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Post by carly31 on Dec 2, 2014 23:16:02 GMT
I'm not sure if this has been discussed before, I searched the general page (fleetingly) so excuse me if I'm covering old ground. I have recently come to the realisation that I have ADHD, asperger's and homosexuality!!! I've been tearing strips out of my character, putting myself down, seeking validation from other people- you know how the story goes.... I spoke to my mum who seemed quite content with the fact that our whole family is a bit 'odd' (Her proud words). She also seemed really happy to have someone to talk to enthusiastically about the order she dries herself after being in the bath, to which I, obviously, was more than happy to reciprocate! I had been mulling over adhd and asperger's in a bad way, it never dawned on me that I should be proud of it. My Sangha (spiritual community) have been worrying that I've been focusing on there being something wrong with me. They say there is nothing 'wrong' with me as a person and that the pain I'm feeling now is because I'm seeing things I don't like. My own prejudices towards difference, if you like. I agree. I've started identifying with neurodiversity. Now this really has shifted something in me. There is an infinity movement where they believe neurodiversity shouldn't be seen as pathological. Like homosexuality shouldn't be seen as a mental illness. We're all just variations of the human race. They explain it better on wiki! en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neurodiversity. Just felt like I needed to share that. There isn't anything wrong with us. I'm not denying that life is more difficult. It is. Painfully. But change can happen. Look at race, gender and disability politics. It's not perfect, but there has been and still is movement toward equality. I'm not sure how everyone else feels about this. I can only speak for myself. But FUCK social norms. I'm making my own, come join me
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Post by carly31 on Dec 2, 2014 23:29:31 GMT
Well, I realised a long time ago that I have homosexuality. So that isn't a recent revelation...
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Post by Deleted on Dec 3, 2014 0:32:22 GMT
I am not pained with the label of ADHD.
I am pained by lack of organisation, mood swings and some behaviours (eg impulsivity).
That definition of neurodiversity says that society should adjust to me.
I don't see why it should - I will accommodate the needs of others as long as they don't make my life difficult and ask for the same in return (fair is, after all, fair) but the whole world does not revolve around me.
I don't feel that society is punishing me for being in a minority, though the minority thing means that I'm not getting as much NHS financing as I'd like. New things are like that and things will change - with good advocacy they'll change quicker.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 3, 2014 8:57:53 GMT
I tend to agree with Dave. In principle the concept of neurodiversity is fine; for me there is no stigma associated with my diagnosis of ADHD but it is a useful construct that enables me to get treatment and support for the aspects of my condition that cause me problems.
You mention your "sangha" so I'm assuming you are approaching this from a Buddhist perspective. I'm not a Buddhist but I practice mindfulness meditation and - interesting factoid - it was actually on a meditation mat in a local Buddhist Centre that I diagnosed my own ADHD and decided that I was going to seek medical help for it. It was through that process of focusing on the breath, that act of bringing myself back to the present moment over and over and over and over..... and through talking frankly with others about their experiences, that I began to realise that there seemed to be a qualitative and quantitative difference in my own experience of attention and concentration; a difference that explained so much that I hadn't before been able to see and understand.
In my meditation group we had a lot of healthy (and at times heated) discussion about the role of medication in mental illness. From my perspective, having ADHD doesn't mean that there is anything "wrong" with me as a person, in the same way that having a sight impairment or a chest infection would make me fundamentally "wrong" on the inside. But it is a condition that has caused significant impairment to my ability to work and function socially and I'm happy to seek treatment for it in the same way that I wouldn't hesitate to wear glasses or to take antibiotics to sort out a physical condition.
The way I see it, medicine is not an exact science and we have to do the best we can with what we know now, when making treatment decisions for ourselves. Some people medicate, some don't and that's OK. Some people are happy just with the understanding that diagnosis brings, others want to take further action. For me, both meditation and methylphenidate are side by side on my plan for recovery from a lifetime of undiagnosed ADHD and a 5-year long struggle with the knock-on effects of depression and anxiety, and I see no tension there.
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Post by carly31 on Dec 3, 2014 15:59:55 GMT
I'm really Interested to know why you are pained by those symptoms? Is it because of society's intolerance of difference? Would it help if people were better educated and had more understanding of your symptoms? Neurodiversity isn't about society changing to suit us. It's about not limiting the confines of normality. It's about increasing tolerance and understanding. Accepting that the way the majority do things isn't the only way and just because we don't fit the norm, we are labelled faulty. I'm unsure if you found this post insulting or not. It was meant positively
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Post by shiveringsky on Dec 3, 2014 17:03:48 GMT
I think I understand (though in no way am I speaking for) Dave's statement there. I am pained by similar. Not because of what anyone else thinks of me but by the sheer inconvenience that is spending 25 minutes looking for something I had one minute and didnt the next. Because searching for things I need is boring and a pain in the arse.
I am very lucky to have a relatively understanding workplace and colleagues but that doesnt make it any less personally irritating and depressing when I cant get out of this job into something I like because I cant focus on doing what I need to do. I cant finish art, I cant finish music or books. I am very creative but a master of nothing. (Can't is loosely used. This is to date. I live in hope the future will be better.)
But all this said, I dont find my ADHD a curse. It allows me to think in tangents and create solutions other people would be be unlikely to think of. It's my sense of humour and it is part of me. So it's not about the world having an issue with it - though that would certainly have made my life easier. It's just the symptoms themself, you know? Accepting that accidents happen when your dog has been knocked over doesnt take the sting away. A passers by words of comfort might help ease the loneliness that comes with pain, but it wouldnt bring the dog back to life.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 3, 2014 17:38:48 GMT
I'm really Interested to know why you are pained by those symptoms? Is it because of society's intolerance of difference? Would it help if people were better educated and had more understanding of your symptoms? Neurodiversity isn't about society changing to suit us. It's about not limiting the confines of normality. It's about increasing tolerance and understanding. Accepting that the way the majority do things isn't the only way and just because we don't fit the norm, we are labelled faulty. I'm unsure if you found this post insulting or not. It was meant positively I'm not insulted in the slightest - we're just discussing something you raised like adults I don't feel stigma - I worry that NT people can have incorrect opinions, that makes them have negative views, which impact my/our life. It doesn't worry me that my symptoms are not understood, I don't understand patience, dimwittedness, how to address withdrawn people with autism and many other things. As long as there is no maliciousness I'm happy. I understand a small palette of things and hope good attitude will get me through everything else and that's as much as I can expect from anyone. It's not ADHD per se that bothers me - it's the bloody symptoms. I want to operate at my highest potential. The symptoms get in the way and that's why I chase treatment. I class myself as ND but not with the definition that was linked to. I have a medical condition. I'm also shortsighted and wear glasses - I see ( no pun intended ) ADHD and short sightedness in the same category ie things that I have that I get treatment for. If I didn't wear glasses I wouldn't be allowed to drive, and I feel that my contract with society is fair on that front. I find ADHD self limiting (eg losing my keys) so, in some ways, my ADHD is less severe than my lack of visual acuity.
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Post by carly31 on Dec 3, 2014 23:13:03 GMT
Okay, I'm glad I didn't make a faux pas Dave!!
This is really interesting because I see ADHD as a context disorder. Society is about as unreal and unatural as we can possibly get from our human routes. So if society wasn't the way it was, we wouldn't have a condition. We'd just do things we were good at and life wouldn't be so difficult. I believe that disability is a mismatch between a person with an impairment and the environment. If society was better organised and more understanding, it would harness the skills and attributes of each and every person. Which may sound idealistic, but really is basic group work.
People who use wheelchairs can now access a lot more things than they used to because we have recognised that it is wrong to exclude somebody because of something that is out of their control. Is it unreasonable of me to tell my employer that I will work the way that works for me? If I cannot do something, I need help. I'm pleased to say that I have that employer. I refuse to take medication because I feel that ADHD and aspergers is just the way I am. Like being gay. I don't see it as an impairment or disability. It only becomes that when somebody else's prejudices get in the way. Why should I take medication to be like everybody else? I can do many things that others don't want to do. Usually boring repetitive things which people are happy to swap when I ask. I'm not saying that society should change to suit me. I'm saying that I have a use and lets work together to find the balance.
I'm starting to think that I may be more on the aspie side if I'm totally honest. I have difficulties with ADHD like symptoms but generally once I have a routine I'm like clockwork and do not cope with change well. I am hyper though, so never stop moving but usually doing the same thing, like an engine if you like!
I'm currently doing a pretty simple job. I have a vocational degree so could be earning a lot more than what I am at the moment. I'm beginning to realise that my well-being is more important than anything in the world. I feel like I'm letting go of my potential because I want my suffering to end. I'm done with looking at my inabilities!
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Post by Deleted on Dec 4, 2014 10:24:51 GMT
Okay, I'm glad I didn't make a faux pas Dave!! This is really interesting because I see ADHD as a context disorder. Society is about as unreal and unatural as we can possibly get from our human routes. So if society wasn't the way it was, we wouldn't have a condition. We'd just do things we were good at and life wouldn't be so difficult. I believe that disability is a mismatch between a person with an impairment and the environment. If society was better organised and more understanding, it would harness the skills and attributes of each and every person. Which may sound idealistic, but really is basic group work. People who use wheelchairs can now access a lot more things than they used to because we have recognised that it is wrong to exclude somebody because of something that is out of their control. Is it unreasonable of me to tell my employer that I will work the way that works for me? If I cannot do something, I need help. I'm pleased to say that I have that employer. I refuse to take medication because I feel that ADHD and aspergers is just the way I am. Like being gay. I don't see it as an impairment or disability. It only becomes that when somebody else's prejudices get in the way. Why should I take medication to be like everybody else? I can do many things that others don't want to do. Usually boring repetitive things which people are happy to swap when I ask. I'm not saying that society should change to suit me. I'm saying that I have a use and lets work together to find the balance. I'm starting to think that I may be more on the aspie side if I'm totally honest. I have difficulties with ADHD like symptoms but generally once I have a routine I'm like clockwork and do not cope with change well. I am hyper though, so never stop moving but usually doing the same thing, like an engine if you like! I'm currently doing a pretty simple job. I have a vocational degree so could be earning a lot more than what I am at the moment. I'm beginning to realise that my well-being is more important than anything in the world. I feel like I'm letting go of my potential because I want my suffering to end. I'm done with looking at my inabilities! I'm pleased you raised the ND hypothesis - it has an internal logic and you presented your view with some elegance. You're also applying it to your life and taking value from it (good). Sharing things of value to us is what the forum is about. I disagree with the conclusions but that's like arguing over whether tea or coffee is the superior drink - in doing so you made me, and hopefully everyone who read the material, think about the issue and, hopefully, reassess why they do/think what they do. I've learned useful stuff so while I'm not converted to the viewpoint I have taken value from having seen it and I'm very happy this idea got an airing here. More of this standard of thinking please
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Post by carly31 on Dec 4, 2014 11:07:53 GMT
Same here Dave. It's interesting to see other people's viewpoints as I tend to think everybody see's the same as me! Which. they don't apparently, but that's something that'll always be a mystery to me! I guess the point is, there's no right way to feel. The possibilities are endless, the conclusions are endless because the variation in humans are endless! To infinity, and beyond! Over and out.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 4, 2014 19:40:45 GMT
I just wanted to say carly31 that I have really enjoyed this thread so far and have been mulling over what has been said all day! It is the sort of debate where I can see some merit in all sides of the argument, even though I am currently in the "medication is for me" camp..
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Post by carly31 on Dec 4, 2014 21:56:39 GMT
Hi @pelargonium, Thank you for your kind words. For the record, I'm not against medication, and I never say never. It's always an option for me and it is the metaphorical wheelchair in this situation. I'm just not ready to take it yet. Maybe I'll never be ready. Who knows...
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