trigger
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Post by trigger on Jun 22, 2011 21:07:27 GMT
Hey guysGod I need the stability so adapt so much. In fact my manager not only kept the pressure he ended up getting rid of me. I was assigned a new manager and a week after my dx everything s gone wrong
I am now unable to earn overtime which cuts my wages by 30% and cuz the shifts rotate I can't look for a part time.I have to drive disabled ppl around and I'm an aweful driver. I need to commute which is a pain and will get me sacked. The planner always changes and I struggle to keep up. And its DULL! I have thours and hours (up to 24)locked in a a tiny staff room. It feels like they tailored it to be as unbearable as possible. And here I am rocking back and forth like a caged animal.
Now and still stuck in a job i hate earningcrap pay and waitong for a full risk assessment to be carried out by HR to determine whether I am suitable to work w vulnerable adulys Not a good start uh. Reckon ill pass the risk assessment ? Can they just sack me if I fail? Anything I can do to defend my wages and job quality? Everyone just making me feel like they're doin me a favour and I should be grateful
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 22, 2011 21:31:25 GMT
Sorry to hear of your troubles. I'm currently mulling over whether to tell my employer about my adhd. Risk assessment? On what grounds? Have you managed to pass your probation? If you have, it's actually very difficult to sack you. They have to prove, if challenged, that they have done everything they can to help you (like extra training, increased supervision etc) before dismissing you. Sounds like constructive dismissal to me.
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Post by kakema on Jun 22, 2011 21:44:43 GMT
Hey, Trigger - sounds grim. Don't know the answer, but you do have employment rights. Do you have a union? Even if you only join now, they can help you. Alternatively, try CAB, or one of the mental health charities for some advice on what you can expect.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 23, 2011 15:29:22 GMT
How late were you usually? Like 5 minutes? An hour?
Employers are expected to make reasonable adjustments for people with disabilities, so being a bit more flexible with your clock-in time, etc.
It sounds like they're done the complete opposite and make things a lot harder for you, which may be in violation of the Disability Discrimination Act.
Like the others have said, go to your union, and if you're not in one already, join one.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 23, 2011 20:11:35 GMT
Update - it is now all covered under the Equality's Act. Get HR involved now, get occupational health involved. Believe me, they don't want to mess with things under the EA. Always have witnesses at meetings between you and any management. If you don't belong to a union, I suggest that you do speak to CAB rather than joining as it is expensive.
Oh, and you are also "innocent till proven guilty" when it comes to work with vulnerable adults - so don't take crap like that
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Post by kakema on Jun 23, 2011 21:13:16 GMT
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 26, 2011 20:58:01 GMT
Trigger - Picking up on the "constructive dismissal" angle mentioned by ditzy above. Although the term only applies if you actually resign, the principles underlying it are worth noting.
Specifically, sudden and significant changes in work location, or of the type of work you are required to do, are prime examples of the sort of things covered. (The loss of overtime might also figure, but that would depend on the circumstances - if there were a general stop on overtime because of wider economic conditions, it probably wouldn't count, for instance - so I mention it tentatively.)
Regardless of whether you kicked off, or of how much you lost it with head office, be assured that you still have rights as an employee. Even if you'd literally punched someone and were being done for ABH, or something extreme like that, the change in work conditions would still be a completely separate issue.
I'm not a lawyer, but I have had to research this sort of thing (my wife had an equal pay claim earlier this year, i.e. she was being paid less than the two men in her team to do the same job). And I have ADHD, of course. So I will presume to give three specific bits of advice, with apologies if they're obvious.
1) Act, don't react. If you're clear that the work situation is just not liveable, then get clear and get control. You're not helpless and you're not alone. Read up on tribunals (there's some good stuff on wikipedia and even just 10 minutes one evening will start to give you a basic idea), visit the local Citizens Advice Bureau and generally get some formal, qualified advice.
2) Keep a detailed written record of everything that goes on that may be relevant. In a tribunal or other legal setting, that will be evidence and it'll give you a much stronger case. I see from the dates on the thread that this is all pretty recent - get as much detail down while it's fresh in your mind, and then keep it up.
3) Here's the hard bit, because we (ADHDers again!) do tend to get emotional very easily and struggle to win arguments in stressful settings. The thing is, you don't owe anyone a calm explanation for how you feel and if management, HR or anyone else is putting you down and making you feel bad, you don't have to win those exchanges to come out on top in the end. What's important is that, however you feel at work, when you get home, you don't give up and let them intimidate you into inaction. They may be giving it "disciplinary this" and "risk assessment that", but the law is bigger than them and two can play at that game. Not only don't they have the right to treat you unfairly, they don't have the power to get away with it. I'm not saying "don't get emotional, just park the issue and treat it calmly", because we can't easily do that! But I am saying, be deliberate about the way you approach this. E.g., if after taking advice you decide to take them to tribunal, then do what it takes, and do it deliberately; and if you can't do it calmly, what the heck; do it emotionally, with a bright red face, hot and cold flushes and the shakes if you want. None of that counts in a tribunal: it's all about evidence.
Hope at least some of that helps!
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kreate
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Post by kreate on Jun 27, 2011 18:41:17 GMT
hi trigger, (my attention drew to this post as I know a tigger) Why have I only just read this post, where have I been? lol This clearly is no laughing matter, not even for inappropriate I. Hmmm where do I start, and dare I start, as everyone reads this forum these days, even my employers, bless them ;-) I am also a support worker for learning difficulties and challenging behaviour and love my job, probably due to being on the same spectrum with ADHD. Luckily I am not on probation but I have a permanent full time contract, although today bizarrely I went to see Occupational Health, I see your concerns with being on a probationary period. My advice to to get advice from C.A.B. I cannot give anymore info than this Im afraid, but feel free to private message me. Good luck. Be strong.
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kreate
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Post by kreate on Jun 27, 2011 18:45:45 GMT
hey NoOnIsUnemployable, is Constructive Dismissal the same as Just Cause?
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kreate
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Post by kreate on Jun 27, 2011 18:54:56 GMT
P.S. If this is the case Trigger, the fact that this is effecting your health makes it simple if you need to get out of your situation, if you get what i mean?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 27, 2011 19:01:01 GMT
What's just cause?
Constructive dismissal is basically where your employer treats you so badly that you leave (usually because they want you out, but don't have any grounds to fire you). So your last post, kreate, is exactly why I mentioned this. Trigger was happy until adhd was disclosed.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 28, 2011 23:10:46 GMT
Clarification as requested:
As ditzy correctly states, constructive dismissal occurs when you resign your job because of the unreasonable conduct of your employer; the law on constructive dismissal does indeed protect you from being made redundant on the cheap. The practical upshot of claiming constructive dismissal is that, if successful, you're entitled to the same redress as if you were unfairly dismissed even though you resigned.
Just cause is slightly different, though related. It applies here in two senses. Firstly, an employer cannot bring disciplinary action against you without just cause, the point being that "just cause" is defined by law, not by the unwritten rules of the departmental in-crowd or the manager who doesn't like you. While we're on the subject, being disciplined without just cause may well contribute to constructive dismissal. Secondly, if you leave a job voluntarily it would normally make you ineligible for benefits, at least for a time. But if you had just cause for leaving, you are eligible for benefits in the same way as if the job had ended for reasons beyond your control.
Again: I'm not a lawyer, just a bod who's good at reading fine print (though I say so myself!). But back to trigger - I know I'm sounding like a stuck record here, but you're not alone and you're not without rights.
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trigger
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Post by trigger on Jun 29, 2011 15:04:53 GMT
Okokok I see the point of constructive dismissal, but, isn't that a bit of a gamble? I might end up worse off, with no job or references!
So sounds like apart from leaving and then complaining, I also can persue the case under equality and dda. I used to b 5 min late once a week on average although I also overslept by an hour on 2 or 3 occasions, all down yo restlessness etc. I was on the scheme for 11 months.
I have never accepted the change and always protested.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 29, 2011 16:36:24 GMT
Constructive dismissal is hard to prove and you always start from being unemployed Don't walk unless it is completely unbearable, it's better to be working and fight from the inside. It's a useful tool to wave at them and you appear to have a good case of bringing the DDA (disabilities discrimination act) into play - why would they need to risk assess and move anyone? You are anyone and making you a special case is discrimination unless everyone goes through the same. Write everything down carefully, have witnesses if possible and get more advice from a proper source.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 29, 2011 21:56:04 GMT
Yes, got a bit carried away expounding detail there - I should've made my first paragraph away up top a bit clearer.
I didn't mean to suggest that your next step should necessarily be to resign. I agree with Dave the Planet - it's a last resort. But you won't suddenly find yourself with no more legs to stand on if it comes down to a choice between leaving, and a serious breakdown of health. But I do stand by my advice to act rather than react - I think we're all in agreement about the value of keeping clear and specific notes.
I should also have explained my use of the word "tribunal" better. Employment tribunals aren't just for dismissal, constructive or otherwise. It's true they're only for cases where employment law, or an employment contract, has been broken, so it is still something of a last resort. But thinking in terms of how you would - in principle - present a case to a tribunal has two benefits I can think of. For one thing, it forces you to think clearly and proactively, and gives you some tools to deal with the situation. For another, that confidence tends to leak out and persuade an employer that it is in their interests to take you seriously. (Even if you don't directly threaten them with the t-word.)
There's one other point I want to make, but to make it clearly and succintly would take more energy than I've got tonight... will try again tomorrow!
Sorry - am in the middle of a bad patch sleep-wise. They happen...
zzz
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 30, 2011 14:00:19 GMT
[yawn... stretch...]
Anyway, it's tomorrow now. Actually, on reflection, what I was going to say wasn't that brilliant anyway. Good job I went to bed when I did.
(There's an old Jewish proverb: even a fool can seem wise if he stops talking.)
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