 2011 9:35:15 GMT
That's a tough ask.
You're making a big assumption that those typically ADHD symptoms that your client has are actually ADHD.
They could very well be but how can you be sure? It's difficult diagnosing anyone and someone with complex comorbidities is going to be very...complex.
Really you need to get him in front of an ADHD specialist to see if they can unpick the problem - and we all know how random and difficult that can be.
I'd really encourage you to try your hardest to make it happen. Anyone with executive functioning and working memory problems will benefit from stim meds (as long as they don't trigger other problems) and the latest research I've been reading has found that ADHD meds can help people with autism - so it's possibly a double win.
Help this guy - I'm sure he'll cherish the attention if nothing else.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 19, 2011 13:43:30 GMT
Either he hasn't got Aspergers or his IQ is a lot higher than 59. In order to be diagnosed with AS you need to have average to above average IQ (100+). In fact, they even give you an iq test during the assessment. If his iq is really 59 then he would have autism.
Its common for people with ASD's to also have ADHD. They reckon 75% of people with an ASD also fit the criteria for ADHD. I guess his AS causes social and possibly sensory difficulties. ADHD causes the executive dysfunction.
My psychologist refused to accept that I might have ADHD as well as AS, and insisted all my symptoms were caused by AS. However, the ADHD specialist said that it was "good clinical practice" to view AS and ADHD as separate conditions, because ADHD can be treated with meds, where AS can't.
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Post by trigger on Jun 20, 2011 1:15:32 GMT
thx JR
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 20, 2011 11:47:11 GMT
I would agree with JR, depending on the IQ test run, without knowing that I can tell you that is several Standard Deviations below average, in perspective, if above average 2 SD would be gifted.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 24, 2011 13:57:11 GMT
I think the best thing you can do is to try and get him an appointment with a specialist. I myself have been diagnosed with aspergers and adhd and my doctor said that these 2 syndromes, along with dyslexia and dyspraxia are all related as its the same part of the brain thats effected. Its very common for someone with one of these to have another also.
Although one syndrome is usually more prominent than the other and if his aspergers affects him the most, adhd treatment may not be that helpful but again he'll have to see a specialist to find out. My adhd is more prominent and I was put on concerta a month ago and its made a massive difference to my life so I'd say its worth finding out x
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 24, 2011 17:06:05 GMT
75% of those with aspergers have adhd also according to Tony Attwood who i went to see a few weeks ago
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Post by Deleted on Jun 24, 2011 23:27:53 GMT
Oh, where did you see Tony Attwood? What was he like?
I think it can depend on the situation as to which syndrome is more prominent. E.g. When I'm in a group of people my AS is more prominent due to my lack of social skills, but when I'm alone my ADHD is more prominent, since I can't seem to get things done (unmedicated).
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Post by random on Jun 25, 2011 10:29:13 GMT
That is very interesting. I feel very similarly. I find my inattentive behaviour is a very hidden thing. Noone in the psychiatric area really takes it seriously because I don't show it in social and less in "assesment" scenarios.
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Post by andy12345 on Jun 25, 2011 14:29:08 GMT
Random, your statement is familiar to my feeling as well. It seems that you have to shout and jump around if you want to be noticed as having a problem.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 25, 2011 14:33:17 GMT
Random, One of the reasons that a good assessment for ADHD in adults should include verification of behaviours from others and should be long enough to reduce the "assessment bias" is because of this performance phenomenon. I was furious when the first psychiatrist said J was not ADHD on less than an hour's interview and no comments from anyone else...J is bright and when in front of new people always responds well...that is the nature of "survivable" with ADHD
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Post by Deleted on Jun 25, 2011 14:41:21 GMT
@jr1985 ..I saw him in winchester for a days seminar along with a clinical psycologist he brought with him. He was very informative and delivered the seminar briliantly ( i got tickets from the nas)
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Post by andy12345 on Jun 25, 2011 16:04:41 GMT
.J is bright and when in front of new people always responds well...that is the nature of "survivable" with ADHD
No one likes to make a fuss, unless they are attention seekers.
The guarded nature of many human psychologies, seems to guarantee that not many will have an idea of what the suffering person has tried in the past....to deal with said suffering.
Sometimes, you'll never know as the person will have faded away before any understanding is achieved or desired.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 25, 2011 16:59:43 GMT
Andy, J's diagnosis has really hit home for a number of our friends - because they are now asking questions of how many other people are out there and are driven to depression and suicide because they are misdiagnosed. Not a single person has had a negative or dismissive reaction to his face (well other than some of his managers, but they are just plain stupid). Especially because his response to meds has been so spectacular. People notice a difference in his eye contact and his speech - on the MPH he loses the hesitation stammer he has had all his life.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 25, 2011 23:24:27 GMT
There's no doubt that there are superficial similarities between Asperger's and ADHD. I say that from personal experience as it was, of all things, reading "The Curious Incident of the Dog in the Night-Time" that put me onto ADHD. The book itself is written (for those who don't know) from the perspective of a teenage boy with Aspergers, and although I don't have any form of ASD there were certain patterns in the protagonist's thinking that seemed hauntingly familiar!
There are important differences between the two, though. To add a variation to the replies already posted in this thread, look at it this way. ADHD creates a quasi-pathological inability to focus; we're great at having ideas and starting things, but very bad at sticking with them. We can potentially handle complexity very well, because if we are to learn to function at all we have to learn to multi-task. Our executive function is best described as "fire-fighting", with the additional complication that everything is permanently on fire. (I'm in two minds about whether that's funny or not...) We can readily cope with the unfamiliar, which is a good job because our minds are constantly running off after it. That's partly why it's taken me nearly 15 minutes to write this reply to this point!
You might, in other words, say that ADHD is a mile wide but an inch deep.
Our apparent lack of emotional intelligence generally stems from our impulsiveness, and we tend to be slow learners socially because we don't pay attention either to what people are saying, or to the much subtler and (in many ways) more important non-verbal clues they give off. We can develop strong social skills, if we can find a way of being bothered. By contrast, the ASD brain intrinsically lacks the apparatus to develop emotional intelligence. ASD people cannot cope with lack of control or unfamiliarity. By contrast, they can and do focus relentlessly on familiar things. This, of course, famously enables them to display quite good, and sometimes extraordinary, cognitive intelligence.
So, you could say that ASD is an inch wide but a mile deep.
Someone with both might well find themselves straitjacketed into somewhere an inch wide and an inch deep. Needs focus, but can't focus. That would be tough by anybody's standards.
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kreate
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Post by kreate on Jun 27, 2011 20:03:41 GMT
yeah I agree Trigger, I think learning disabilities people have a worse time than anyone else getting diagnosed with ADHD. Interesting comment about 75%. Maybe the meds for ADHD are more expensive, maybe the low I.Q. causes specialists to question if their brains would really benefit from the meds and whether its really worth spending that amount of money on them, which i think they would benefit, but I wonder if theres another reason other than ignorance of lack of training?? It does fustrate and annoy me the way learning disabilities automatically get prescribed cheaper older antipsychotics etc, though i do see some slight shifts and change in this, its too damn slow! I want to help these guys more, they deserve better than what the health system provides.
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Post by snickerz on Jul 2, 2011 6:06:31 GMT
could adhd meds not be used with people with aspergers
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Post by kakema on Jul 2, 2011 8:03:03 GMT
Ha ha! I was about to post that I'd read somewhere about ADHD meds being used to treat autism...when I realise I'd read it in pd's post further up the thread!!
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Post by andy12345 on Jul 2, 2011 10:27:38 GMT
What aspects of autism are treated with these meds exactly? I'm not hot on that subject?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 2, 2011 10:49:14 GMT
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Post by andy12345 on Jul 2, 2011 11:04:14 GMT
I think learning disabilities people have a worse time than anyone else getting diagnosed with ADHD. Interesting comment about 75%. Maybe the meds for ADHD are more expensive, maybe the low I.Q. causes specialists to question if their brains would really benefit from the meds and whether its really worth spending that amount of money on them, which i think they would benefit, but I wonder if theres another reason other than ignorance of lack of training??. ^^ what he said.... PD, I expected that would be the case. The headline of the article is rather strange. Methylphenidate May Reduce ADHD Symptoms in Autism. Are they suggesting that there are types of untreatable adhd in autism? After all, it's called adhd to differentiate...
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 4, 2011 16:57:51 GMT
could adhd meds not be used with people with aspergers I have ADHD and aspergers and I'm currently on concerta. I think maybe a problem with treating ADHD with this is that it makes anxiety worse, which a lot of people with aspergers suffer from, so might actually do more damage than good. I think I'm quite lucky that I don't get bad anxiety, I'm socially awkward but I don't stress about it too much.
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trigger
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Post by trigger on Jul 4, 2011 20:12:10 GMT
im not autistic and i found methylphenidate made me quite anxious at first although i noticed it was really easy for me to mask it. That anxiety worn off soon after...
Yeah i stopped caring about social anxiety ahah i love paying for my shopping with coins pulling them out of my wallet really slowly while everyone waits. AH i feel the weight of their stares on the back of my neck as i slowly pull another 10p piece. sweat dripping from my nose. hmmm taste the tension, its like an extreme sport to me
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trigger
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Post by trigger on Jul 4, 2011 20:12:27 GMT
that was totally off topic
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Post by phil on Jul 4, 2011 20:41:33 GMT
last time i checked i had an i.q of over 100 my daughter has ASD and will look you in the eye ;D she picks up ism's she won't call a torch a torch it's a flashlight and mickey mouse is to blame lol she picks up on alsorts ;D
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Post by andy12345 on Jul 4, 2011 20:59:45 GMT
triggger lol.
My cousin and I both worked in the same establishment.
If we noticed constantly impatient, attitudey customer, we would take as long as possible to get the change out of the till. It's lucky you and I never clashed or we'd have a load of skeletons in the shop (andy draws coins forth from till. He notices the tarnish forming on the coins in seconds to him, but months to observers). That was off topic, but hey, adhd site? is anything on topic.
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Post by phil on Jul 4, 2011 21:23:17 GMT
So ritalin has no effect on going on tangents
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Post by snickerz on Jul 5, 2011 5:08:22 GMT
so if anxiety is an issue would non stimulant based adhd meds work
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 5, 2011 8:23:39 GMT
So ritalin has no effect on going on tangents I can confirm this is true. The only effect Ritalin has had on my tangents is that they're now more coherent and people actually know what the hell I'm talking about now haha
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Post by ChaosLily on Jul 6, 2011 12:29:20 GMT
I have ADHD and aspergers and I'm currently on concerta. I think maybe a problem with treating ADHD with this is that it makes anxiety worse, which a lot of people with aspergers suffer from, so might actually do more damage than good. I think I'm quite lucky that I don't get bad anxiety, I'm socially awkward but I don't stress about it too much. im not autistic and i found methylphenidate made me quite anxious at first although i noticed it was really easy for me to mask it. That anxiety worn off soon after... Hold up there....concerta can make anxiety worse? Is that right? I've been getting ever worse on that score since I started on it. Does dex have the same effect? I was considering asking for a change anyway.
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