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Post by furiousfrog on Sept 19, 2012 11:18:19 GMT
Right - long story short (back story below) - my daughter's camhs worker is suggesting things that don't seem to be helping her. When I said I thought she may have ADHD, he's been quite dismissive and instead told us it may be time management issues
Can anyone offer any advice on what evidence / information I can put forward or how to be slightly firmer about this without him thinking I'm a helicopter parent that's being manipulated by my own daughter (I suspect this may be too late though).
Longer back story for those who have the attention / inclination:
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Post by boo on Sept 19, 2012 16:15:10 GMT
Have you thought about printing (or uploading into word or similar) a list of the actual symptoms checklist and then listing specific difficulties that your daughter faces against each one?
It is always difficult to try and think of things that cause a problem when there may be so many things, some of them not necessarily significant on their own, but combined with a whole heap of other (little or not so little) things can paint a very different picture.
Making the list may also be able to help you and your DD identify where she perhaps needs some more help and support, which in turn may make her feel a bit more in control of things that she may well not feel in control of at this moment in time. It can really help to actually see these things in black and white.... and not just for the specialists....
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Post by boo on Sept 19, 2012 16:17:47 GMT
ps
sorry if you have already been there and done that, i didnt notice you say that in your post is all..
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Post by furiousfrog on Sept 19, 2012 20:00:10 GMT
Hi Boo,
It's a good idea and I haven't done this, no. I've always been a bit reticent about stuff like that - I think I come across a bit bolshy and opinionated and I'm worried about getting people's backs up by suggesting they're overlooking something.
Do you think this would be an acceptable thing to do? Any ideas on how I could introduce it without sounding overbearing? (sorry to ask more questions!)
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Post by boo on Sept 19, 2012 20:32:42 GMT
if it were me, i would do as i said above and then introduce it for exactly what it is...... the facts, i would aproach it in a 'ok, i felt it would be beneficial to all of us, not least of all my DD, to really pinpoint where some of the more difficult.... well.... difficulties, lie'
it doesnt have to be bolshy, and i am sure it wouldnt be, and the more facts and actuals you are able to provide, the more they might be able to understand where you are coming from....
not saying you do this, but if they are just hearing vague, woolly, accounts that your DD has issues, but not really laying down exactly what those issue are, might be exactly what they need to dismiss you as a fussing mum with no real grounds for concern
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Post by Deleted on Sept 19, 2012 21:24:12 GMT
not that this is going to help much, but I read through the whole back story, and your DD sounds almost exactly how I was at school, so can definitely sympathise with you/her.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 19, 2012 22:57:57 GMT
It's really hard to stay calm when the system is letting your kid down. There's no silver bullet - tbh, I've had to just make a persistent nuisance of myself. I got very stroppy when I found out that the man in a white coat I'd been calling Dr P... , who'd refused to refer her for assessment because her school reporting of her symptoms didn't tally with my reports, and confidently told me she had dyspraxia when her fine motor skills were perfectly good - was a 'primary health care worker' who had no psychiatric or psychology quals whatsoever. I pointed out that only an ADHD specialist should be assessing her for ADHD.
Don't let them fob you off with an unqualified amateur.
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Post by furiousfrog on Sept 20, 2012 10:15:16 GMT
Thank you -the advice is hugely appreciated!
Have just had a look at the NICE guidelines and the DSM-IV criteria and I can't quite believe they've told me she doesn't really fit into an ADHD diagnosis.
She ticks every box for the inattentive subset and 4 out of 6 for the hyperactivity. I am worried about the ICD-10 criteria though as these seem to be concerned almost entirely with severe behavioural issues which has never been an issue since age 8.
What's your experience with the diagnostic criteria - what do people tend to use?
Will definitely take the DSM criteria with me though - I can provide recent and older specific examples of where she's reflected each of these points; is this overkill or would it be useful to do?
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Post by boo on Sept 20, 2012 19:21:23 GMT
i dont think it would be overkill, as long as the examples were concise-(ish), i think the more (relevant) information you can provide, the better, tbh. I really cant remember all of the diagnostics used for my DD or DS, but conners was def one of them for DD, cant even remember what mine was sorry i cant be any more help on that.............but ive slept since then
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Post by lambylottie on Sept 28, 2012 16:31:30 GMT
Hi Boo,
It sounds as though the GP has given you the wrong advice in going to camhs. He should be referring you to an ADHD specialist for your DD. I printed off a criteria sheet on which I had ticked off the ones that fitted the bill. I also printed off an article outlining the differences in girls with ADHD as apposed to boys and information on the various sub types.
Another good thing to do is to get a letter from any teachers who you may be able to get on side. Just to say that they have concerns and would support your view that she requires professional analysis.
Lottie x
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Post by Deleted on Sept 28, 2012 19:40:39 GMT
Update - my daughter had her assessment this week (by an ADHD specialist at our local CAMHS), and was given a provisional dx of 'mild to moderate ADHD'.
The specialist was very swayed by her school reports which, although peppered with references to not concentrating, not listening, not acting on instructions, not considering her impact on others, etc, still showed pretty good academic results.
Basically, the fact that she's super-bright is still acting against her - there's nothing 'mild' about her ADHD - but at least we now have a dx and an offer of a three-month trial of medication. Yay...I think.
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Post by annie on Sept 28, 2012 20:56:57 GMT
Well what can I say - other than you and your daughter are being given a very poor service from Camhs!!
Camhs is the right place for her difficulties to be assessed. In all areas of the country Camhs deal with young people up to the age of 16, with many Camhs teams taking responsibility up to the age of 18.
Adhd is one of the most common disorders Camhs teams deal with and many teams have developed a Care pathway for children who are suspected of having this disorder. You need to ask your Camhs worker what the Care pathway is for young people suspected with Adhd, in your local Camhs. Your Camhs worker (and you need to ask them what their qualifications are - psychiatrice nurse, social worker or whatever) sounds as though he is working at the initial screening level and really does not have the expertise to rule in or out Adhd.
Usually in Camhs there is an initial screening process and where Adhd is suspected both parents and school will be asked to complete some kind of screening form (often Conners) Frequently the connors returns from school and parent do not agree, largely because schools don't know enough about Adhd to adequately complete the forms accurately. When that happens Camhs will often go into school and do their own observation which often highlights difficulties in the learning environment which teachers have often not been aware of.
The history of your daughter is highly suggestive of possible Adhd. The fact she scored high in the Education Psychologist's assessment does indicate how well she could do if she didn't have a learning difficulty. It's highly significant that she had a lower score on the working memory test - something which will seriously impair her ability to do well in exams. Many bright children manage to get through school hiding their disability, but at enormous expense to themselves. However the challenges of A levels where more emphasis is on the student being able to organsie their own learning, is a huge challenge to children with Adhd. This is a time when the wheel comes off for lots of young people with inattentive Adhd.
You need to get in to the driving seat. Every Camhs worker will be working in a team which is overseen by a child psychiatrist and you need to insist you have an appointment with this psychiatrist. The psychiatrist is the only person who can confirm a dx of Adhd and should be the person who is directing what information needs to be collated, both from yourself and school to help inform the possibility of a dx.
There's a huge amount of information on this forum of adults who struggled through school only to find A levels/University was the time when, despite their enormous determination, this was the time when the "wheel came off"!!
Don't let that happen to your daughter
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Post by furiousfrog on Oct 1, 2012 8:15:44 GMT
Update - my daughter had her assessment this week (by an ADHD specialist at our local CAMHS), and was given a provisional dx of 'mild to moderate ADHD'. The specialist was very swayed by her school reports which, although peppered with references to not concentrating, not listening, not acting on instructions, not considering her impact on others, etc, still showed pretty good academic results. Basically, the fact that she's super-bright is still acting against her - there's nothing 'mild' about her ADHD - but at least we now have a dx and an offer of a three-month trial of medication. Yay...I think. Great news Boo - am really pleased for you! I think dx can be a bit of a double-edged sword but at least you have options and you're not just left to struggle on alone - I do think that the system works against bright kids, if you're managing to keep your head above water then they tend to ignore the underlying misery this causes. My DD told me she'd thought that everyone else was super-disciplined in order to be able to do their work and she felt weak and stupid for not being able to do something that everyone else could. In actual fact, I'm really very proud of her that, despite her fairly severe attention problems, she's managing to apply herself and got done as much as she has done. Let me know how your DD gets on!
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Post by furiousfrog on Oct 1, 2012 8:27:55 GMT
Many bright children manage to get through school hiding their disability, but at enormous expense to themselves. However the challenges of A levels where more emphasis is on the student being able to organise their own learning, is a huge challenge to children with Adhd. This is a time when the wheel comes off for lots of young people with inattentive Adhd. There's a huge amount of information on this forum of adults who struggled through school only to find A levels/University was the time when, despite their enormous determination, this was the time when the "wheel came off"!! Don't let that happen to your daughter Annie, Thank you so much for this! This is exactly what I went through and I'm determined not to let history repeat itself. Anyway, had a bit of a turnaround with CAMHS now. We went to the last session prepared with reports, DSM-IV criteria and specific examples of how this had caused severe problems. Turns out we didn't need any of it. My daughter has this habit of being extremely stoic about things and refuses to complain in case people think she's weak. I told her that it was important for her to not brush this off and make her camhs worker aware of how all this stuff made her feel. So, after last time I think she took this to heart. The camhs worker took her in alone and we didn't see him for the whole session. She came up with a fantastic analogy that she gave him about her attention being like a pack of cards, constantly flicking in her head and sometimes she'd drop a card and it'd fall in the middle of the pack and she'd often find it impossible to find the card again. I was impressed at how well she'd managed to communicate this! After his session with her, I think he's now concerned about her memory and has given us Conners 3 tests to fill out. I'm a bit concerned about the teachers at her school though. She often sits quietly in class and drifts off, and in secondary school this often goes unnoticed, so I'm hoping that's not reflected in the conners. However, if they observe her instead, then this will demonstrate her issues. I'm just so angry that it's taken her entire school career to get this identified and now, time is really not on our side. Regardless, fingers crossed! Thank you for all the help and advice, I can't express just how helpful it's been!
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Post by boo on Oct 1, 2012 20:04:15 GMT
haha
2 replies on the same thread to me, which arent replies to me
adhd much ;D
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Post by Deleted on Oct 1, 2012 20:50:19 GMT
Thank God! I thought it was just me!
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Post by furiousfrog on Oct 1, 2012 21:08:54 GMT
Oh why - what? Did I miss something? I replied to the right people, didn't I?
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Post by boo on Oct 2, 2012 17:53:21 GMT
Thank God! I thought it was just me! what, that replied to a poster, that wasnt the poster!!?? Oh why - what? Did I miss something? I replied to the right people, didn't I? Update - my daughter had her assessment this week (by an ADHD specialist at our local CAMHS), and was given a provisional dx of 'mild to moderate ADHD'. The specialist was very swayed by her school reports which, although peppered with references to not concentrating, not listening, not acting on instructions, not considering her impact on others, etc, still showed pretty good academic results. Basically, the fact that she's super-bright is still acting against her - there's nothing 'mild' about her ADHD - but at least we now have a dx and an offer of a three-month trial of medication. Yay...I think. Great news Boo haha.... no! ;D
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Post by boo on Oct 2, 2012 17:55:53 GMT
good luck with the meds trial shiny, fingers crossed, good news about the dx, in so much as you are not in limbo land anymore and can do something about it now...
..... about time really!
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Post by furiousfrog on Oct 2, 2012 19:57:30 GMT
Thank God! I thought it was just me! what, that replied to a poster, that wasnt the poster!!?? Great news Boo haha.... no! ;D[/quote] Ahhh...I... see... Oh well, at least I know I'm in good company!
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Post by furiousfrog on Oct 2, 2012 19:59:35 GMT
Oh, btw - filled out the Conners 3 forms yesterday and am a bit worried about what they'll think, but I did laugh.
My DD gave a "very much" for being unable to wait her turn, then a few questions later said she was happy and content to wait in a queue.
And then got very indignant when I questioned that she thought she had a good attention for detail!
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Post by furiousfrog on Oct 2, 2012 20:00:19 GMT
Oh, and also - congratulations Shiny!
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Post by lambylottie on Oct 7, 2012 9:41:36 GMT
Update - my daughter had her assessment this week (by an ADHD specialist at our local CAMHS), and was given a provisional dx of 'mild to moderate ADHD'. The specialist was very swayed by her school reports which, although peppered with references to not concentrating, not listening, not acting on instructions, not considering her impact on others, etc, still showed pretty good academic results. Basically, the fact that she's super-bright is still acting against her - there's nothing 'mild' about her ADHD - but at least we now have a dx and an offer of a three-month trial of medication. Yay...I think. Fab news! So glad that you have finally gotten somewhere with camhs. I didn't realise they had specialists in adhd. We were never offered this service. I guess this is something that needs to be addressed in the review of the SEN code of practice and the new overhaul of the SEN procedure in schools. The procedures and routes to diagnosis are so different across the country and there is no consistency and limited advice (from my experience) on what to do. I am a NQT currently trying to find my way into teaching and I hope to specialise in working with children with special needs in the near future. I am going to go on to hopefully do a masters in Learning disability and specialise in adhd as I find it so interesting and want to learn and hopefully develop new ways to support children's learning in this area. I am determined to dedicate my life to adhd advocacy and teaching and learning. My daughter has recently been diagnosed and I am being referred to an adhd clinic for assessment. I know this is not relevant (my adhd!) but just wanted to say that if more teachers and staff in schools were more perceptive then children wouldn't have so much delay in getting noticed. I want to work towards this in all schools.
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Post by lambylottie on Oct 7, 2012 9:45:40 GMT
what, that replied to a poster, that wasnt the poster!!?? Great news Boo haha.... no! ;D Ahhh...I... see... Oh well, at least I know I'm in good company! [/quote] Oh shoot! I've also replied twice to people on here meaning to reply to you (I think) but I am so confused now! Guess I am even more positive of my dx for adhd now!!!! lmao- There really is not hope for me!!
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Post by Deleted on Oct 15, 2012 18:14:31 GMT
Hi there, We've just been referred to CAMHS for family support, but im in two minds about it. We have a DX for my daughter of ADHD already. At her last appointment at Drs I mentioned my concern for her 3 siblings, the difficulties living with a sister with challenging behaviour etc and they suggested the referral. We went to the CAMHT appointment today and they want to talk to my 8yr old on her own, is this the usual without parents present, what will they talk about? Anyway we'll see how it goes, hope things improve and we gain some support. Simone x
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