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Post by Jon on Jul 19, 2012 15:40:54 GMT
Hi there all,
I feel like a bit of a fraud posting this because I don't have a diagnosis of ADHD, but I'm in the process of things with the NHS, and I've just had a bit of an experience with the local Clinical Psychiatrist... and I'd like the opinions of people how do have a diagnosis of the disorder so I can put things into a bit more context.
It's the story from all the books: lifelong screw up, various issues that I tried and failed to get over, one day spouse goes on a course about madheads, durrbrains and ladyminds (btw, I'm quoting a Radio 4 Comedy there, not just being abusive!) where she hears about ADHD.
I didn't really believe in ADHD... but I read all the usual books (Driven from distraction, etc.) and... well.. yeah. That was me. The case studies were me, the symptoms were me... and so on. So I started doing some of the techniques that the books recommended, which also worked.
So, I went to my GP, did all the stuff the websites say you should do (WHO self reporting scale, NICE guidelines, family history etc.) and she referred me on to one of the Clinical Psychiatrists in Hackney.
Come the day of the appointment I go in there, I tell my story... and really early on I mention that the issues I identify as ADHD caused me to have trouble at University, which made me drop out from Anxiety issues I had due to my difficulties around studying (because of distractibility, procrastination, and so on.) We rattle on and she asks questions. She asks what I did about the Anxiety, I say that I never did anything, I just got a job that I was really bad at, which made it worse, but taught me to tolerate the Anxiety, which was a solution as far as I was concerned.
When we get to the end, she says that she doesn't think I have ADHD, but that I have anxiety and then goes to quote a lot of things that I either said and didn't mean in the way she understood them, or that I didn't actually say at all to explain her decision.
(NB, ANYONE WHO'S READ THIS FAR, THANK YOU)
I tried to explain and clarify a few things, but there was nothing doing. She did suggest sending me onto an ADHD specialist, but in a very eye-rolling, 'humouring-the-self-diagnosing-neurotic,' which brings me to why I'm here (i.e. THE POINT.)
I know I have troubles with Anxiety, but most of the troubles I have come from a reaction to being hyperactive, impulsive and inattentive. All the problems those things have caused in jobs I've worked in, in relationships and friendships, even during the act of sex.
At the end of the day, we live in a time where the NHS is being stripped of more and more money, so what I'm really here to ask is this: should I be looking for a second opinion, or am I just looking for someone who'll tell me what I want to hear? If it's just anxiety, then I don't need to spend anymore NHS money. I can stop it there.
Sorry, this started out with a point, but it's gone off a bit. Apologies.
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Post by twix on Jul 19, 2012 15:44:26 GMT
Like you said dealing with undiagnosed adhd is hard and can cause anxiety, see the specialist, find out for definite. Be aware that some of the Meds may not help anxiety, because they are stimulants, but they might help it if the adhd gets better.
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Post by Jon on Jul 19, 2012 15:55:28 GMT
Twix: thanks. You're right. To be honest, I'd be quite happy to try and deal with things drug free, just get coaching and some CBT (although if the Doctor says 'try the pill' I'll try the pill, no point seeing a medic if you don't do what they say!)
I suppose I just have a bee in my bonnet because my high anxiety period of my life was one phase of about three years nearly a decade ago and ever since then it's been blamed as the source of every headache, stomach ache, skin rash and muscle pain I've felt, and I'm at the point of just giving up and agreeing that everything does come down to Anxiety, so I might as well choke down the tranqs.
Anyway, I do go on a bit. Apologies. Thanks for the reply!
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Post by claudhopper on Jul 19, 2012 17:57:58 GMT
Jon. I am in a similar position to you. I have just sent a complaint to my local PCT about a psychiatrist who didn't diagnose ADHD. The crux of my complaint (8 pages!) was that the shrink didn't test for ADHD, used a stupid assumption (that my 70s teachers would have spotted 'something') and he isn't a specialist. I quoted loads of NICE guidelines stuff. specifically: at page 132: 5.17.1.1 A diagnosis of ADHD should only be made by a specialist psychiatrist, paediatrician or other appropriately qualified healthcare professional with training and expertise in the diagnosis of ADHD, on the basis of: ● a full clinical and psychosocial assessment of the person; this should include discussion about behaviour and symptoms in the different domains and settings of the person’s everyday life, and ● a full developmental and psychiatric history, and ● observer reports and assessment of the person’s mental state.
I suffer from permanent anxiety with red patches on both palms. I pointed this out to the psych who didn't respond at all. I am sure I have ADHD too and am not giving up. The continuous problems with non-specialist psychs reported in these forums has been a useful spur to keep up the pressure. Good luck ;D
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Post by Deleted on Jul 19, 2012 21:38:52 GMT
*sigh*
My first ADHD specialist took 4 hours of interviews to post-rationalise his initial snap judgment that I was too 'successful' to have had ADHD, so must be a neurotic woman with work-related stress and issues with my mother.
I got cross, got referred for a 2nd opinion, got a private dx while waiting, and eventually got my NHS dx a mere 22 months after my first chat with my GP.
I guess it depends how much you want it...or maybe, how bloody-minded you're prepared to be each time you get a knock-back. I'm now going through it all again in behalf of my daughter.
Totally get the 'yes, anxious, fair cop, but who wouldn't be anxious, with a mind like mine' thing. Funnily enough, all that cocking up and pissing people off unintentionally can get you down, too. Sorry, I mean 'depressed'.
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Post by Jon on Jul 19, 2012 22:39:19 GMT
Claudhopper: I hear ya, bro. My irritating thing is that when I told the Doctor about the Anxiety issues, it was only to illustrate the effect that possible ADHD had had on my life. I'm quite highly strung, but most of that comes from recurring situations where the repercussions of not being able to get things together because I can't concentrate, or because I've done something impulsive, or whatever. I'm not a worrier, I just get stressed at things I can't handle.
ooohshiney: I kind of got that too. I run my own guiding business, and I couldn't make her understand how hard it was, and how many times my life has gone down the toilet because of ADHD-like issues. Her other thing was that she discounted any symptom I've already learned to control: like butting into people's conversations, or my bad memory, or looking away when people are talking, and she wouldn't seem to listen to the ones that were still problematic, like the fact that I have to read every page three times because I get sidetracked when I'm reading, or my brain completely involuntarily skips a track and I realise a few minutes later that I've been turning pages while thinking of something totally irrelevant and I have to go back. She also got mildly offended when I utterly refused to talk about my religion (I was wearing a religious symbol, it's a sign of devotion, not an advert,) because I don't see what my faith has to do with whether I can concentrate or not. Oh, and I made an ill judged joke about OCD that really pissed her off, although I only noticed that later.
In short, I think she thought I was an asshole and decided to just grab on the first thing she heard. And I'm going to go for the ADHD specialist and see what he says. I don't have the money to even dream of going private, but if I go to someone who actually seems to believe in ADHD and they tell me I don't have a problem, then I'll just have to accept that it's me.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 20, 2012 5:35:27 GMT
More things chiming!
I got my referral when, in the middle of a sentence in the middle of a pretty intense conversation about ADHD symptoms with my lovely (now retired) GP, i lost my grip on her eyes, mine flicked over her shoulder and I blurted out 'ooh, you've had the wall re-plastered'. And I looked back at her, and said, 'now do you see what I mean? That's what my brain does to me all the time'. and she got it.
Did yours not get that the impulsivity of blurting out an 'off' wisecrack, that you wish you hadn't made, is both a symptom of ADHD and a reason for anxiety?
The work you have to put in to control the butting in is huge, isn't it? It's why I love meets - we all cut across each other, but you know nobody's thinking 'how rude!'
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Post by Jon on Jul 21, 2012 7:17:08 GMT
Ooohshiney: Re: Off Wisecracks.
Oh yeah, they're one of the things that I used to have huge problems with. I do still have a bit of trouble, but there was a time when I used to go home every day with my head in my hands regretting the things that had come out of my mouth while I was at work. I've developed a few strategies for coping now, which has really improved my life, but I still can't drink alcohol anymore because I just totally lose control over what comes out of my mouth, both in terms of impulsive exaggerations and ill judged comments.
Oh, and (sorry to be offloading this on everyone) here's an example of why I really want to get treatment: one of the things I do as part of my job is to run a Spooky London Pubs meetup. One of our regulars is a really great guy who just lost his partner... except I didn't know that, because when he told me about how she'd died... I was distracted, and although I nodded and said yes in the right places, I didn't take that in or remember it. You can imagine what happened the next time we saw each other. I would NEVER have done that voluntarily. That's a horrific thing to miss. Nobody could be such a lazy or horrific person as to think it was okay to ignore someone telling you something like that.
Oh, and... does ADHD affect your ability to socialise? One of the biggest problems I have is that I have days where I can do my job (just about) but I can't stand to talk to anyone because it's too difficult to concentrate on them. Even on better days I don't really like socialising or meeting new people because when you do that you have to basically promise to sit in one place and pay attention to one person. What I want to do is go to a pub, talk to someone for two or three minutes, then have a little wander around looking at things and come back for another two or three minutes... except that isn't considered acceptable. I've even been really burned and fallen out with friends because they get offended that I can't look at them properly or I tune out and come out with some random non sequitur based on my inner monologue.
And that's withthout the fact that I can get distracted WHILE GIVING A GUIDED TOUR (that being my job) which means that I sometimes skip bits of what I wanted to say, leaving my group staring at me in confusion because I've just told them something insane like, "During the Elizabethan period many buildings were based on timber frames of English Oak *SKIP* which was made from cow-hair, lime putty and sand."
Sigh. Thanks for listening. I was beginning to think that I'm imagining it. I suspect that one of the reasons finding this disorder was such an important thing for me was because it enabled me to forgive myself for a lot of things, which was a very powerful healing experience for me. The problem is, I don't like to look away from negative opinions. I'm not very good at judging myself, which leaves me with a constant fear of ignoring criticism because I don't want to delude myself. On the other hand... this does make a lot of sense... and although the first doctor didn't believe I had it... I really think she had an axe to grind. Back to square one...
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Post by twix on Jul 21, 2012 10:43:52 GMT
Sounds like you are in the right place to me. Anyway you could try the London meet in Costa, can't remember the details but have a look at meet up bit of the forum, no one there will think its odd if you wander round.
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jon
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Post by jon on Jul 21, 2012 11:12:46 GMT
Twix - I'll do that. Right now I'm back to being really confused and ashamed for wasting NHS money with my problem, but my wife still believes I have ADHD, and using the techniques for coping with it have immeasurably improved my life and my relationship. The biggest thing was being able to forgive myself for so many things. Getting this knockback was like having it all happen again.
I feel like such a fraud being here right now, and using all these techniques if ADHD isn't really my problem. I don't like disagreeing with a mental health professional... but the books I've read are like portraits of myself, and I was actually held back in a remedial class at school directly because I was staring into space and not doing my work.
Anyway, I'm preaching to the choir. I'll have a look to see when the next meetup is! Thanks to everyone who has read this.
Many thanks (you'll be seeing me again, I've just registered for the forum.)
Jon
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Post by claudhopper on Jul 21, 2012 21:01:20 GMT
Jon. You sound just like me. I can go whole days without speaking to anyone (except my inner dialogue of course). I get distracted in conversations unless they really something which interests me and that is rarely the case for the other person.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 21, 2012 21:12:01 GMT
Come to the meet! It's good to meet other people who don't have 'normal' conversational skills I was having a very serious conversation with one of my closest friends, where she was telling me about the impact of a stroke on her father's personality, and how she felt she'd still lost him, even though he was still alive...it was not long after my ADHD 'lightbulb' moment, but before I was dx and treated. My new self awareness stopped me a nanosecond before I interrupted her, mid-flow and tears in her eyes, to note that she'd changed her haircut. It's exhausting, having a 'normal' conversation. The effort - to remember to pay attention, to hold their stream of consciousness in your head while fighting off your own, to hold eye contact without the thought of just doing that taking hold itself, and booting out the conversation; to have to remember that it's important to resist the lure of everything else going on around you. It's exhausting, and if I don't have a very good reason for wanting to do it, frankly, I'll avoid it. I saw a fantastic description in a book, or somewhere, of how it feels, to have an ADHD mind that is happily trundling along on one track, then slips seamlessly from that scene to another without noticing where the director made the cut... ...and there it is. Anyone feel the join, there? But you all went from 'railways' into 'movies' mode without noticing it, didn't you? It's that simple.
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jon
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Post by jon on Jul 22, 2012 10:32:50 GMT
Odat and Oooshiny: Thanks guys. I think I'll definitely trundle down to the next London meeting in September.
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Post by ADD Partner on Jul 26, 2012 13:36:32 GMT
Jon, like your wife, I have recently learned about ADHD and realised that it explained my husband's odd mix of behaviours. The more I have learned from books, internet etc, the more convinced I am that he is a sufferer. I haven't yet mentioned it to him, because a couple of years ago, I talked to him about his depression and anxiety, and he went ballistic. He has real issues around any mental health problems. However, now, after a couple of years for him to mull over what I said, he is prepared to concede that he "has a tendancy towards anxiety and depression". The real point I want to make is that anxiety is a reaction to stress, whether real or imagined, and if there are no other obvious reasons for your anxiety, then it must be a reaction to your normal day to day lifestyle. ADD sufferers (unintentionally) create much stress in their normal lives, so it is not therefore surprising that anxiety is a common consequence. Go with your gut feeling that you have ADHD, and pursue your options. Best advice I can give is listen to your wife - she may be able to see things more clearly than you can from within the ADD "fog".
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jon
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Post by jon on Jul 28, 2012 9:51:58 GMT
Partner - thanks! I'll be honest, I have issues with mental health too, it's one of those things. Despite my father haivng mental health problems I still have this lingering shame and embarrassment about them. My other half is a massive asset, she's really helped me since we got married!
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