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Post by contrarymary on Nov 12, 2014 20:35:20 GMT
when you:
are overtired don't have any structure/deadlines and take out the structure that's been keeping you grounded.. wander from one thing to another with no sense of what's important or urgent make mistakes at the beginning of the day (through being overtired) so stop trusting yourself and....just stop. for the whole day. seem actively avoid the things which you know will help get hooked into things that really don't help waste the day - your time, your energy feel overwhelmed so don't start anything put pressure on the rest of the week because of losing a(nother) day now the rest of the week is Really Overwhelming get more wound up, more anxious, less able to tolerate anything - door bell, phone, aeroplanes overhead... can't wait for the day to be over so you can try and start again on a day you haven't "spoiled" yet feel a failure
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Post by Deleted on Nov 13, 2014 11:20:38 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Nov 13, 2014 13:29:08 GMT
Yes. All of this, and often!
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Post by shapes on Nov 13, 2014 14:21:44 GMT
Yes absolutely.
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Post by grumpy on Nov 13, 2014 17:49:13 GMT
Made me smile , i am run down so hard with flu last week but today 3 hour sleep each night for last week has got me and i feel like im going backwards just want the cough to go so i can try and get back to normal.
My thought are all over the place as im only doing half dose meds to keep ticking over as full dose when crash in this state flu comes back 100% worst.
But im feeling you 100% ☺
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Post by blaze on Nov 14, 2014 9:12:09 GMT
Sorry your having a crappy time
Im slighlty the other way round, I find I need the odd day to recharge and feel grounded where I let go of patterns and doing the right things etc, I find my kids need this too once a wk or so and we are all more reconnected/recharged/grounded and less foggy headed for me too. The odd day with too much choc and igniring the clock seems to make the rest of the time doing it all right way more effective, sort of balances us if that makes sence. I giess it helps alot these days that im aware a down day is cneeded and plan accordingly.
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Post by JJ on Nov 14, 2014 10:05:07 GMT
contrarymary - yep blaze - yep Seems to me to illustrate that the only difference is how you personally view it on that day.... This has resonated with some stuff we were talking about in CBT the other day....
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Post by contrarymary on Nov 14, 2014 18:40:32 GMT
once a week i take a day out to reset myself, i sleep later if i need to, do fun/relaxing/creative things, don't do chores, generally choose to have it free of all human beings and Just For Me. tho i do spend time doing meditation and yoga, because that really helps to ground me in myself. it works brilliantly.
unf when i go off track on a different day where i had expected to get stuff done, it feels very different. it's generally sparked through tiredness, having overdone stuff, not feeling able to plan ahead etc. and doesn't have the "holiday" feel of my saturdays, but is depressing.
i think a helpful way of looking at it might be less judgementally, because clearly at least some of the negativity is in the perception, .
if i could change it, control it, i would. but it's the sense of not having a sense of it, being lost, out of control, caught up in the moment and not being able to influence - or indeed know - what is happening, that makes it so hard.
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Post by petra on Nov 14, 2014 19:53:58 GMT
I've had one of those unplanned days off today. I totally agree it does NOT feel like a planned positive recharging day off. It's felt and remained out of my control since the moment I woke up..like I've been stuck in a rut and if you press the accelerator all that happens is your wheels spin faster but you don't actually move even an inch. And all I've felt really able to think about is how weird and different to most other people I am and that I really might as well become a total recluse. And I'm really not in the mood for even attempting to put a positive spin on everything. I can be super positive....but not today. It's probably a particularly bad adhd day which is par for the course, but that coupled with a lower mood, and a few too many things having gone wrong the last few weeks despite what in my opinion have been valiant efforts....the bar is too high.
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Post by contrarymary on Nov 14, 2014 20:36:43 GMT
petra thank you for so clearly articulating exactly what i am feeling today. i am so tired and overwhelmed i have struggled to get out of bed this week. i made myself do stuff for two days when i had someone coming over but have spent two days largely in bed and because of this inability to get going i found out this afternoon that i have lost an opportunity which i was really excited by and had previously worked hard for none of it's been a planned "hey i'm so tired i'll take a day off to rest and recover" - that would have been a positive day. it was more i couldn't actually make myself do anything, slipped backwards into a really poor adhd day - distraction and procrastination and " in a bit i must..." but never actually doing anything. i managed to make msyelf race the timer in the early evening to do a few basic chores and make food, but otherwise didn't even use the bathroom or eat or drink or anything at all. and when people rang i found myself avoiding them, or resenting them, or covering up how things really are. and overwhelmed with shame and self-judgement, sometimes manifested as resentment or anger at people i love, or as blaming the world. i had forgotten how horrible this is, and how many years have slipped by while i tried to pretend to be normal, managed for a short time then spent 90% of my time recovering. UGH!
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Post by JJ on Nov 15, 2014 0:51:13 GMT
That's the nail on the head contrarymaryTrouble is that it's such a continual effort to function, there will inevitably be those days. And it's hard to put a positive spin on things when those days remind you that you can feign control for a while, but ultimately it has you and you don't have it. And for me, in some ways functioning better makes the non functioning times more difficult to deal with emotionally. I was starting to make progress in CBT when my allotted sessions expired. And all the good stuff went out the window at the speed of light and I've actually been worse than I was before I started - in many ways worse than I used to be unmedicated. I'm trying to pull myself back up, but it's been really hard. I wonder how NTs feel when they have a bad day?
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Post by blaze on Nov 15, 2014 7:51:48 GMT
maybe more awareness of when a crash is going to hit so you can atleast expect things to be out of control? I know pmt means I will function less, I know cming back from holiday does it too, and when everything has gone super well for a bit im allways likely to need sm down time. I have found excersise limits the frequency of crashing down though. quote author=" contrarymary" source="/post/84934/thread" timestamp="1415990432"]once a week i take a day out to reset myself, i sleep later if i need to, do fun/relaxing/creative things, don't do chores, generally choose to have it free of all human beings and Just For Me. tho i do spend time doing meditation and yoga, because that really helps to ground me in myself. it works brilliantly. unf when i go off track on a different day where i had expected to get stuff done, it feels very different. it's generally sparked through tiredness, having overdone stuff, not feeling able to plan ahead etc. and doesn't have the "holiday" feel of my saturdays, but is depressing. i think a helpful way of looking at it might be less judgementally, because clearly at least some of the negativity is in the perception, . if i could change it, control it, i would. but it's the sense of not having a sense of it, being lost, out of control, caught up in the moment and not being able to influence - or indeed know - what is happening, that makes it so hard. [/quote]
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Post by blaze on Nov 15, 2014 7:55:33 GMT
nts feel the same, tgey maybe dont get stuck with needing to crash out quite as much though. Maybe more self compassion for when the fall apart happens? Jst because we can manage better with the right meds/stratagies etc doesnt mean we wont fall jst as low when it hits. uote author=" JJ" source="/post/84938/thread" timestamp="1416012673"]That's the nail on the head contrarymaryTrouble is that it's such a continual effort to function, there will inevitably be those days. And it's hard to put a positive spin on things when those days remind you that you can feign control for a while, but ultimately it has you and you don't have it. And for me, in some ways functioning better makes the non functioning times more difficult to deal with emotionally. I was starting to make progress in CBT when my allotted sessions expired. And all the good stuff went out the window at the speed of light and I've actually been worse than I was before I started - in many ways worse than I used to be unmedicated. I'm trying to pull myself back up, but it's been really hard. I wonder how NTs feel when they have a bad day? [/quote]
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Post by petra on Nov 15, 2014 21:16:36 GMT
To me, the point is, NT's are not completely disabled and thrown into a tailspin because of it....their whole inner and outer world isn't thrown into disarray. And their fundamental functioning abilities aren't affected - at least not deeply. Currently, I am unable to say when my sleeping patterns may return to my newly found 'reasonably acceptable' ones which I have worked so hard for, and I really don't know when I will be in a position to happily meet up with a friend again/ make any kind of arrangement / commitment. These 2 examples alone draw a line of separation between me and others in my life, which in itself courses feelings of pain in me. Even when I give my very best, it does not usually meet with the expectations and needs of others - I know it's not 'their' fault for not getting it or understanding...it's jut part and parcel of the burden of having hidden disabilities.
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Post by contrarymary on Nov 15, 2014 23:14:58 GMT
I really hope that NTs don't feel the same, because they don't seem to understand what I feel like! It's really hard to explain how on earth I can get like this when I'm not depressed, and I find myself trying to get across that it's the Being Like This that makes me depressed. Living in the Now, Now is all there is. And if this is how I'm feeling Now, then this is how I always feel, and therefore it's always depressing and hopeless... I wonder if anyone else finds it possible to see these days/slips coming. I don't, but then I have always been future-blind and my working memory doesn't work. Not to mention Living firmly in The Now. And unmedicated, so I don't know if that makes a difference to planning/being aware - do meds help with future stuff? Today I had a half-and-half day - pretty much as previously this morning, but a strangely productive and hopeful afternoon.... perhaps things might move forwards. In any case I have got to bed at a relatively reasonable time, later than works for me but so much better than the last few weeks... I can't tell you how grateful I am for the responses - really, really helpful to know that it's not Just Me
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Post by contrarymary on Nov 15, 2014 23:15:37 GMT
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Post by petra on Nov 16, 2014 0:50:54 GMT
Thanks cm xxx and likewise there's comfort in knowing it's not 'just me'...probably the best tonic for when you're feeling like that.
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Post by blaze on Nov 16, 2014 6:40:44 GMT
Id disagree, iv definately witnessed plenty of nt friends thrown hugely and if anything id say they beat themselves up harder because they have no understanding of why it happens and perhaps because they manage better often without the same level of struggle they expect to achieve that allways. Perhaps its easier/quicker for them to get back their equilibribum thought. That said my nt.oh has no control over his mucked up.sleep patterns and gets v frustrated pvrr them. To me, the point is, NT's are not completely disabled and thrown into a tailspin because of it....their whole inner and outer world isn't thrown into disarray. And their fundamental functioning abilities aren't affected - at least not deeply. Currently, I am unable to say when my sleeping patterns may return to my newly found 'reasonably acceptable' ones which I have worked so hard for, and I really don't know when I will be in a position to happily meet up with a friend again/ make any kind of arrangement / commitment. These 2 examples alone draw a line of separation between me and others in my life, which in itself courses feelings of pain in me. Even when I give my very best, it does not usually meet with the expectations and needs of others - I know it's not 'their' fault for not getting it or understanding...it's jut part and parcel of the burden of having hidden disabilities.
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Post by blaze on Nov 16, 2014 6:57:13 GMT
maybe thats more to do with the nts you know, I know plenty who understand these days, def plenty who didnt previously, but iv found it easier to find understanding/accepting nts as iv got older. Equaly iv found iv developed more awareness of when these will hit, like I said before sm of its jst awareness of paterns like the effect of hormone levels, or how I.function (or dont) when things change so anything.like return from holidaus, a friend leaving, oh.going back to work etc. I think, slowly, iv developed sm small awareness of these cming from being mote connected to my.body, I think strattera makes that more possible for me as I feel less foggyheaded on this, less disconnected. I dont have a significant concept of future, but I know when I strat to feel out of sorts/out of syn that smthing isnt quite right and the cycles about to hit so I know to be kind to myself, ask oh for more help, let go of expectations and coast for a bit til equilibrium settles back whenever it does. I know from past experience that crashing and going with the crash for a bit followed by the first day back in a forced routine (like nursery drop off followed by familarity of physio or similar) reconnects things, like a thermastat reset smwhat. This is after 20 yrs on and off meds though, plus signficant reconnecting life experiences like long term therapy (which was for ptsd but still) and I think nursing my twins sort of resert my body connection also, liks how I saw them go through this over load continualy and my milk had to adjust to ground them so its given me back sm kind of awareness of how my own nervous syatem trips out. uote author=" contrarymary" surce="/post/84946/thread" timestamp="1416093298"]I really hope that NTs don't feel the same, because they don't seem to understand what I feel like! It's really hard to explain how on earth I can get like this when I'm not depressed, and I find myself trying to get across that it's the Being Like This that makes me depressed. Living in the Now, Now is all there is. And if this is how I'm feeling Now, then this is how I always feel, and therefore it's always depressing and hopeless... I wonder if anyone else finds it possible to see these days/slips coming. I don't, but then I have always been future-blind and my working memory doesn't work. Not to mention Living firmly in The Now. And unmedicated, so I don't know if that makes a difference to planning/being aware - do meds help with future stuff? Today I had a half-and-half day - pretty much as previously this morning, but a strangely productive and hopeful afternoon.... perhaps things might move forwards. In any case I have got to bed at a relatively reasonable time, later than works for me but so much better than the last few weeks... I can't tell you how grateful I am for the responses - really, really helpful to know that it's not Just Me [/quote]
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Post by shapes on Nov 16, 2014 16:29:57 GMT
This is a big problem for me and I find it is not well understood by medical professionals at all. I am constantly being told that fatigue for instance, is the opposite end of a spectrum with ADHD, so I daren't talk about fatigue or poor sleeping patterns and I don't feel able to express unhappiness for fear of being labelled as "depressed".
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Post by contrarymary on Nov 16, 2014 17:54:42 GMT
last sunday i really overdid things and have been tired ever since. i have struggled to sit up, to get up, even to go to the bathroom. I struggled to communicate at all for the first 24 hours; much of the time i've been too tired to eat. It has thrown me off my previous improving patterns of sleep, meditation, yoga, exercise, healthy eating and better balanced activity. for a week I have been pretty much as set out in the OP.
I don't know any NTs who would regard that as their definition of Being Tired, or who would get like this because of one long day out. I am increasingly realising that much of my experience is utterly alien to the vast majority of NTs. And it's all too easy to use the same words and think we mean the same. We compare apples with potatoes and get hurt or impatient or feel misunderstood.
i don't know what it's like to be diagnosed as a child and grown up on and off medication. i was diagnosed at the beginning of this year. i am hopeful that gaining insight from this new knowledge, developing strategies and (i hope) medication will combine to at least reduce some symptoms. and i look more kindly - if rather sadly - on the me of the past years of struggle in study, work, parenting.
There's no point in disagreeing with each other's experience, it is what it is. We're massively diverse in many ways, have different co-morbs and lots of other stuff. The miracle is that we find so much in common and that we can often find relief, reassurance, resonance.
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Post by shapes on Nov 16, 2014 18:18:42 GMT
I do wonder what it is like for people who grow up with a diagnosis as a child. I wonder if that would have been a good thing or not. It's another sort of baggage to carry.
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Post by blaze on Nov 16, 2014 19:07:37 GMT
id actualy quite like to know what its like growing up with that too, my childhood diagnosis, I think, was a private one, as its not on my medical records but is on ky social service ones and I remember smtimes being on medication, smtimes not (but them thats true of a whole host of different.medications as I was drugged to facilitate the abuse, and my npd/mhbp mother had me on and off a varriety of other meds at different times. I dobt remember most of my childhood in any coherant fashion but I remember being v much wrote off by teachers because of adhd followed by being pressured heavily once my iq was tested and I joined joiniour mensa, followed by living with my father who didnt believed adhd was real or that I had any other problem than being female. My dx of disgraphia by ed pscyh at uni, followed by adhd dx was v helpful, but too late in my degree to be helpful there. It did help me chpose.jobs that worked to my stregths and didnt play on my weaknesses though which was greatly helpful I think. Iv met a few nts who work themselves to breaking point and end up in this state, with huge self beating up also, but more than that iv met plenty who fall apart or get over loaded for other reasons, and it doesnt seem any different from my experience of crashing other than theu seem to beable to pull themselves out of it. Im not disagreeing woith others experience jst adding a different perspectove, iv met many great nts. Too often on here I see nds experience described as if we are one, and yet I think theres a greater range of experience between people with nd than there is between nds and nts, in my experience. Iv came across nds who are jst as lacking in understanding and tolerance of my experience as sm nts are, and iv met sm nts who are much more insightfil, accepting and understanding. Feel like iv been working my whole life on managing my cycles of crashes and highs of managing and slowly I have sm awareness of sm triggers and the awareness that self compassion helps, at one point it felt like utterly impossible to survive, now its more of a possibility that if I let go and go on insticnt when needed I cm out the other side more alive and connected. I was jst saying the same overload happens (especialy tiredness as I have hypermobile joint syndrom, chronic pain and chronic fatigue syndrom also) yet its smthing that seems to reconnect my nervous system these days. Sorry its jst smthing negative to sm, maybe theres hope that might change in futire. Iv also allways found hcp brilliantly understanding of this, I have allways found nhs brilliant when it cms to adhd, horrificly egligent and impcopetant when it comes to other yhings, but local pyschs in aberdeen (no adhd service) and wakefield have all been great at understanding the exhaustion and overload, so again maybe this depends on where you are in the country. My pain clinic concultant and ot also were aware adhd has a strong link to fatigue, and rhmrtologist also. Theres research smwhere about the link between adhd and cfs so I guess if sm know about this hopefuly it will get to other adhd services in time. Oesteos and accupunturists iv been to also wrre aware of these links so I dont think its unknown, again thats in scotland and england, so maybe its worth either seaking out others or passing along sm of the literature research because maybe theyd be mord open to understanding that imagined. uote author=" shapes" source="/post/84961/thread" timestamp="1416161922"]I do wonder what it is like for people who grow up with a diagnosis as a child. I wonder if that would have been a good thing or not. It's another sort of baggage to carry.[/quote]
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Post by Deleted on Nov 17, 2014 11:50:50 GMT
I do wonder what it is like for people who grow up with a diagnosis as a child. I wonder if that would have been a good thing or not. It's another sort of baggage to carry. On balance and looking back, I wish I'd known. Knowing something was wrong but not being able to put a finger on it has been both debilitating and destructive for me. Okay, so kids today have a label to contend with, but at least they and their carers have something tangible to work with.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 17, 2014 12:48:53 GMT
The human brain isn't very elastic - to some extent you build it yourself when growing up and although it can be rebuilt/more things learned (it's approx 13 times more difficult to unlearn something than learn it) what gets put in place as you grow up sticks.
Get the kids. Treat them and teach them as much as possible because you#'ll get a more capable (happier) adult.
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Post by petra on Nov 17, 2014 14:19:57 GMT
Meds have and are making a huge difference to me - they are empowering - so it's a shock to revisit the place of feeling so helpless to affect change. But as I've spent much of my life in that place I guess I shouldn't be surprised that all those old feelings and pathways are still there. I think I've been getting a bit ahead of myself and need to adjust my expectations accordingly - this has been a reality check I think.
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Post by shapes on Nov 17, 2014 22:45:44 GMT
I'm in a similar position. I think I was perhaps a bit over optimistic that everything was sorted, but it's nice to realise this is normal.
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Post by contrarymary on Nov 17, 2014 23:58:38 GMT
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Post by shapes on Nov 18, 2014 16:22:14 GMT
It's ok reading articles and understanding things but it doesn't offer any solutions. If anything it makes me feel worse.
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Post by supine on Nov 18, 2014 17:37:44 GMT
It's ok reading articles and understanding things but it doesn't offer any solutions. If anything it makes me feel worse. Although new understanding can trigger our creative processes which can allow us to see 'another path to victory' as it were - so not a wasted effort by any means
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