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Post by Deleted on Mar 28, 2012 20:52:48 GMT
This will probably cause a lot of debate. But what do people think about adhd as being a socially constructed illness.
obviously I feel strongly that there are physical genetically differences in brains of people with adhd but I also studied sociology as part of my degree so I have often thought that maybe adhd is only a problem in societies where this kind of behaviour is not desirable.
I often have thought that if I lived in a different country where the culture was different then maybe my symptoms would not be as evident and a barrier to my happiness/ success so maybe the society you live in actually has more of an impact on how you see yourself and others than the actual condition itself
I had a lecturer speak of adhd the other day in ...well... a discussing manor to be honest especially considering she is essentially influencing other people who will be entering the world of health care but anyway I did not say anything because I can understand why people think these things as it’s not easy to understand myself. she said that kids can’t go outside and play anymore so now they are naughty and distractible which makes doctors need to supply an answer for the behaviour and give it a name. Which not only gives the mother an answer but feeds the medical business that can produce a whole load more drugs that can be sold for billions? This is the medical model where society thinks drugs are the answer to illness. Other arguments surround that often it is more the idea that you are taking something which makes you feel better not the actual drug itself. Like a placebo.
I don’t agree with her and felt really uncomfortable at the time. but I do think about the social constructions around us every day and in fact most of my self esteem problems come about because I know I am different and it’s a problem because I don’t fit in to expectations and I cannot perform as others do in the society so essentially I am seen differently.
What does everyone else think? could it be that we’ve constructed a label meaning which has in itself to some degree become a self fulfilling prophecy ( this is where someone fulfils a label they have been given because they change the way they see themselves and then become that label)
It would be really interesting to see different views on this
Gem
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Post by Deleted on Mar 28, 2012 21:23:30 GMT
I think it would be nice to believe that it's just a matter of environment but I think the reality is that across all human societies there are universal norms, patterns of behaviour and 'characteristics.
I firmly believe the disorder is and has always been disruptive within family and larger groups wherever you go. The problem is in a largely sedentary and thinking/customer service based economical base it's harder to sustain an appearance of normalcy.
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Post by sherry on Mar 28, 2012 22:43:27 GMT
I can see why norms would consider it a socially constructed condition. I have studied social science and am well aware of social construction as a concept, but I do not believe that ADHD has come about due to social conditions. I firmly believe in the main it is a genetic condition that is hereditary. I think it has become more apparent due to changes in society making it harder for us to cope in some situations. I know stress makes me a lot worse and societal constraints make it harder to cope or at least more awkward to function. Your lecturer does have a point about the drugs industry, it is a growth industry and they are always looking to expand into new areas. ADHD must be a real hand rubber for them. I do wonder if more people are being diagnosed because is an easy answer to a problem that has an easy answer - drugs. ADHD was discussed as far back as the last turn of the century 1900 and something. It was called Kinectic disorder I think. I don't think children were kept indoors back in those days. Your lecturer needs to learn about her subject matter if she is going to teach it to potential health employees. I am glad I wasn't there I would have put her right on a few facts lol.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 28, 2012 22:57:28 GMT
Amen, there is a massive amount of clinical and scientific data supporting ADHD as a pervasive neurological disorder with evidence actually showing differences in brain structure and function.
Anecdotally I know as a sufferer that I have never been able to 'fit in' and that there is a significant difference in my behaviour to the normal. A difference I have discovered to my suffering that I have very little conscious control over.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 29, 2012 12:32:12 GMT
I am diagnosed with ADHD and I recognise it as a disorder but I fully agree that it is a socially constructed one. It's the Hunter in a Farmers world argument and I recognise it as true. There's nothing 'wrong' with the way my brain is, just like with autism, we just don't fit in to the way society is constructed. Society is skewed to favour the majority so what is seen as 'normal' is the way the majority are, and anything outside of that is considered 'abnormal' or a 'disorder'. This may not be right, but it is the way it is and I have to take medication to live in this world because my brain is not the same as the majority.
I could spend my life trying to change the world to fit me, but I don't have the time or the energy to do that because I already spend my life doing that in a different but area. (I'm a body image campaigner).
It's funny but with body image campaigning the 'abnormal' is the majority and the 'normal' is a tiny minority.
Gosh, that's got me thinking.
Dx
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Post by Deleted on Mar 29, 2012 12:36:38 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Mar 29, 2012 13:35:03 GMT
Sorry to post so many times at once but this thread has really got me thinking.
If we live in a world that favours the 'normal' what would the world now look like if we had been the majority?
This leads to what would the ideal world be like if it were built to make best use of our skills?
Way, way ahead of this, decades into the future, would it be feasable that ADHD people could break away and set up their own more favourable community/world?
Dx
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Post by Deleted on Mar 29, 2012 15:58:14 GMT
Really interesting comments from everyone! its amazing how subjective this condition is and how much discussion it can drive.
i know I’m different but i think its the world that makes this difference most difficult.
i can relate to the hunter idea... does anyone ever feel like they are never quite satisfied with anything ? always looking for more whether this be food, materials, successes. some internal force for stimulation and satisfaction on a continuous loop. i look around me all the time and see people who are quite content and just happy taking things as they come dealing with it efficiently. wih me its like a bull in a china shop thinking of al the possibilities all the negatives and what if's, nothing is ever good enough, maybe if i just saw what was in front of me i would not have half of the problems i do. its an extremely unfulfilling way to be actually. The worst is that i know this but i cant change the way im wired. incredibly frustrating !
D i think we share some passion for thinking outside the box. id be really interested to know more about your career, it sounds great ! I’ve done some campaigning around mental stigma and HIV. it was great!
Gem
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Post by sherry on Mar 29, 2012 22:37:27 GMT
Just to put the hunter gatherer thing on its head, which is complete bollox in my opinion. I always wanted to be a farmer!!
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Post by Deleted on Mar 31, 2012 19:59:02 GMT
I am 36, no qualifications and still don't know what I am here to do. I work in a office because it's safe an easy work, put me on a building site or farm..how would I fare..I don't know. I am about as good with my hands at building things as I am academic? So where is the middle road for me.
The best 2 jobs I have had is working in a warehouse picking and packing and working in a secondary school as a behaviour mentor! worlds apart.
I have had hundreds of jobs and only settled down in the last 5 years.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 1, 2012 15:50:56 GMT
Do you get the hunter vs farmer thing? I think it's supposed to be about brain types and how our wandering brain and sensation seeking evolved and not whether we fancy working on a farm or not. Although I'm sure you know that. :-)
Dx
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Post by sherry on Apr 1, 2012 18:46:01 GMT
If I was part of the majority and we all had ADHD I would probably do sod all lol. I think we are all fine as we are. We are perfectly normal in a different way. It is just a matter of slightly different wiring and brain chemistry. Non ADHDers are often boring anyway. We are funny, creative and have bags of energy. Grasp what you have and put it to good use instead of looking for the end of the rainbow. ;D
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Post by Deleted on Apr 3, 2012 13:37:10 GMT
Well said Sherry. But we are all at different stages. I was at the feeling sorry for self stage for a long time its hard to get out of that, especially if you have had alot of knock backs and your self esteem is zero but accepting yourself is the answer and that comes with time.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 3, 2012 13:48:33 GMT
Sherry and Meggie, absolutely. I'm learning to accept ADHD and myself as I am now and it's a relief. I did feel sorry for myself and still do on some days, but I don't want to be a victim any more.
Imagine the world if everyone did have ADHD. Perhaps there's a sit com in that somewhere.
Dx
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Post by Atticus on Apr 3, 2012 14:57:13 GMT
Clearly a rather ill educated lecturer. If you don't want to 'name and shame' would you like to let us know her contact details privately and we can point her to the evidence.
And strong evidence there is. Genetic evidence, fMRI evidence, and indeed a lot of evidence that makes it a much more solid phenomenon than many other psychological problems. Ask any parent with one ADHD child and other not - the difference is obvious and not to do with environment. Noticeably she mentioned kids, but lack of going out to play is not simply the problem with us adults.
Incidentally, even if it were to have been caused by the environment, that still doesn't mean it doesn't exist. If it were simply the normal reaction of normal kids to an odd environment everyone in those circumstances would have it, which isn't the case.
It may be that we'd do well in a different environment, but that is different. We are here at this time and place and we are stuck with it. Back when we ran round in the Savannah we wouldn't have needed the bits of paper the authorities expect us to have these days but we also would not have had any refined carbohydrates. If you argue that ADHD is caused by our society you might as well argue that diabetes is too. And in fact, that is a reasonable argument, but it tells about the history of humans and of disease, not anything about how you treat the problem.
Anyone bleating about how ADHD is a social construct and then gong on to suggest we shouldn't get treatment is a moral ostrich (yes, I know they don't really bury their heads in the sand, but you get my metaphor) and ought to be treated with the same disdain as anyone that tried to claim diabetes is a social construct and therefore shouldn't be treated!
Phew, rant over. Thank you for listening!
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Post by sherry on Apr 3, 2012 20:23:22 GMT
To be fair I got a bit depressed when I first realised the truth, but then I thought well that explains a lot. Then I tried meds which changed me into a normal feeling person (sort of), but I didn't like it, I actually liked being ADHD more, crazy I know. The worst part is the constant mess in my head. I found reducing stress considerably relieved my symptoms. I have rearranged my life and decluttered it and now I am coping most of the time. Work have been a lot more supportive than you could expect too. I have a great partner who forgives me my little foibles. I am lucky really.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 4, 2012 8:31:21 GMT
Hi Sherry, I went through the initial depression and denial too. I now go through stages with meds - I loved them a couple of weeks ago and was getting loads done, now I haven't taken them for a week and don't feel like taking them as I like being ADHD for a while.
It's great that your work have been supportive. So many people must struggle with the attitude of people at work. I work for myself.
My partner has changed towards me since diagnosis. He used to shout and blame me for being messy and disorganised, now he accepts it and is kind about it. I'm trying to declutter, but it's difficult. Did you chuck everything out? How did you do it?
Atticus, yes, ADHD is neurological, not psychological and there's lots of evidence for it not being socialy constructed. I think, though, society being constructed as it is makes a normal way of being into a disorder - so the fault is with society and not ADHD. This is very different from saying ADHD is a socially constructed disorder.
Does that make sense? :-)
I think the same way about autism.
I'm not expert, though.
Funnilly enough, I am having an argument with an eminent diabetes expert at the moment about the causes of diabetes.
Dx
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Post by Deleted on Apr 4, 2012 11:01:30 GMT
Hmm I gotta disagree with u on autism, ADHD in certain circumstances could be of benefit. An ADHD can self care for the most part, can be constructive and would probably cope quite well in a hunter gatherer existence.
A proper autistic would be left outside to die by more 'primitive' societies. The person cannot self care, is obstructive, disruptive and difficult and would be a burden on the tribe.
Not saying it's right just the way things are. ADHD and ASD are negative deviations from the norm let's not forget that. In our pc obsessed modern world we are encouraged to not acknowledge that disability is a negative. It is better to hear than be deaf, walk than be paralysed and be neurologically intact rather than aspie/autistic/ADHD. This isn't social construct, it's basic biology.
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Post by claudhopper on Apr 4, 2012 15:45:09 GMT
I don't think it's a non condition that has been invented by society it's genetic and brain structural in its differences. But how it is seen by the medical world eg 'attention deficit' implies that we have less attention than the social norm, which is true.
I can't really cope with it and need some help, maybe meds. I have stuff to do which have been waiting for months and I just can't get round to doing them. That's me not society. I guess the things I have to do are requirements of society...
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Post by Deleted on Apr 5, 2012 11:02:50 GMT
I see what you're both saying and I understand where you're coming from but my own experience of ADHD is that it has given me certain 'gifts' that I wouldn't swap for being normal. I come from a village of normals and how I think and how I experience life is, to me, a million times better than being normal. Yes, it's stressful, yes, I struggle to get things done and I let people down and mess up all the time but I'd much rather be me, doing the things I do and thinking the things I think than living the life that was originally expected of me 'in the village'.
For me, ADHD has many more positives than negatives. My endless and exhausting struggles through every day and my thrill seeking have brought me experiences and allowed me to create things that I'd never have done if I'd been a normal. I am and always have been under the impression that I can change the world (no I'm not bi-polar, this is a constant) and this drives me to keep on struggling and stumbling forwards.
Dx
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Post by sherry on Apr 6, 2012 20:38:05 GMT
Well said Dandelion!!
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