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Post by mighty on Aug 14, 2013 15:41:18 GMT
I think a lot of tangential things, so decided to write a little log, all welcome to read. This way will avoid starting a fuckton of new threads.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 14, 2013 16:10:54 GMT
Will read with interest
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Post by Deleted on Aug 14, 2013 16:30:27 GMT
Where the fuck's this log then?
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Post by jan on Aug 14, 2013 16:43:57 GMT
hang on - give him a chance the ideas just been born ther's gonna be at least 2 weeks procrastinating before he gives birth
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Post by Deleted on Aug 14, 2013 18:32:13 GMT
I thought he'd forgotten to paste a link or I was missing it
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Post by Deleted on Aug 14, 2013 19:08:33 GMT
That would be the devoid of brain disorder surfacing again
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Post by mighty on Aug 17, 2013 18:07:30 GMT
Thanks Suppose I'd better write something! Gonna write about MOMENTUM. Been thinking a lot about it lately, seeing as I'm winning it over onto my side! It's part of a successful life I believe.. and requires small consistent efforts. Eventually they'll pay off and grow into something wonderful Like all people, I gradually drift into inertia if I don't have a goal (especially given the nature of ADHD/MH-related difficulties). It's so difficult to get out of, initially. But I found that just realising that success requires consistency and time is the first step. Like a lot of you I'm sure, my natural tendency is to start things and then get bored of them, before starting on something else, or worse, giving up entirely - resulting in a lot of wasted efforts. I now do things a little differently. I've taken to setting myself goals at the start of each month (and sometimes midway through). This month I intend to finish the french course I'm doing, write every day (second month running!), stick to my exercise programme (60 days total), and I had a couple of book reading goals too (incidentally just finished one of them so will be aiming to finish another by september!). Reading is one that is definitely paying off. I hadn't finished a book for years until recently. Now I'm blitzing through them, ONE AT A TIME. I write these goals down with rough deadlines, plus any life-related tasks on an app called wunderlist. Next month I intend to stick to some of the stuff I've been doing the last couple of months, start writing down my dreams again so I can start lucid dreaming more often again, start on a more advanced french course, and read a book a week. Back to momentum... I NEVER would've imagined getting all these things done a few months ago, and if I'd have tried to start it all right away, I'd have surely failed. Introducing small life improvements was key, such as just trying to finish ONE book, doing my writing, and a little french at least every other day. Just in the same way as we can spiral into depression and inertia when we stop doing things, I've found that we can also spiral into productivity! I'm now in better shape than I've been in years, thanks to exercising consistently rather than on/off; I'm slowly reaching fluency in french, for the same reason; I'm getting the things I need done; and I'm growing better at it all every day A couple of notes - There are of course bad days, and continued difficulties. I still don't meet all my deadlines, but I'm certainly getting there. There are days when I've not been as productive as planned, and these are dangerous, because it's incredibly easy to let one day turn into two, into three, etc. I find just doing SOMETHING to get back on the horse, even though it requires a lot of effort, is key. At my previous lowest, this has been simply getting out of the house for an hour rather than staying in bed all day. Also, for those who are interested, I'm on medication and have been trying to tweak it so that I take as little as possible, and "cement" my improvements while off medication. I am currently cycling them, so that I go without for a little while, try to be as productive as possible, and taper back onto them when needed. I then taper off again when I feel ready and have the opportunity. There is of course the possibility that I am hypomanic and may lose all this within a month, as has happened in the past. This is far less scattered though. I feel great and I'm actually achieving stuff, not doing anything too stupid, and am ready to think about long term goals. I've gained a lot of insight into my mental health over the years. Although it's still not perfect, I've managed to ease and prevent my highs and lows as much as I can, and still getting stronger. Finally (hope this doesn't sound hostile!), for anyone who is thinking "his life isn't as stressful/busy/difficult as mine", or "his symptoms can't be that bad then", you're wrong! I've worked fucking hard and it's not been easy! There are still many failures that I haven't spoken about, which I'm trying to piece back together - I'm still a long way off but getting there! I also work full time hours and there have been other time-consuming stresses I'd prefer not to talk about. I know I am luckier than some of you and have some medication which has been somewhat beneficial, although I believe the medication is supplementary rather than central to larger changes. Final thoughts for this post. I believe that in the same way a blind person is able to compensate for their lack of sight by fine-tuning other senses, somebody with concentration difficulties can compensate by using various strategies. I also think that you can LEARN to improve concentration, in a Hebbian/neurological sense. Of course it may not ever be identical to that of a "normal" person, but you can still improve.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 17, 2013 18:39:38 GMT
Thanks for writing this mighty, it has given me food for thought. Other than depression (which is a lot more under control now) my biggest problem is the vicious cycle of inertia and procrastination. Sometimes I break through it for a while - talking hours here, not days usually!, But then I get locked back in it again, and as you will know, there are lots of bad side effects from inertia. I feel like it is a code to crack which as yet I have not worked out. And each time you break out of it, and then get locked back in - its like negative reinforcement that you can't do it, which leads to hopelessness which makes it even harder to make the effort to break out again. Hope I'm making sense.
Trying harder, which is what my brain tells me I should do doesn't work. I need new approaches.
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Post by mighty on Aug 21, 2013 17:50:06 GMT
Have you tried any mindfulness techniques Petra? If you're in a loop it might be better than reinforcing hopelessness. Otherwise as I say, starting small and consistent is good
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Post by Deleted on Aug 21, 2013 19:55:02 GMT
Hi Mighty. I have this book and cd on mindfulness. Problem is, I only ever manage (well twice) to get about 20 pages into it. And it says you're supposed to practice it everyday for 8 weeks to start seeing good results - and therein lies the problem - the discipline of doing something disciplined EVERY day - that's why I got the book in the first place!!!!!
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Post by mighty on Aug 21, 2013 20:58:21 GMT
Try it! This is the kind of stuff I was talking about, getting into the habit of doing SOMETHING It's so difficult at first but keep going, if you miss a day do the next Do it before you do anything else in the morning!
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Post by Deleted on Aug 21, 2013 21:35:44 GMT
This strikes fear into my heart!!! But, I'm going to get the book and cd out again and give it another go. Can I come crying to you if it, and I all fall apart?!!
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Post by Lesley on Aug 22, 2013 13:44:49 GMT
Glad to hear you're going to give the mindfulness a try again, Petra. And well done for even attempting it with only a book and CD to help you.
If there are classes near you and you can afford it, it would be well worth doing an 8-week course. I did this in May and June, and I'm really glad I did. (I also have a book - the one about mindfulness for people with ADHD - which I read, but didn't even start the exercises). It was a condition of the course that you do an hour's home practice 6 days a week, but of course they're not standing over you making you do it, and though I was very good about it for the first week-and-a-half it was downhill all the way after that! But even with the weekly class and doing the home practice sometimes, I found it really useful. I let it drop once the course was over, but having the experience of how helpful it can be is giving me the impetus to go back to it. I'm just about finished sorting out a room in my house to be a better place to practice than the living room where I was doing it before, and then I plan to go back and start working through the course workbook again starting in week 2. I may even start it today!
The other reason for doing a class is that you will meet other people trying it out (for a whole variety of reasons) and there is a least the possibility of both paid-for follow-up classes and workshops and also of a self-help group getting together to keep each other on track. A monthly "top-up" could be very useful. (I have a date for one led by my tutor in September, but I can't make the date! Perhaps next time).
Lesley
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Post by mighty on Aug 22, 2013 17:58:14 GMT
Awesome I'd be tempted to start on the 1st of September, and make it a goal for that month, if you haven't started already Otherwise try to get to the end of this month first Also, will write another block of text soon, not sure what on yet!
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Post by Deleted on Aug 22, 2013 21:51:55 GMT
+1 for instructor led classes
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Post by Deleted on Aug 23, 2013 20:36:53 GMT
Lesley, have you tried other self help stuff too? What did you find so good about mindfulness? I am going to have a look round for groups as I don't think just me, my book and cd are going to make it on our own!! But I don't want to throw the baby out with the bath water if it is genuinely that helpful.
It appears to have amazing reviews, but I would like to hear amazing reviews from inattentive adhd people too!!
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Post by JJ on Aug 23, 2013 21:14:17 GMT
Lesley, have you tried other self help stuff too? What did you find so good about mindfulness? I am going to have a look round for groups as I don't think just me, my book and cd are going to make it on our own!! But I don't want to throw the baby out with the bath water if it is genuinely that helpful. It appears to have amazing reviews, but I would like to hear amazing reviews from inattentive adhd people too!! www.bemindful.co.ukHas info on courses near you - is on the mental health foundation website - so a 'proper' place xxxx
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Post by Deleted on Aug 23, 2013 22:25:08 GMT
Thanks for that link JJ - will have a look xxx
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Post by Deleted on Aug 23, 2013 23:51:50 GMT
The nearest course is a bit of a drive away, and its £300. They do a 4 week online course for I think £60, sounds good but I've got a really bad track record with online courses.
So, for now, I have ordered a mindfulness book written for people with ADHD. If I get more sold on the idea, I will look at the above again.
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Post by JJ on Aug 24, 2013 0:15:31 GMT
The nearest course is a bit of a drive away, and its £300. They do a 4 week online course for I think £60, sounds good but I've got a really bad track record with online courses. So, for now, I have ordered a mindfulness book written for people with ADHD. If I get more sold on the idea, I will look at the above again. That's sooooooo much money Agree about online courses.... And home study courses......
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Post by mighty on Aug 24, 2013 18:07:35 GMT
Gonna write some thoughts on mindfulness as it seems appropriate! I can't remember who said this, or if I made it up, but I imagine distinguishing between mindfulness and rumination like a full glass of water. Imagine somebody has stuck a spoon into the water and swished it around so that it has made a choppy little whirlpool. That's can be likened to a stressful situation or feeling, or thoughts. You could meddle with the water, try to fight the choppiness by swirling it the other way, but you'll just cause it to splash out of the glass and become more choppy. Trying to "fight" unpleasant thoughts turns them into an enemy - one that will always be as strong as you, because it IS you. The alternative is to observe and let it pass. If you want, mutter a quiet "I'm bored, don't bother me right now" if you have to! If you take a step back and leave the water alone, eventually it will settle into a calm stillness. Operative word is eventually.. it doesn't happen straight away. But be patient and it will sort itself out. Anyway that's my take There's some research out there linking mental disorder to poor rationalisation abilities and compromised prefrontal activation. Some people are able to tune in their prefrontal cortex when their amygdala is having a bitch fit, and settle the emotional activity down (being very simplistic here obviously!). Others, usually the depressed, go the other way and actually become detrimental towards themselves when they try regulation strategies. The pathways are somewhat reversed and they just end up ruminating and making it worse in the long term. In which case, mindfulness bypasses this spiral. You don't need to try and access anything rational as such, i.e. you don't have to think "it will be ok because I had a friend and they were OK when this happened yadda yadda". You just let it flow, and be. Observe, let it pass, chill. And over time, your emotional struggles become manageable and reduced
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Post by JJ on Aug 24, 2013 20:11:06 GMT
V interesting - and v well explained
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Post by mighty on Aug 24, 2013 23:44:09 GMT
Thanks Thinking about writing a blog someday, or even a book, helping those dealing with mental health struggles in a scientific but readable way! So gonna keep writing on this first, as I don't really care much about the readability.. so it actually gets written! Might return for inspiration someday Gonna write a little piece about depression soon
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Post by Deleted on Aug 24, 2013 23:56:19 GMT
So how do I 'do' mindfulness? Sit in a quiet room and think of trees? Think of white space? Can someome sum it up in 20 words or less?
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Post by Deleted on Aug 25, 2013 2:53:55 GMT
Mighty, you are clearly gifted in this area. I think it's a really good idea to write it on here where you can just type and like you say not worry about readability - though I have no problem understanding you - you write very well. For you - it gets it down, and for me for one, I am finding things you say genuinely thought provoking and helpful. The big bonus for me is being able to ask questions and get feedback through the lens of adhd. I have read so many self help books, been to counselling, had CBT, and done 'wellness' courses. I now know why I 'failed'at all these is because I have ADHD! So if all these 'techniques' could be put across and discussed in a way which can penetrate the ADHD barriers - well lets say there is a market for it!! I am looking forwards to hearing you on depression. This has been a major part of my problems in life though I now see a lot of stress and depression I've had as having adhd at the root and source of it, and I think that triggers my bipolar which doesn't need triggering as it has quite a life on its own!! But all these things do overlap. Re mindfulness - that was awesome what you wrote, I will re read it again tomorrow. If when you get round to it, your answer to Michael will help to - the nuts and bolts of it in plain English!!
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Post by jan on Aug 25, 2013 10:59:44 GMT
hya petra and mighty petra wonder if there's any meetup groups in your area ? look up meetup - all one word on internet - its really big in london - there's loads based on mindfulness and have seen its in Liverpool as well so maybe all over the country - its just like minded people setting up groups to meet up and do stuff together and its usually free this thread is amazing and am very interested mighty - you explain things very well - looking forward to reading more
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Post by cheekybuddha on Aug 25, 2013 11:34:52 GMT
I remember doing a mindfulness exercise once, we were given a piece of fruit and were free to eat it. Then the group leader got out more fruit and passed it round, this time we were to observe the fruit, it's appearance, texture etc. we then ate the fruit again, noticing its tastes, smell, textures, all around the mouth, feelings it evoked etc
Helped us to focus on the moment and the fruit tasted so much better the second time!
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Post by mighty on Aug 25, 2013 12:38:59 GMT
So how do I 'do' mindfulness? Sit in a quiet room and think of trees? Think of white space? Can someome sum it up in 20 words or less? I must confess I've never officially learnt how to practice it - I was "doing" it for a while before I knew what it was! My understanding is that you simply notice your feelings and observe them non-judgementally. This doesn't have to involve sitting in a quiet room or anything (for me at least), just next time you notice some tension or your thoughts bothering you, don't get sucked in by having an internal conversation about it, or worse, trying to "force" them out of your head. Just notice everything about the thoughts, don't intervene. You'll start to realise why they are there and what type of tension they are causing.. eventually you can just let them go Mighty, you are clearly gifted in this area. I think it's a really good idea to write it on here where you can just type and like you say not worry about readability - though I have no problem understanding you - you write very well. For you - it gets it down, and for me for one, I am finding things you say genuinely thought provoking and helpful. The big bonus for me is being able to ask questions and get feedback through the lens of adhd. I have read so many self help books, been to counselling, had CBT, and done 'wellness' courses. I now know why I 'failed'at all these is because I have ADHD! So if all these 'techniques' could be put across and discussed in a way which can penetrate the ADHD barriers - well lets say there is a market for it!! I am looking forwards to hearing you on depression. This has been a major part of my problems in life though I now see a lot of stress and depression I've had as having adhd at the root and source of it, and I think that triggers my bipolar which doesn't need triggering as it has quite a life on its own!! But all these things do overlap. Re mindfulness - that was awesome what you wrote, I will re read it again tomorrow. If when you get round to it, your answer to Michael will help to - the nuts and bolts of it in plain English!! Thank you so much, wouldn't at all say gifted though! Got so many ideas to write out, will continue using this space as a platform
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Post by jan on Aug 25, 2013 13:25:24 GMT
i would - say gifted I mean hey petra ive got the adhd mindfulness book - the one that's got word ' prescription' in the title - had it since april and not even opened it - its got cd as well - why don't we (and anyone else that fancies it ) get together and do it together on here - then can encourage/remind each other and share our experiences in adhd language, may be more likely to get it done than on a regular online course - i'm assuming its got excercises you have to follow - what you reckon ?
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Post by JJ on Aug 25, 2013 13:49:49 GMT
I don't know if it comes under 'mindfulness' exactly, but it sounds similar anyway -
I had a lot of success with stress / anxiety / sadness a few years ago doing this - which I read in a book - I think called 'The Endorphin Effect' :
I had to think of a few things that made me happy, but happy in a specific way - which is when you feel a momentary bodily reaction.
Examples explains better:
- you know when you look in on your child at night, they're sound asleep, angelic and peaceful and you get that lurch of overwhelming love in your head and tummy - that warmth. - or someone might do something for you or say something to you that really touches you - and there's a momentary lovely feeling in your head and possibly body - or occasionally you might be out somewhere, maybe at sunset as an example, look up and get momentarily filled with awe at the beauty or magnificent or vastness - or if your child unexpectedly comes up to you and hugs you and says they love you - or that feeling you got when you found out you'd passed your exams / got a new job / got a new home / whatever
I hope I've explained this properly - the things have to be when you get a lurch of warmth / happiness / joy / awe / pleasure, they're emotional feeling sensations and also tangible, physical ones.
Sooooo, the process was to regularly recall these memories and so you regularly experienced these physical sensations. These physical sensations are caused by a release of endorphins (which are the feel-good chemicals). So overall, your body and brain is being exposed more often to feel-good chemicals, which enhances mood and decreases stress and anxiety.
By regularly, I mean trying for once an hour (it needs practice).
At the same time, you were supposed to try and be aware (mindful) of things around you and really experience them and appreciate them. - So as ch b said, when you eat something, notice how nice it tastes and then think you're grateful for that pleasure, however small. - Or if you're out and it's windy, actively focus of the sensation of wind blowing through your hair and how nice that feels.
After taking more notice of things, you might then experience more of the 'tummy lurch' moments - which you can add to your regular ones - which then adds to your endorphin releases.
I did this for a few months and I can honestly say, it made a massive difference to my anxiety levels and it improved my happiness (though the most noticeable was the effect on anxiety / stress)
You do have to remember to do it though - and it requires effort - I had a huge motivating reason for it at the time, so I did do it regularly for a few months - I stopped when I lost that motivating reason...
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