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Post by claudhopper on Feb 3, 2013 14:26:25 GMT
says we should have a proper upbringing and schooling and says it isn't a proper disease with no objective test
fast forward to 24:50
what a knob
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Post by Kathymel on Feb 3, 2013 15:21:29 GMT
He starts talking about ADHD and dislexia at 24.50
"I don't imply that they are not real illnesses, they simply aren't"
Apparently there is no objective test.
"What is happening with things like ADHD and dyslexia is the making of excuses."
"In the case of ADHD, it's a consequence of bad upbringing, bad parents, extraordinarily bad schools, very boring schools ... "
Well, he seems to have got it all figured out; we can all go home now and stop whining. But hey, at least we have our parents and schools to blame our failings on.
The man obviously knows nothing about it. His opinion is unresearched and worthless, much like his opinions on the other topics he gets hot under the collar about. He deals in stereotypes and baseless rhetoric. He is one of the worst of the frothing Daily Mail journalists.
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Post by mighty on Feb 3, 2013 15:45:44 GMT
He's technically right though, you can't objectively test a mental disorder or learning difficulty. And although poor schools and bad parenting might not "produce" what we call ADHD, they no doubt exacerbate it.
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Post by Kathymel on Feb 3, 2013 16:12:35 GMT
There is peer-reviewed research that shows that people with ADHD and co-morbid disorders have measurably different brain structures, specifically in pre-frontal lobes and cortical thicknesses.
As usual, if anyone wants to read specific research papers, I may be able to get them. Might not be until later in the week though, as my internet access is limited Mon-Wed.
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Post by claudhopper on Feb 3, 2013 16:18:30 GMT
Also I think CAT scans show up low dopamine levels.
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Post by li0nberries on Feb 3, 2013 16:20:02 GMT
There have been differences found in adhd brains though haven't there? I thought they'd found some evidence to suggest different shaped or sizes in the adhd frontal cortex and I'm sure they found evidence of different chemical/hormone/whatever.
I (probably very obviously), know nothing about any of the sciences but, even my GP said they'd found differences in the adhd brains, neural transmitors.
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Post by li0nberries on Feb 3, 2013 16:24:57 GMT
I think while I buggered off halfway through typing to eat biscuits, kathymel and claudhopper put what I was trying to say, but intelligently :-)
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Post by mighty on Feb 3, 2013 17:15:32 GMT
This is true, but nobody actually gets diagnosed by these measures, like say, a cancer patient would get diagnosed by identifying the problem areas. These studies are so far all retrospective rather than predictive; i.e. we can't yet look into someones brain and "find" ADHD. Rather, we take people with an existing diagnosis based on subjective measures and identify potential structural differences (and lack thereof).
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Post by mighty on Feb 3, 2013 17:32:00 GMT
But also, I'd like to stress that this doesn't mean I share Peter Hitchens' opinions!! Just that mental health diagnosis is a minefield and sometimes counterproductive.
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Post by DKL - darkknightslover on Feb 3, 2013 17:32:48 GMT
Not yet because they need to define the parameters, and it's a very expensive test! You can be sure they'll be working on it though.
Sent from my GT-I9000 using proboards
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Post by mighty on Feb 3, 2013 17:39:27 GMT
The parameters would still be arbitrary though.. I mean, how do we decide the distinction between "healthy" and "disordered" ?? What about people sitting on the thresholds.. or those who meet the structural criteria but don't have distress in day to day life, and vice versa?? And is there any real benefit to it all?? I think we should just help people with their problems, forget the labelling to a large extent, and largely stop trying to medicalise differences in human nature.
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Post by li0nberries on Feb 3, 2013 18:32:54 GMT
The above statement sounds wonderful in theory but I doubt it will ever happen, as they are constantly trying to find more ways of putting larger numbers of people into fewer boxes.
I think diagnosis has its benefits, like this forum, without the adhd label wether diagnosed or not, it would not be easy to find a large group of people with similar symptoms and a lot of support and advise/information would be unavailable or far less easy to obtain. There'd be less understanding of how certain drugs effect certain groups and there would be more cost saving loop holes.
I think the biggest problem is that they have less and less provisions for individuals who don't fit their tick lists and these people are often not so able to fight their own corner.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 3, 2013 20:04:22 GMT
There is peer-reviewed research that shows that people with ADHD and co-morbid disorders have measurably different brain structures, specifically in pre-frontal lobes and cortical thicknesses. As usual, if anyone wants to read specific research papers, I may be able to get them. Might not be until later in the week though, as my internet access is limited Mon-Wed. ooh, yes please John
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Post by DKL - darkknightslover on Feb 3, 2013 20:37:42 GMT
You could ask the same of any hormonal condition "what level is a low/high level?". If people don't feel have a problem they they simply won't present themselves. They measure the test studies and controls to see how different they are and get it off that.
If there was a country that didn't rely on the kind of paperwork they have in most countries, with as low a corruption and crime rates and high levels of social tolerance for others (think Victorians...) as we're lucky enough to experience here and now in the UK, then I'm there!
Sent from my GT-I9000 using proboards
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Post by Kathymel on Feb 3, 2013 21:27:44 GMT
Jonboy, if you pm me your email address, I'll see what I can dig out tomorrow. x
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 5, 2013 7:32:38 GMT
Thanks kathymel, I will read them as soon as I am able to.
John
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sirci
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Post by sirci on Feb 8, 2013 23:27:01 GMT
Silly man I feel sorry for him.
I had a great upbringing and went to a very good school and I am quite intelligent so I must not have ADHD. Poor guy must be very bad at his job as a journalist as he clearly has done no research at all.
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Post by mighty on Feb 9, 2013 4:02:25 GMT
I'm more worried about his stance on drugs than adhd tbh..
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