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Post by Deleted on Jun 16, 2011 17:29:19 GMT
Hi my name is Jade and I am a mum to a two year old boy who I suspect has ADHD and need some advice and support.
Today I have received some news which was really upsetting, not something I want to hear and makes me fear for my child's future.
Jade
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Post by optomistic65 on Jun 16, 2011 18:44:09 GMT
Hi Jade,
Welcome to the forum ;D
Could you elaborate a little on your sons condition.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 16, 2011 19:10:40 GMT
As in why I think he may have ADHD?
He can't sit still, even when watching cartoons or eating he's up and down up and down. He can't concentrate on activites I.e sit and participate in activites such as drawing. I can't read him a story as he can't sit still and looses interest really quickly. He has no sense of danger I.e he has burned himself but still has no idea of the dangers of hot heat (oven) and fire. He steals my handbag as soon as I have my back turned and takes out my lighters (runs and hides with them) he also takes money out of my purse. He is repetitive with some naughty Behaviour, I.e he likes to pull all the DVDs off the rack, put them back, pull them off and so forth. I can't leave him unsupervised for any amount of time, I can't even cook dinner. If he does something naughty I.e shake the fireguard (its metal and the noise is horrendous), I say no he looks at me blankly like he's starring right past me and continues with the naughty behaviour. He's violent, hits, pinches and bites. He's being kicked out of nursery for excessively biting (50 times in 3 months) amongst other behViour problems. He will hit children over the head with big toys such as a big dumper truck. He never plays with his toys (they cost a fortune) he likes to play with screw drivers and undo toys and plays with household objects including plug sockets. They seem to interest him more.
I'm a nursery nurse and have tried every discipline procedure and nothing has worked.
That's all I can think of off the top of my head, that's a glimpse of our life.
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Post by optomistic65 on Jun 16, 2011 20:19:09 GMT
You have my sympathy Jade you must be at your wits end. As well as the other things you have tried, have you looked into changing his diet. What was he like as baby?
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Post by phil on Jun 16, 2011 21:25:48 GMT
hi jade, my sons myself and my brother have all had a fasination with fire my son thought it was funny to set light to an asda carrier bag in his bedroom and watch it fly around like a hot are balloon, my brother burnt down my mothers bungalow my son is not so impulsive now and i kind of miss the old lewis he just watches telly alday and does nothing he has piled the weight on theiving off ma' was my brothers trick i would not thieve off her but anywheres else was fair game
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Post by Deleted on Jun 17, 2011 5:03:06 GMT
I went past my wits end a ling time ago. I sometimes think, and think wow I reallly don't know how we are both standing here!
He has a pretty good diet to be honest, he's a fussy eater anyway as in trying to get him to eat and the amounts he eats. Anything that I do cook for him is cooked fresh I.e the other night we had creamy spinach pasta. No extra additives etc.
When he's at nursery he gets fresh home cooked meals there too, loves fruit. And I don't. Very often give him sweets tbh.
As a baby he has always been difficult, it took me two weeks to get him to breastfeed, he stared biting my breasts at five months as he got a heck load of teeth through. He's been trouble since he could move really.
In his whole two years he has probably only slept through the night a weeks worth,he wakes up every night around two times. I have to put him to bed ridiculously early say 6pm or 6.30pm to just guarantee that he gets enough sleep as otherwise he is awful the next day.
Because he. Is being kicked out of nursery, my. Health visitor is finally going to make a referral.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 17, 2011 5:04:05 GMT
He loves to play with my lighters and it scares the hell out of me, it doesn't matter where I had them he finds them!
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Post by boo on Jun 17, 2011 6:57:44 GMT
hi there, i am sorry to hear yu are having such a difficult time x i am posting very quickly as i should be getting off to work really but one quick thought about the lighters (and any other small object that you want kept away from little fingers) have you thought about a cash box? it can be a good way to keep things easily to hand but not accessible to your little one gotta dash boo x
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Post by kakema on Jun 17, 2011 6:59:13 GMT
I really feel for you, Jade. My daughter is 10, now, and she's always been a handful. I guess it hasn't been helped by my being ADHD as well - it's hard for me to form good, structured habits, too. I recognise so many of the behaviours you describe, and the need for sleep - other mums were amazed at how long my daughter slept, but she needed it, too, and fortunately didn't fight it. I got no answers for you on childcare. I was lucky, in that her nursery kept her well stimulated, so she didn't find too many opportunities to make her own amusement. And although she had a violent and bitey phase, they dealt with it well (until recently, she was still scarily violent at home). It's great you're going to get some help with this, though, so the crisis has had a good effect as well as bad. My only advice would be to pick your battles when disciplining. ADHD kids don't have the same 'reward' programming as 'normal' people, so it's hard to train through reward and punishment - they don't hold onto the lessons so effectively, and they find it hard to recognise and control a 'wrong' impulse. So focus on embedding the behaviours that really matter (and put a child lock on the lighter cupboard). If you correct on every little thing, it just becomes too much for them to hold on to. I found it hard to 'teach' consideration for others - I always thought we were born with it - but ADHD kids, I think, struggle with thinking through an action far enough to get to cause and effect, particularly when effect is abstract - an emotion - rather than concrete. It's so tricky to do much at two, but it won't be long before he starts getting into 'why'? At first, I reckon, it's about showing how what he does makes you feel - 'I was so happy when you did what I asked just there - thank you' or (stick to the big ones) 'i was very sad when you...', and doing that A Lot. By 3-4, my daughter was asking pretty searching questions about motivations and morality (WHY does Ska hate his brother??), and those conversations give ADHD kids the hooks and connections they need to see (and play with) the patterns in the world - this happens because that happened. Working out the world becomes a facsinating game, and you'll get a lot of trial and error behaviour as they experiment to find out where the lines are drawn. At that point, you need to be ruthlessly consistent, and you need to explain every time why any departure is exceptional and doesn't represent a change to the boundary they'd already worked out. I found it incredibly tiring to be so consistent or have to face challenge - and she spotted every shift or inconsistency and faced me with it (but you said last time...). Every time *sigh*. The other thing is, of course, making sure that he doesn't connect difficult behaviour with getting your attention. If he makes that connection, it's really hard to unpick, and the only way to avoid it, I think, is to make a much bigger fuss about 'normal' behaviour than you might think was reasonable. It's a pig for parents with 'mixed' kids because the non-ADHD kid can resent the praise given to the ADHD kid for doing things that come naturally to them and they get no recognition for. Sorry - bit of a lecture. It's not that I think of myself as an authority, just that I found it fascinating, too - joining all the dots
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Post by Deleted on Jun 17, 2011 12:44:32 GMT
Ooshiny your post is really helpful.
I'll be completely honest here when he was younger and naughty I would punish him by smacking him (I was smacked as a child so was sort of a instant reaction), I didn't think anything else was going on though I.e I just thought he was being naughty.
I soon put a stop to the smacking as punishing as for one it wouldn't work and had absolutely no affect and I soon realised there was more to his bad behaviour than just being naughty (I regret ever starting this trust me).
After that I tried moving away and sitting on the spot but this was almost impossible for him, he literally could not sit still so again it becomes ineffective so I stopped doing that.
I soon realised that I was always pointing out the negative behaviour (because it was so often and persistent) and never the good behaviour (I'm teaching my self here).
So for the last month or so we have been trying a star chart and trying to overly reward the positive behaviour to try and counteract the negative behaviour shown. He gets stars and it helps with getting things done such as eating all of his dinner but it hasn't really had a effect on his behaviour, I think hes not making the connection that good behaviour results with a reward such as a star (he does get excited putting stars on his chart) but the connection doesn't seem to be sticking. Admittedly reward charts are for a year or two older than his age. But it has had some positive affect.
With regarding the above I've tried this put it's very hard to maintain eye contact with him, he just can't seem to look at me to be able to give a positive effect with what I'm trying to say.
Some naughty behaviours that he does I can ignore and have been trying too to try and make sure that hes not getting attention for the naughty things he does, but some things I simply just can't ignore as they are very dangerous.
It's so very hard and I praise everyone who has dealt with these behaviours effectively! I'm having to learn and teach myself all over again which is also very difficult.
Thanks
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Post by twix on Jun 17, 2011 19:55:22 GMT
Hi Jade, keep trying with the rewards. As far as I remember I don't think they will diagnose a child this young, but maybe you will get some help. I know I was showing signs at that age, and I believe I tried to unscew a plug socket amongst other things!
Is there a support group in your area for parents, that might be a big help. Other than that, I think a lockable cupboard as mentioned, and I will see if my mum has any helpful hints for you!!!
Things I can think of is making sure he is physically tired out might help, take him for a long walk everyday, take him outside and play football, let him run round the park for hours, that kind of thing. ADHD kids are much better doing outside stuff than watching TV and need a LOT of physical activity to calm them.
If he is doing something you don't want him too, try to get him to change to a different activity, rather than trying to get him to stop what he is doing by saying no, just ignore the bad behaviour and entice him to do something else.
If you need to make dinner, get him involved in helping you, and praise him a lot.
As well as a star chart you could put stickers on his tshirt?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 17, 2011 20:03:05 GMT
Thanks we did put child locks on all the kitchen cupboards so we could hide stuff but they are poop and he's broke them all! We've resorted to putting a Bolt on the kitchen door as he just used to boot it to open it and pull everything out of the cupboards.
Ill look into the safety dposit box as at least he cent break that!
I agree with the physical energy thing he deffo has a lot of energy to burn and a long walk sounds like a good idea, I might try and find some local lane or something so he can run free, and me to chase. I might as well get some exercise out of it being pregnant lol.
I'll be honest and I'm not expecting a diagnosis as I know it's highly unlikely at his age but I'm just hoping that the pead can see he has a need and will monitor him rather than just shut the door on us like everyone else has.
I have to say thanks everyone it is so nice to be able to talk to someone who understands what I'm going through, I've literally been pulling my hair out and I have ababyon the way to think about too now. I have to do everything I can to get as much support in place before this baby comes.
Thank you all! X
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Post by guest trisha on Jun 17, 2011 21:53:50 GMT
Hi Upset Mum, I understand how you feel. Have you tried taking him swimming as that can be tiring?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 18, 2011 4:44:58 GMT
Hes scared of the water, if I take him he's constantly trying to get out. I do take him to rugby tots on a st morn which kills him a me off lol
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Post by dizzy dumpling on Jun 18, 2011 11:00:39 GMT
Hi jade, just a quickie as I'm up to my eyeballs - but WOW! to what shiny said - someone slap a gold star on that laydee - took me a while to work all that stuff out, but have to agree with everything she said - but I could never have put it so succinctly! You must be going through a complete nightmare at the moment, but I just want to add a few words of hope. My son was similar to yours when younger, although thankfully not with the fascination for fire - that must be very scary. We were lucky to have a good nursery at age 2 attached to the college I attended and they had much better staffing levels and more mature/understanding staff than most. However, when he started state nursery at 3 they weren't so understanding and wanted to send me on a parenting course! At 5, the school pushed us to go for assessments and he was dx at 6 with high functioning autism, but he plainly also has ADHD too! Our monkey is 8 1/2 now, and although still getting into a lot of scrapes and tantrums (mainly because he's hypersensitive to criticism and what he sees as unfairness) things have got better. I think the fact that you've recognised from such a young age that his problem is not just 'naughtiness' to be 'disciplined' out of him will be a huge advantage to you both. I persisted with the naughty corner for years (from about 2 - 5) which could often result in battles of will that lasted all afternoon/evening etc. and would make us both exhausted - it was soul destroying for us both looking back - but I thought I was doing the right thing. Now I know I was just trying to force him to be something he wasn't. Once you have a clear idea of where his isues are stemming from you''ll be able to do lots of reading that will help you to understand what it feels like to be him - and then one day, you'll just find yourself working with him rather than against him - if you know what I mean. I just realised one day that I suddenly understood how our boy 'worked' - it just felll into place. With consistency it should become easier in time - as his cognitive development increases it should also become easier - he's still very young. Many of my son's behaviours stemmed from anxiety - such as not knowing what to expect - so a clear set of warnings that if he does 'that' again, 'this' will happen - rather than just saying right - you've done 'that', so I'm doing 'this'. I hope that makes sense - I'm in a bit of a rush! If the sanctions are the same every time (I tend to knock off the amount of computer game/TV time allowed, but maybe your boy's too young for this), as he gets older, he will learn to recognise in advance that he's made his 'decision' to continue with the behaviour and accept the consequences to some extent. Not saying he still wont kick off mind - you may still want to invest in body armour! But at least he'll gradually get to understand the way that he is shaping his own consequences. It just takes a lot longer for our kids than others! We also use a ladder system, with a photo of our son (in a sort of ladder climbing position) laminated, and a laminated ladder with 7 rungs on the wall. The rungs have velcro spots on and the photo also has velcro on so he can move himself up & down the ladder when he behaves/misbehaves (like twix - I think- said, he can go up the ladder just for things other people regard as 'normal' - such as opening his mouth to put the toothbrush in etc.) When our boy gets to the top of the ladder he gets a small treat, and then places 'himself back on the middle rung again ready to start over. If he goes to the bottom he gets a black mark then moves back to the middle. We have no punishment as such associated with the black mark, apart from the dislike of black marks on the star chart - any punishments given will depend on the sanction system and warnings I already mentioned. If our son refuses to move himself down the ladder and we have to do it for him, he goes down twice which usually (but not always!) ensures he comes and does it himself. I think it's the act of actually moving himself up and down that's effective with this - as being a picture of him it's a visual representation he can understand. We've used this since he was about 4 (just update the piccie now and again!) and it seems to help. Also, to try and teach deferred gratification, the star chart, which is next to the ladder, that has the stars and black marks stuck on (he still enjoys sticking a sticky star on!) is divided into months of the year. If he has more stars than black marks on the last day of each month, he gets a small toy, generally one that he's chosen in advance. When he was younger we used to cut a picture of the toy he wanted out of the Argos catalogue and stick it at the top of the ladder with blue tack so he could see what he was reaching for! This probably doesn't work for everyone, but we've found it a help. However, when a meltdown occurs, nothing's going to make any difference! Once you're kid's gone past a certain point (what I see as the point of no return) tantrum wise, it's pointless to try and intervene, and our son just has to burn himself out with it. Then we can discuss it later if and when the time's right - how he feltat the time etc. So much for a quick post! Btw, I just told my son what I was writing, and he said tell her to distract him when he's being naughty! Not a bad idea - as long as it doesn't become a reward for the bad behaviour! I've heard of some parents shoving something nice smelling under their kids' noses - don't know if it works, but I think u can actually buy special smelly sniffy stuff for this purpose somewhere. It would definately have worked for me as a kid - I still calm my own head down by sniffing Olbas Oil!! Sorry for rabbiting on at you - like I said - don't know how to put things succinctly! Please just have a look at high functioning autism/aspergers on the internet to see if it rings any bells for you. I may be barking up the wrong tree completely, but the eye contact problem and taking things apart sounds very familiar to me. Hope things get better for you and good luck with the assessment process etc. Life may not be easy, but it can and hopefully will get better in time. Take care, Diz x
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Post by twix on Jun 18, 2011 15:39:29 GMT
Many of my son's behaviours stemmed from anxiety - such as not knowing what to expect - so a clear set of warnings that if he does 'that' again, 'this' will happen - rather than just saying right - you've done 'that', so I'm doing 'this'.
I agree so much with this. In fact not just for punishments, but in general he may be one of those kids that needs a lot of notice of what's happening. For example, with my friends kids I don't say its tea time without giving them a 5 minute warning first, and also I don't say its tea time and assume that they know what I want.
So I say to them its tea time in a few minutes, I give them 5 mins and then a very specific instruction to wash hands and come and sit down.
It may sound very literal but some kids need that level of detail telling them what is going to happen, and exactly what you want them to do. I never responded well to vague instructions not because I was naughty, but because my brain didn't make the connections of what I was told to do and how this translated in to practical action from me.
Also if he doesn't do it straight away don't get cross, just keep repeating the instructions calmly.
Hth
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Post by kakema on Jun 18, 2011 16:23:04 GMT
Yes, the warning, then the event/follow through are important.
Also not giving complex instructions. One piece at a time.
I found starcharts didn't really work - the cause and effect link was too abstract and distant. Extra play time or other immediate concessions were more effective.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 18, 2011 18:47:43 GMT
I would like to add that HFA and ADHD are often comorbid, and some of the nicest people (including my own brother) I know are HFA, and it is not a life sentence to disability if the parent works early on socialised behaviours.
Thumbs up to all that is written by Oshinny and Diz, because they are the kind of things we do in my family which is full of aspies (I am an interloper on the board here, my link to ADHD is two significant men in my life getting a diagnosis in the last 4 months, my own neurodiversity is dyspraxia)
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Post by optomistic65 on Jun 19, 2011 11:06:38 GMT
Hi Jade,
Excellent advice from Shiney and Dizzy.
Star charts were good for my son when he reached about 3 years old.
My son was hyperactive as a little boy but reasonably placid. I made sure from the age of 5 that he was signed up for every sporting activity going, during the school holidays and it proved to be a really positive outlet for his energy. At secondry school he was in the rugby, football and cricket teams and was member of a football club and tennis club out of school.
Things went sour when my son left school and went to college, although he was still a member of the football team it wasn't enough. All of the exercise had been burning off all his nervous energy and without it agitation and anxiety started to surface. I think he needed the healthy competitiveness of sports because he started to become very competitive at home. He would now like to join the army as he says he needs discipline?
X
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Post by kakema on Jun 19, 2011 13:13:38 GMT
Actually, opto, you're right - my daughter was a lot more physically active at nursery than she now is at school, so the energy now bursts out rather than being dissipated through the day. Good point.
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Post by forgetnotme on Jun 19, 2011 22:44:15 GMT
Hi jade i used to just "play " with my kids all the time. housework was never done. Did manage to feed them I think. I found that the disraction technique was very useful. I think I also used to do a lot of directed play. at the time I knew nothing about ADHD. life was about survival. mine didn't have the fire fascination so I can't help there but I don't remember plugs and sockets being taken apart. so i can't say how I coped with that. With hindsight exercise and long walks would have been a good strategy but I hated going out for no reason. Used to go swimming and biking with dad though. sorry I can't be more help except that I think as they get older it becomes "easier" it does sound like there may be some autism going on there. And the world can then be very hard to make sense of. I saw a saying, in fact several. "Imagine that everytime you were spoken to it sounded like Japanese." All you can do is keep trying until you unlock the secret that is your son. hope you get help too. virtual hugs and then some more
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Post by forgetnotme on Jun 19, 2011 22:46:50 GMT
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Post by twix on Jun 20, 2011 7:32:03 GMT
You might not remember but I bet dad does
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Post by optomistic65 on Jun 21, 2011 7:13:27 GMT
Yes Shiney, I don't think that girls are encouraged to take part in team sports or there are less sports available to them especially at secondry school.
I think that excelling at sport is good for an ADHDers self esteem and they are also helping to manage their own condition which is empowering.
My son also had construction type toys like Knex, Meccano and Lego technics which we used to do with him and that helped with the fascination for dismantling things!
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Post by twix on Jun 21, 2011 9:39:17 GMT
There is a lot of good stuff on this thread, can it maybe moved to parents so that if other parents need help that it gets found easily and not lost in introductions?
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Post by Deleted on Jul 5, 2011 17:47:57 GMT
Hi jade, I'm sorry to hear you're having such a bad, I have a friend who went through exactly the same thing as you and she got very depressed. Her son turned out to be autistic, and I noticed that you say your son struggles with eye contact and is afraid of water, just like my friends son. How is his speech and motor skills progressing? If he's already been referred to a specialist though they should do a routine check for this.
I hope you get your answers soon though and it's important to remember that whatever the diagnosis the earlier it's spotted the more help a child will receive and the better their prospects for the future, I hope things work out for you.
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Post by ChaosLily on Jul 6, 2011 12:41:45 GMT
My daughter is now under the care of a psychiatrist who recommends the Nurtured Heart approach/technique..thing. (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Transforming-Difficult-Child-Nurtured-Approach/dp/1903269105/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1309955844&sr=8-1)
I've got the book...I haven't quite read it yet...(it's poorly written IMHO) BUT - the one day I did more or less put it into practice-ish the results were encouraging. So much so I think I will read the book properly and give it a bash. My daughter is 13 by the way, so while your kid is 2 you might not feel as dumb doing it as I did!!
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Post by Deleted on Jul 20, 2011 15:25:06 GMT
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