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Post by Wavey75 on Oct 21, 2014 9:34:29 GMT
I have a friend of mine from university that does something that confuses and frustrates me greatly and I really want to know why.
He’s 10 years older than me, less technically minded, but still we’ve been doing the same courses now for 4 years and with another 2 years to go, there’s going to me more contact between us.
He lives near me, been to my house, and I to his, etc. But he works in a local university and when we have studying or assignments to work through we’ve often met up there in a classroom and I’ve gone through the technical stuff on the whiteboard for him, whig has helped him greatly and re-enforced my understanding and given me a little experience teaching, as it’s something I’m considering doing after I complete my studies.
We’ve socialised afterwards, but our partners haven’t met and it’s doubtful they ever will as my family have heard our phone conversations and they’re not interested, perhaps his family have heard mine and aren’t interested either, who knows.
The problem is that he has Facebook & email, a smart phone and a house phone and when I try them all to get in touch with him during times I know he’s free, he doesn’t answer me back, he goes quiet or shits himself off.
A few weeks later he’ll ring me out of the blue and carry on like nothing’s happened and we’ll have a conversation, again where he’ll suggest meeting up and I’ll agree, then when it comes time to firm up a date, he says he’ll ring me and then the cycle starts again.
I think I’ve been used in the past as he’s needed my help to get through his assignments, but he’s been as much of a benefit to me as I have to him. He’s constantly thanking me for my help and telling me things like if it wasn’t for me, he’d have no chance at his degree, something I agree with as he’s made a few blunders and often ignored my advice which has turned out to be right every time.
This is a type of person, but what type of person is this and what’s the problem, why does he cut himself off from the world, I’ve had the chance to ask him and he goes quiet and says he doesn’t know why in a soft voice, which is unusual for him as he’s often talking so much I think he loves the sound of his own voice.
I’d really like some help figuring this guy out, he’s not my boyfriend! but I don;t understand this guy and I think I keep in tough with him because I can’r figure him out and my curiosity has now taken over and he’s a puzzle for me to solve, rather than a fair weather friend or acquaintance.
I've considered he might be on the ADHD or ASD spectrum, but he'd never consider it, he thinks my diagnosis is a mistake - he says I'm too intelligent to have any disabilities, etc. I know this is pure ignorance to invisible disabilities, but there you go, older generation and there set ways.
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Post by JJ not signed in on Oct 21, 2014 10:12:43 GMT
I completely get the way he acts - I do it myself a lot - and from what I've read on here, I think it's an adhd thing (or at least a non-NT thing).
If I'm feeling depressed or low I shut myself off and don't talk to anyone.
Even if I'm feeling happy, I feel pressured if someone wants to contact me or meet up. So I ignore all attempts to contact me. It's nothing to do with the person or how much I like them, it's very much my own issues, I just get too overwhelmed.
When I feel like this, I can't even answer a text message, nothing at all.
Then a bit later, either just because time has passed, or when the pressure feels off, I'm very happy to contact them / meet up / etc - and act as though nothing's happened - which it hasn't really.
I don't know why I do it, I just feel pressure and need time alone / away.
My friends know this is the way I am and accept it and (mostly) don't take it personally now.
You already said you think he might have adhd or ASD - and I was going to say he might have adhd too.
And I think we tend to have relationships / get on with with other non-NT people more anyway - so it wouldn't surprise me that you have a friendship with someone with adhd or ASD, albeit undiagnosed and unaware....
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Post by supine on Oct 21, 2014 11:33:45 GMT
Have you considered actually asking him in a non-confrontational way? I know that personally I am baffled by people who act/react in a certain way, but will never tell me to my face what they are thinking or ask me any questions that might reveal if something I have said or done has provoked their reaction. I would love it if someone asked me rather than just reacting, disappearing or whatever and never telling me why. "but there you go, older generation and there set ways." How old do you have to be to be classed as 'older generation' and what about it makes you think they are all set in their ways? It's true that the mind loses it's edge as you get older, but it is more than compensated for by lack of override from the old emotions
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Post by Deleted on Oct 21, 2014 11:39:13 GMT
What must it be like to be born deaf?
Sign language is another language - they aren't communicating in English.
So they live in a foreign world. Like we do.
I've spent 53 years looking in on a foreign land and talking/not talking to NTs. In some ways the deaf are at an advantage - their invisible disability is easy to spot.
On a good day (relaxed, meds in proportion) I think I've got it pretty nearly right and can be a joy to be around - and vice versa.
One of my favourite NT comments is 'but this morning you were in such a good mood' - it makes me laugh because in the last five minutes I'd probably have been in several different moods, never mind this morning.
How can a mood last all day?
Examine a fireworks factory - production is spread amongst small buildings, widely separated with nothing that makes sparks allowed...and still they blow up on a regular basis. Apart from lightning it will all be human error. Aren't we like that?
I'm deffo a firework. Short fuse, enticing wrapper, makes a lot of noise before being spent (has my GF hacked my laptop? - boom boom, the jokes are writing themselves).
Today is not a good day. I've got man-flu and you can tell I'm not firing on all cylinders - this post is a fractured mess, my ADHD is turned up to 12.
Conclusion - don't try too hard. If someone gets you then go along with it coz they might stop.
Now that's quality rambling.
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Post by Wavey75 on Oct 21, 2014 13:58:26 GMT
Thanks for the comments guys, a real eye opener.
It's taken all of this year, since I was diagnosed to identify it and remember to recall it to others to understand his behaviour.
I'm 39 from South London, he's 52 and from Manchester, a real grafter and genuine guy.
There's usually a subject change on his part when ever we've gotten close to discussing his behaviour, but he usually runs away from it with a quick subject change to distract me (which has worked every time!) or the conversation ends.
He has really only ever made time for me when he needs me, not the other way round.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 21, 2014 15:31:11 GMT
Wavey75. In binary terms and not including the subtleties associated with other spectrum conditions i.e. if we're talking about an NT, as opposed to what JJ and you might be thinking is another ADHDer, then this has been a common experience for me all my life. From a kid growing up to middle-aged adulthood. I'm traditionally a crowd pleaser - someone who gives himself as a fast track to acceptance, so that means offering services free-of-charge to NTs, or being compromised because I'm often too eager (impulsive) to reject people's cynical advances because I'm worried I might offend them - a short term strategy that rarely pays dividend IMO. But it's taken me this long to be able to recognise, stop and reverse those impulses. In fact, it took one hell of a bad situation to question and understand my motives and get to where I am now. I said something to a neighbour last year - a person to whom I'd always help out at a moment's notice over the years, but who rarely helped me back. I didn't aim anything directly at her, but I told her that another neighbour, whose deceased wife's tape recordings of her singing I transferred to CD, didn't pay me for the materials I'd bought let alone give me any recompense for the hours meticulously converting everything (hyperfocussing). And I suggested to her that these sort of relationships are abusive. She soon backtracked embarrassingly and she's since moved out of the area never to contact us again - despite all my help over the years. She flinched when I told her the story and knew exactly where I was coming from. But I looked back and realised that there was never a friendship there in the first place. It was all in my head. If you give certain people stuff they want, they often take it without question, but reject all the ancillary baggage that surrounds your personality that they deem to be defective. A sort of cherry-picking of the best bits if you like. Real friends don't cherry-pick, they take the rough with the smooth and confront the bits they don't like in order to live with them and make the relationship work. I've learnt that some NTs see ADHDers, or those symptomatic of the condition, as useable gift horses, that are often great fun to be around, can offer certain 'perks' but unreliable and embarrassing to those they look up to or revere. If your friend is an ADHD, then I suspect he'll be very empathetic to you surrounding his failings once he realises. If not, I doubt he'll risk putting you ahead of his own needs. And f***ing hell. Do I know the times I've helped fellow uni students in the past to get past their misunderstanding of core material only for them to perform better at the right time. Grrr Just my view
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Post by supine on Oct 21, 2014 15:47:45 GMT
It sounds like one of those relationships where you have to balance up how much benefit he is being to you, since that is the footing that he has put it on. Just don't let yourself get taken for a ride
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Post by Deleted on Oct 21, 2014 16:06:31 GMT
Just to add, I think NTs are better at survival in the modern world than we are - after all, as the majority species they have modelled that world around their behaviour, not ours. So NT cherry-picking of the best bits within relationships could be one of their survival instincts.
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Post by JJ on Oct 21, 2014 17:16:27 GMT
@addjourneyman makes very good points I think
I didn't think about it from that view and, in fact, only in the last couple of weeks I've realised that a 'friend' of mine is actually all about what I can provide for her but when I needed help a couple of weeks ago (which I sooooo rarely ask for) she was no where to be seen.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 21, 2014 17:26:08 GMT
@addjourneyman makes very good points I think I didn't think about it from that view and, in fact, only in the last couple of weeks I've realised that a 'friend' of mine is actually all about what I can provide for her but when I needed help a couple of weeks ago (which I sooooo rarely ask for) she was no where to be seen. In fact, I find we, as ADHDers, don't like to impose on other people (empathetic struggle?) and suffer when we have to do things independently (overwhelmed with the amount we have to do) whereas NTs would otherwise delegate and make the most of opportunities arising....I think
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Post by Wavey75 on Oct 21, 2014 18:33:48 GMT
Thanks for these comments, they're great!
Now I'm thinking that I need a copy of the book stu the cockatoo was new at the zoo, to learn how to make friends!
Seriously, though I have none.
When I gave up smoking, I had to also give up drinking and coffee as they go hand in hand for me. I was an 80 (Rollins) a day smoker, so it wasn't so much a habit as an addiction, but I did it and 8 years on I'm glad.
But I no longer have friends at all, as I worked until I was told to go home (loved my work - problem solving on a help desk!) so my friends were at work, though I doubt any of them would have given me help, so they were more acquaintances than friends.
So, how does a married, late 30's male make friends to socialise with, that does not involve pubs, bars, sports or coffee? and adult friend finder and the like of doesn't count!
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Post by Wavey75 on Oct 21, 2014 18:35:10 GMT
Forgot to say,I already think this guys only returning my calls as he needs me, but I need him too for now! I just wanted to understand why he pulls this crap - I'm pro confrontation any day of the wek and twice on Sunday ! ?
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Post by supine on Oct 22, 2014 10:02:09 GMT
Wavey75, I started out problem solving on helpdesks too, so I know where you are coming from. I also have no real friends (apart from my wife). Since being on this board, I have come to realise that us ADHD'ers truly are different from the herd at a fundamental level, not just because we face different challenges every day. I can guarantee that every one of us with ADHD on this board will accept that we are sometimes arseholes, but we are *aware* of it and try to compensate. We tend not be arrogant, we try and listen (with varying degrees of success) and generally try our best to help other people out. We are life's problem solvers, because we think differently. This gives us a unique perspective. The problem arises because we are a minority in a world where ignorance is rife. NT's will always be trying to put us down and belittle us, and that often skews how we think about ourselves as we grow. Since being on meds for the last year, so much has become clearer - not just about myself and ADHD, but about NT's. We feel inferior to them because that's how they like it. We represent a challenge to them that they cannot face. We represent truth. The cynical part of me thinks that we are generally honest people because it requires a good memory to lie but I think that is only part of it. We want to be accepted, but we will never be accepted by NT's because they are incapable of empathizing with our condition because it is too ephemeral. It is because of this that I have decided to set up a support group for adult adhd suffers. I had a conversation with petra recently about ADHD and selfishness, and this is one of those occasions. For me, selfishness is double-sided. For example, setting up a support group sounds like I want to do it to help people like us (which is true) - but I also want to actually meet the kind of people that I see on this board every day - because I think I am only ever going to make friends with other ADHD sufferers. Does that make sense?
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Post by Deleted on Oct 22, 2014 10:29:15 GMT
Totally makes sense supine. And if we have lied in the past - especially as children (see Barkley), that is compensated for by being really honest with our emotions and intentions.
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Post by supine on Oct 22, 2014 10:36:50 GMT
Good point. To take things a step further, if you really want to understand why NT's are the way they are, then all you have to do is see the fnords. www.americandailyherald.com/pundits/glenn-horowitz/item/have-you-seen-the-fnords-yet-3ADHD types are actually mentioned in this article, see if you can spot it We don't fit in because we have a natural obstacle for brainwashing to overcome. We aren't immune, but we have a natural resistance so to speak. This is why I don't despise NT's, I pity them. I only get annoyed when they have power over me in some way and use it to keep me down.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 22, 2014 11:16:23 GMT
Thanks, I'll have a good read of that later. Put it on my board to remind me
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Post by Wavey75 on Oct 22, 2014 14:54:49 GMT
Wavey75, I started out problem solving on helpdesks too, so I know where you are coming from. I also have no real friends (apart from my wife).
Since being on this board, I have come to realise that us ADHD'ers truly are different from the herd at a fundamental level, not just because we face different challenges every day.
I can guarantee that every one of us with ADHD on this board will accept that we are sometimes arseholes, but we are *aware* of it and try to compensate. We tend not be arrogant, we try and listen (with varying degrees of success) and generally try our best to help other people out.
[...]
It is because of this that I have decided to set up a support group for adult adhd suffers. I had a conversation with petra recently about ADHD and selfishness, and this is one of those occasions. For me, selfishness is double-sided.
For example, setting up a support group sounds like I want to do it to help people like us (which is true) - but I also want to actually meet the kind of people that I see on this board every day - because I think I am only ever going to make friends with other ADHD sufferers.
Does that make sense?------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Supine, it's like your reading my mind !!! - I tried to setup a support group in my area (Devon) but I only got 2 replies of interest that span the entire county, and I ran into problems with a venue, nothing to do with finding one, more to do with deciding on one - (still pending by the way.) I stumbled into an ADHD diagnosis, it never occured to me at any point in my past that I wasn't an NT, and that I may have ADHD. I was convinced for years, that my problems were Dyslexia and being lazy minded - hated reading at school. Now I spend my days reading forum posts, news articles of interest (IFL.com) and educational materials, so I'm just a late bloomer lol. I'd love to socialise again. I'd need to learn how to, as when I gave up smoking I also gave up socialising too somehow. It's been 8 years since then and the idea of meeting a regular group of people is a little scary, but less so when I know I'm going to meet other ADDers. I need to do this more often - I'm willing to travel for it too, as long as it's close to a train station - hate driving. My closest ADHD support is Bristol, and in order to attend, I have to get a hotel as the last train home leaves 30 minutes after the meeting ends and I'm more than that away from the train station in Bristol. I couldn't drive 2 hours there and 2 hours back again in one evening, I'd crash the car ;-)
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Post by Deleted on Oct 22, 2014 15:12:29 GMT
Can you re-jig that response please Wavey75? Having problems reading it
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Post by Wavey75 on Oct 22, 2014 16:40:16 GMT
Better?
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Post by Deleted on Oct 22, 2014 17:14:16 GMT
Yes thanks
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Post by Wavey75 on Oct 23, 2014 13:19:01 GMT
Cool?
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