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Post by Wavey75 on Jun 8, 2015 12:39:11 GMT
When I try to talk to members of my family I am constantly accused of sound like I'm lecturing, Condescending or Patronising.
I have in the past told them to politely point this out or pose this query to me, so that I can assure them that I am actually doing this, that or the other.
So if I was patronising and I was asked, I would say yes, I am. or if asked am I condescending, I would perhaps say, no I'm not I’m having a conversation here, etc, etc.
I have little or no idea how to sound like any of these, but I know I can. particularly if I’m getting annoyed or frustrated or angry with the situation, depending on who it is and the circumstances.
Surely for my family to ask me what my intention are and for me to clarify them is enough? then I may continue to speak freely knowing that we have just cleared up that I am not sounding like ‘X’ but sounding like ‘Y’.
I am told the differences in the way I speak are a matter of tone, mannerisms and ‘other” but i really on’t see much of a difference.
I know that when I am frustrated my speech gets faster, which is almost hypocritical as I struggle when someone else is speaking fast.
I should point out that I love a great debate, I would spend evenings at a friends house sitting in the back garden discussing world issues, politics, great dilemmas, etc and we’d come at it from various sides and really have a good debate around various issues, etc.
I am also the type of person who has no control over the volume I speak at, or any awareness of it. I know I have inherited my Dad’s booming voice, where the room shakes if I actually shout, but I really do really shout. I am told I am shouting most of the time and I’m really not.
I am so fed up with this, is this a common ADHD flaw/characteristic and whats a good way to deal with it.
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Post by blaze on Jun 8, 2015 13:00:13 GMT
If someone let's you know you sound patronising then its not acceptable to simply let them know you arnt being and continue on as before, that's just plain rude. Of someone communicates you are being patronising then you shd take responsibility for that and change how you come across. You can't expect others to accept you arnt being patronising when you come across patronising and make no effort to change that.
These problems can be an aspect of ADHD, but more often connected to other DDS. I appreciate it can be difficult to developed awareness of how you present. Perhaps look for therapy to help, or try reading non violent communication. It must be equapy tough for your family feeling hurt by this. Maybe joint relationship or family therapy might help?
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Post by Wavey75 on Jun 8, 2015 20:30:03 GMT
Hi Blaze,
I don't understand - if someone says I sound patronising or condesending, isn't it enough to confirm or correct their interpretation and continue?
I mean to say that if someone says "you sound ... etc." it's not an absolute, it's their own interpretation of how you sound. It doesn't mean I actually am; nor does it mean that it is my intention to sound this way.
If it is not my intention and I am told that I sound a particular way, then my response will confirm that they are mis-interpreting me as I have confirmed it is not my intention to do so.
I've explained to all my family and friends that I have no idea what they are talking about and I don't see or hear any differences at all.
I'm not being rude, I have no clue that is what I am doing / sound-like, etc. I don't know what I can do - how do I fixed something I cannot identify?
Also, I am confused by the rest of your post, so I'm reposting it with possible orrections so I can confirm what you meant to say:
These problems can be an aspect of ADHD, but more often connected to other DDS. I appreciate it can be difficult to developed develop an awareness of how you present yourself. Perhaps look for therapy to help, or try reading non violent communications. It must be equapy equally tough for your family feeling hurt by this. Maybe joint relationship or family therapy might help?
I'm also lost as to what DDS means? another acronym or another shorthand for Diagnosis?
I have no awareness as I siad previously, but it's an impossible feat to develop an awareness of something you can't find.
I'm dissapponted this isn't a common trait of ADHD, as I have no idea of how to work on it. Reading through some self help books on non-violent communication would only help someone with an awareness of it, however mind or subtle.
Therapy hasn't helped because apparently I am different aorund different people - again no clue this is happening and so I am very much stuck.
I regularly have the idea to record myself, but remembering to do something and seeing it though is a nightmare with ADHD, as I'm sure many will know and have experience with.
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Post by Bee on Jun 8, 2015 21:30:46 GMT
Wavey, I do feel similar to Blaze on this one, but I suspect everyone has been in this situation - ADHD or not. Sometimes people say things and it comes across a bit different to how it's meant.
I've apologised so many times because what I've said has come out as unintentionally snappy.
The problem is, whether you mean to be patronising or not, if people perceive it, they will react accordingly - even if you try to explain that you're not.
If someone appears to be talking down to me, it makes no odds whether they say 'I'm not talking down to you'. I will still feel insulted by the tone or words used, and will probably be fairly unpleasant back.
If it's something that you're unaware of, it's difficult. But your family obviously feel there is an issue.
Perhaps the next time it's mentioned you could just stop for a second and try to consider a different way of speaking?
Xx Bee xX
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Post by JJ on Jun 8, 2015 22:41:36 GMT
I read your post In the complete opposite way Wavey75I have a lot of sympathy for what you're saying. This sounds more towards the ASD line to me, tho that doesn't disclude ADHD as a factor at all. The way I see it is that other people perceive you in a way that you'd not intended and get upset. You're unable to detect the differences they detect, even when explained to you - and you can't modify your behaviour unless you can perceive the differences they're offended by. Your solution is for them to query something you've said before they take offence. You can then clarify. You can then continue with shared knowledge that you're not being an arse. You've adopted that solution because when they've tried to explain to you the differences you still don't understand or perceive them. Therefore you're still unable to modify your behaviour automatically. They're basically getting upset because your condition impairs your ability in this arena. I think they need to cut you some slack to be honest and accept that you don't always mean stuff the way your tone and volume suggests to them - you're not all operating from the same brain manual, you're different and you can't help that. If you're neurologically unable to appreciate the nuances they're detecting, it's as illogical to be cross about that as it would be to get cross with someone colour blind for not being able to distinguish between green and red. The above is my strongest point. However, from the point of view of what else can you do to help, if they say you're speaking too loudly, then you can drop your volume for example. But they have to appreciate that they need to be explicit and basic in their requests. That wouldn't hurt, but equally, they can't get hurt that you have a high volume when you're not aware and, as long as you drop it when they say, you're not being the baddy. If NTs and NDs are to live harmoniously then it's give and take on both sides. But, the over-riding point is that you fundamentally don't get what they're saying - so all you can do is respect their view and modify when told - what they can do is accept the differences and work with them instead of fruitlessly railing against them. Give and take, but within a framework of tolerance and the benefit of the doubt.
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Post by blaze on Jun 9, 2015 7:34:53 GMT
Dds- developmental disorders
If I tell someone to f off, they tell me its offensive, I say I didn't mean to be offensive I WD be totaly out of line to xoect them to put up with being told to f off. If someone communicates you are being offensive you need to take that on board, while we can't control everyone's interpretation of us we shd atleast take on board those closest to us. I disagree that not having awareness means you can't develop it, I had no focus, no concentration, no motivation at various points in my life- I have somewhat learned these things.
There's a whole variety of various types of therapy, maybe try another one? Or look for smthing like awareness coaching. Lots of other things can help with awareness also like martial arts yoga drama classes, voice training etc. Non violent communication isn't a self help book- its a way of structuring language that helps how others hear you, and helps resolve conflicts. I'm totally with your family on this one, if my oh didn't take on board my feelings the way you are disregarding your family's then I'd be hurt and angry. Being aware of how he cones across isn't his strong point either, but he is considerate if I point these things out and has taken responsibility for how he cones across (which was never patronising more blunt) and its had a hugely positive effect on work & social life also.
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Post by tati on Jun 9, 2015 9:34:18 GMT
It can be quite subtle here... Wavey75, what do you mean with patronising/condescending/lecturing? blaze has interpreted it as you "offending people" or being rude... I have intended it more literally, as your family is "pointing on the tone of the voice" and you can't see how is the tone wrong and how (in case) to correct it. Could be my impression, but what you say seems to fit inside the Asperger's symptoms (that I was accidentally researching about just now). (by the way, ASD = authistic spectrum distorder, Asperger is inside it)
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Post by tati on Jun 9, 2015 9:42:26 GMT
I think the post about color-blindness reaches the spot. The problem here is, how to find a way to minimize the effects that has on your social life. I think there is nobody to blame here... just a need for some kind of help. Family therapy maybe?
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Post by blaze on Jun 9, 2015 15:38:40 GMT
You are correct that it depends on how its interpreted, but its rare (imo) for people to use the terms patronising without feeling offended, esoecialy if explain theres no intension to be patronising hasnt smoothed it over. I wd imagine that because family members bring it up and arent placated by explaination of no intent that they are v hurt by this behaviour. I think when its family members its only reasonable try and make the effort to adapt how we come accross to them as well as them making the efgort to understand why thats hard. I think bee said it best, if we feel talked down to them it makes little difference if the person claims they srnt talking down- infact normaly this coms accross dissmissive. Thats why non violent communication can be v useful, i find anyways. I can get loud and excitable and interupt lots, if people point this out i try to moderate it, but id exect them to understand i might struggle and appriciqte how hard it is for me. But like you say it does depend exactly what the issue is. te author=" tati" source="/post/89982/thread" timestamp="1433842458"]It can be quite subtle here... Wavey75, what do you mean with patronising/condescending/lecturing? blaze has interpreted it as you "offending people" or being rude... I have intended it more literally, as your family is "pointing on the tone of the voice" and you can't see how is the tone wrong and how (in case) to correct it. Could be my impression, but what you say seems to fit inside the Asperger's symptoms (that I was accidentally researching about just now). (by the way, ASD = authistic spectrum distorder, Asperger is inside it) [/quote]
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Post by tati on Jun 9, 2015 17:57:28 GMT
But like you say it does depend exactly what the issue is. Yes, that's why I also think some family therapy would be useful here. It's very difficult for those who are directly involved to be aware of the real issue. There's a lot of emotionality that gets in the way... an external eye can be of great help. The more professional, the better.
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Post by Wavey75 on Jun 9, 2015 18:07:34 GMT
Hi Bee,
I'm the same, except I stopped apologising a long time ago, instead with new people I will explain that I suffer with ADHD and that means I will say the wrong thing the wrong way most of the time, so they know well in advance, rather than no explanation and I only speak to this person once and never see or hear from them again.
Hi JJ,
Thank yo so, so much for your post to this thread. It was like you read my unconscious or ‘yet-to-be-verbalised’ mind! :-) What you’ve said here are thoughts I have been having but I have not been able to form them into constructive sentences. The only change I would make is that when I am told I am being loud, ok I can reduce the volume, but when I’m told I am patronising, lecturing or condescending I have no clue what to do and when I ask for examples, details or just something to help me distinguish between how each of these things sound, I get shoulder shrugs or vague “you just do” type things which are no help at all, I need specifics. I’m really confused what the opposite way for this post is? what’s the opposite of reading this post? (or am I being daft? lol)
Hi Blaze,
Your white right. If you told someone to F off, they’d be insulted because you know what f off means. Now, suppose you were learning a new language and on holiday you try it out and instead of asking for the time you inadvertently told some local to go shag a donkey. This is where you are stood there totally confused as to why this person is angry and annoyed at you. If you managed to calm this local down long enough to find out what you’ve done, you’d be able to repair the damage once an explanation of your error has been explained and you would naturally apologise. Now what if this local never actually explained your error, the next person you ask for the time could get just as upset or worse ,you could repeat your request to the local again, only this time he or she is really mad at al and you have no idea why.
Hi Tati,
My query is bout my tone in any conversation with my family who will point out that I sound like I am lecturing, condescending or patronising, etc. This is technically offensive and upsetting ,but I have no idea I am even doing it. I went for an ASD assessment and I was told I was clear, no ASD at all as I demonstrated small things like good eye-contact, etc. A friend of our has a 12 year old boy with Aspergers and his eye contact’s fine, but if Aspergers is also on the spectrum then I was assessed for it too.
Blaze, Really not getting your last post, perhaps this is what you meant (corrections in blue):
You are correct that it depends on how it's interpreted, but it's rare (imo) for people to use the terms patronising without feeling offended, especially if you explain there's no intention to be patronising and it hasn't smoothed it over. I wd would imagine that because family members bring it up and aren't placated by the explaination of no intent that they are very hurt by this behaviour. I think when it's family members it's only reasonable to try and make the effort to adapt how we come accross to them as well as them making the effort to understand why that's hard.
If this is what you are saying then I would resond by saying that I am here ,asking for help as I am fed up with feeling like I should keep my mouth shut when I want to contribute to any conversation in my home, I'm fed up with wanting to say something but feeling like I can't because it might upset them or her, none of which I have any control over.
I'm here now asking for tips, pointers and help to try and eliminate this flawed characteristic, but without more information about it ther is simply nothing I can do about it. I don't like your phrase "why that's hard." it's not hard, it's impossible without a map. If I had this map, it would have been gone long ago.
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Post by blaze on Jun 9, 2015 18:20:05 GMT
Yep thats why it was one of the things i suggested uote author=" tati" source="/post/89988/thread" timestamp="1433872648"] But like you say it does depend exactly what the issue is. Yes, that's why I also think some family therapy would be useful here. It's very difficult for those who are directly involved to be aware of the real issue. There's a lot of emotionality that gets in the way... an external eye can be of great help. The more professional, the better. [/quote]
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Post by blaze on Jun 9, 2015 18:39:37 GMT
Hi Bee, I'm the same, except I stopped apologising a long time ago, instead with new people I will explain that I suffer with ADHD and that means I will say the wrong thing the wrong way most of the time, so they know well in advance, rather than no explanation and I only speak to this person once and never see or hear from them again. Hi JJ, Thank yo so, so much for your post to this thread. It was like you read my unconscious or ‘yet-to-be-verbalised’ mind! :-) What you’ve said here are thoughts I have been having but I have not been able to form them into constructive sentences. The only change I would make is that when I am told I am being loud, ok I can reduce the volume, but when I’m told I am patronising, lecturing or condescending I have no clue what to do and when I ask for examples, details or just something to help me distinguish between how each of these things sound, I get shoulder shrugs or vague “you just do” type things which are no help at all, I need specifics. I’m really confused what the opposite way for this post is? what’s the opposite of reading this post? (or am I being daft? lol) Hi Blaze, Your white right. If you told someone to F off, they’d be insulted because you know what f off means. Now, suppose you were learning a new language and on holiday you try it out and instead of asking for the time you inadvertently told some local to go shag a donkey. This is where you are stood there totally confused as to why this person is angry and annoyed at you. If you managed to calm this local down long enough to find out what you’ve done, you’d be able to repair the damage once an explanation of your error has been explained and you would naturally apologise. Now what if this local never actually explained your error, the next person you ask for the time could get just as upset or worse ,you could repeat your request to the local again, only this time he or she is really mad at al and you have no idea why. Hi Tati, My query is bout my tone in any conversation with my family who will point out that I sound like I am lecturing, condescending or patronising, etc. This is technically offensive and upsetting ,but I have no idea I am even doing it. I went for an ASD assessment and I was told I was clear, no ASD at all as I demonstrated small things like good eye-contact, etc. A friend of our has a 12 year old boy with Aspergers and his eye contact’s fine, but if Aspergers is also on the spectrum then I was assessed for it too. Blaze, Really not getting your last post, perhaps this is what you meant (corrections in blue): You are correct that it depends on how it's interpreted, but it's rare (imo) for people to use the terms patronising without feeling offended, especially if you explain there's no intention to be patronising and it hasn't smoothed it over. I wd would imagine that because family members bring it up and aren't placated by the explaination of no intent that they are very hurt by this behaviour. I think when it's family members it's only reasonable to try and make the effort to adapt how we come accross to them as well as them making the effort to understand why that's hard.If this is what you are saying then I would resond by saying that I am here ,asking for help as I am fed up with feeling like I should keep my mouth shut when I want to contribute to any conversation in my home, I'm fed up with wanting to say something but feeling like I can't because it might upset them or her, none of which I have any control over. I'm here now asking for tips, pointers and help to try and eliminate this flawed characteristic, but without more information about it ther is simply nothing I can do about it. I don't like your phrase "why that's hard." it's not hard, it's impossible without a map. If I had this map, it would have been gone long ago. Then you have to get the map- emotional skills are often things nts struggle with also, they simpley may not know how to verbalise why they feel patronised or cobdasended to either- often nts are equally at a loss as how to put this into words. They are however telling you they are upset by it, itsfair that in a relationship you take that on board and work on it together- which lays the responsibility of finding a map as much at your door as theirs. Your analogy is revealing, if, regardless of what I thought I was communicating I found the same upset response repeatedly I would assume I'd gone wrong somewhere and try and figure out what I CD resolve myelf, even if the others wdnt communicate what I'd done to upset them. There are so many things I didn't have maps too, thats the nature of disability's, but I try billions of ways to try and get those maps. Doesn't always work, but I do try and bear in mind nts don't necessarily have the map either. This analogy stuff is giving me ahead ache & I need to put kidk off to bed. You posted here, you will enevitabley get a variety of responses, some will work for you some won't, I listed several ideas, if they aren't for you then I hope someone has an answer for you.
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Post by tati on Jun 9, 2015 19:13:55 GMT
Now that things are clearer, I would insist on family therapy as already told by Blaze (this could give you more support and understanding from your relatives, which is a big help in managing things like ADHD).
In addition to this, some form of training/couching for interacting with people could spare you from explaining ADHD to every new person you meet. Blaze, again, suggested a specifical one called "non-violent communication". It's also called "Collaborative Communication", and from what I read on wikipedia it looks very good (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nonviolent_Communication) and doesn't mean that you are "violent" in communicating... actually I think they could have chosen a better name, but well..
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Post by JJ on Jun 10, 2015 9:30:17 GMT
I disagree that not having awareness means you can't develop it, I had no focus, no concentration, no motivation at various points in my life- I have somewhat learned these things. . It's great if you've managed to improve your focus and concentration. But you're wrong to think that people who have social and communication impairments in the way Wavey75 has described can just try / work harder to understand these non verbal means of communication on anything other than a basic level if they don't have the neurology that allows for it. If this was right then there would be a cure for a whole triad of impairment in autism. Wavey75 has tried but can't understand what they're perceiving to upset him. His brain isn't wired to distinguish those things, end of. My 16 year old has ASD and has had excellent intensive therapy since he was 2-3. There's now lots of social situations he can read, but it's done through a different brain route and it's not inherent and natural. He has to actively do it and, despite his best efforts, and me explaining things patiently, in minute detail, some things are just beyond his neurology. Eg I've taught him to watch people's eye contact and if it starts wavering, it might mean they want the conversation to end. He looks out for this, but can't read signs beyond this that might tell him if they're bored or if they're genuinely interested but just pushed for time. So he has to verbally check and then take their answer on face value. To this day I point out people's body language, voice tones, non verbal communication but there are some things he just can't get. Worryingly, he doesn't comprehend potentially threatening situations - a few times we've been out and I've felt uncomfortable (say if someone on a train makes everyone feel wary) and he's been totally unaware and not understood why we've moved, despite me explaining in minute detail and demonstrating. He's intelligent, willing to learn and understands why it's beneficial. He took his Eng Lit GCSE a year early and got A*, he's just taken English AS and is predicted an A. You can't do that without having quite a developed understanding of non verbal language, but nevertheless, there are things he's just not capable of. Like colour blind people in my example before. So Wavey75 isn't being rude. He's being asked to understand a foreign language, no one's explaining the rules to him and he doesn't have the equipment anyway. There's a certain irony in your excusing his family from explaining things properly to him because it's hard! If they can't explain it, how are they expecting him to understand? There needs to be give and take. They need to find a way of communicating that's firmly within the bounds of achievable. He's trying to understand but has a near impossible task without their help or acceptance that he's not the same as them. They need to stop defaulting to 'offended', take a step back, be rational and reasonable and find a realistically workable solution. Wavey75 - in response to your question, I meant that I had an opposite reaction to the other people who replied. And also, your eye contact can be ok with ASD - my son's is. But in any case, as ADHD and ASD are highly genetic and commonly comorbid, it's not surprising there are shared characteristics, even if not enough of one type to meet the entire diagnostic criteria.
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Post by blaze on Jun 10, 2015 11:45:37 GMT
I never claimed they CD just improve things by just working harder- that's taken totally out of context. I spent yes working in resodential schools etc and have seen lots of kids with ASD, odd, PDA, etc develop some awareness with lots of help and therapy and training. Certainly plenty didn't, but life circumstances played a big part in that (we mostly took in abused kids on place of safety orders waiting til they were sent to secure). Even at the point where someone is u able to pick up on social cues ever that doesn't mean they aren't capable of developing coping mechanisms to allow them to commicate that confusion like nvc etc in a way that helps the other person understand and communicate more effectively also. When it comes to any valued relationship it takes making the effort to work togethervon such an issue, not just claiming the other person shdput up with hurtful behaviour - and people rarely use the terms patronising and condasending if they are happy being treated that way. I didn't excuse them not being able to pin point why they are feeling that way (again youve taken that out of context) but I said nts don't just magicaly have excellent emotional skills jst because they don't have disability's, and just because we have disability's doesn't mean we can just sit back and expect them to put up with feeling hurt, they have to work on that also, but there's a huge variety of things that effect relationship skills- not just disability's, and they won't necessarily be able to pick up all the slack on there own.
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Post by Wavey75 on Jun 10, 2015 20:21:30 GMT
Hi Blaze,
Rather than me going through your posts and correcting them to ask you if that is what you meant, I;m just going to thank you for your contributions and let you know that I am not able to follow your communications clearly enough for them to have any meaning to me,
I will say that I have felt that your responses have seemed to have a certain tone that I am being rude and I must do something about it, because I am upsetting others.
I know that you have said that it is as much my responsibility to fix this as much as it is my family’s, but up until that point, it really hasn’t sounded like that to me.
I take your previous points and I have responded to them with reasons as to why they will / won’t / aren’t working for me, but like you say there will be other posts with other suggestions for me to follow.
Hi Tati,
Thank you for your reply. These problems have gone on for many years, while my 3 daughters grew up in our blended household. youngest is now 16 and will be independent and out with friends most of the time, middle daughter has her own child and partner she lives with and her attitude towards ADHD is “I know all about that, we did it at school in my BTEC Health & Social…” (which really pisses me off) and eldest works full time and lives with her boyfriend who is a complete idiot, but she loves him and she would agree to family therapy, but it would have to fit around her schedule.
So, youngest might, but as long as it didn’t clash with her social life, middle daughter thinks it’s a waste of time and eldest would, but unlikely we’d be able to find therapy appointments when she’s not working or sounds regular time with her boyfriend as they both work.
Training / coaching - I had an appointment with an ADHD coach and it was cancelled due to illness and then when I contacted her to rearrange, she said she was stopping her therapy due to health issues, and she’s the closest ADHD coach for miles to me. I don’t like the idea of video calling someone, as I struggle to absorb things unless they are written down and read aloud, etc.
The non-violent communication thing sounds interesting, but I’m thinking it’s going to be a long process to learn it. It took me 9 years to learn ho to use mindfulness.
Hi JJ,
You are just brilliant. Everything I am feeling and thinking about this frustrating flaw you are saying. I have wondered for sometime if I do meet the criteria for Aspergers, but I’ve never really pushed it. I did have an ASD assessment, but give that the assessor got much of my details wrong I am thinking that it might be worth asking for a specific Aspergers assessment.
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Post by blaze on Jun 11, 2015 6:00:31 GMT
Op- no one is going to take something from everyone's posts, that's no biggy. You said you told your family you were being patronising and continued on as before - that's what I said you had to take responsibility for. Your family arnt here or part of this discussion, their perspective on this maybe very different from how you're describing the situation- it'd be silly of anyone to advice them when that's the case. You're the one we can offer suggestions to, I'm glad you now have looked at nvc, even if you dismissed it when I first suggested it. Not everyone here will clic and be useful to each other, that's a non issue- but I do think people don't use words like being condasended to reoeatedly unless they are hurting, pressumabley as this is family then their feelings are v important to you- under those circumstances your prior claim that after informing them otherwise you'd just continue on definately comes across as rude, your word. We cant control others behaviour, only our own (and where we struggle with the direct behaviour then change other aspects like communication to get ourselves heard better) so it'd be pointless to suggest ideas for your family to do unless they want to join to use the family section.
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Post by Wavey75 on Jun 11, 2015 11:15:56 GMT
Hi Blaze, I am confused by your post - makes no sense to me, sorry.
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Post by tati on Jun 11, 2015 11:23:06 GMT
Now I see that you mean your daughters... I was picturing you with your parents/siblings/spouse... It's quite common for sons/daughter to move critiques to their parents and perceive them as patronising and for sure it is made more complicate by the ADHD/Asperger thing. I'm not a psychologist, but being the daughter of an OCD mother and an (probably) ADHD father, I could guess that your daughters love you and appreciate all the efforts that you made for them, but at the same time they are angry and exausted for the difficulties they faced as children/daughters. And being this hereditary, do they have difficulties too? Maybe they are putting a lot of effort in compensating it? It happens very often that ADHD and Asperger women, they manage somehow to compensate their problems, but the effort can be excruciating. In this case they could appear to have few or no problem, while they are struggling inside every single day of their life. I know I'm repetitive, but family therapy could be a very good thing, at least with the girls that are ok with doing it. For the coach, find another one. If you don't find it in the nearby, don't discard the idea of video calls. While I understand that the video call is annoying, there's an advantage that maybe you didn't think of: you can record them! And then write them down and read them aloud. I know it's exhausting to make effort after effort, and sometimes see little or no result, and having to start again. But I can't even think of giving up, I will keep on fighting as long as I'm alive, if needed (and I want to live to my 100, as minimum ). So keep on fighting good luck Wavey!
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Post by tati on Jun 11, 2015 11:29:21 GMT
Dyslexia? could be the problem with reading the posts from Blaze. It's often comorbid with ADHD, so you could have it both, or one of you could. I have a similar problem, dysgraphia, people can't read my handwriting and I can't help with it.. (unless I'm allowed to write really, but really slow)
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Post by JJ on Jun 11, 2015 12:13:10 GMT
Dyslexia? could be the problem with reading the posts from Blaze. It's often comorbid with ADHD, so you could have it both, or one of you could. I have a similar problem, dysgraphia, people can't read my handwriting and I can't help with it.. (unless I'm allowed to write really, but really slow) My ADHD brain finds it incredibly difficult to read Blaze's posts because they're huge blocks of text with no spaces mainly, but also so many shortened words are hard to understand. I frequently don't get through them. I don't have dyslexia - just ADHD - many people with ADHD can't read easily unless there are some paragraphs.
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Post by tati on Jun 11, 2015 12:54:24 GMT
Ok, my fault i was confusing dysorthography with dyslexia (or more precisely, I was merging the two into one! I thought that what they call dysorthography was part of dyslexia, but it's a thing of it's own) www.centroumanamente.it/en/diagnosis-and-treatment-of-specific-learning-disabilities/specific-learning-disorders-insights.htmlDisorthograpy is the difficutly in placing words and letters together, and is similar to dyslexia, dyscalculia, dysgraphia and so on: the person has perfectly normal intelligence but has difficulties in putting toghether written phrases, and can't help it. (not to be confused with dysgraphia, a chronically bad handwriting in wich the orthography would be correct, if it was readable..) Yes, I think the difficulty could come from dysortography "meeting" ADHD. ADHD trying to read into dysorthograpy.
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Post by blaze on Jun 11, 2015 13:24:26 GMT
I have disgraphia- hense muddled spelling due to sequencing. However most adults only need a few of the correct letters in the right place to read correctly, maybe not the case for nds although it is for me. There's obligation for everyone to read everything though, I'm not offended if not everyone catches on, there's plenty posts I just avoid because the style of writing is top hard to consrntrare on- I'd save that energy for where it matters like work, or communication re kids. My finger joints are bad also from hmjs/eds. But like I said there no obligation for everyone to read or understand everyone's posts, I find more than enough people do.
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Post by blaze on Jun 11, 2015 13:29:45 GMT
Ok, my fault i was confusing dysorthography with dyslexia (or more precisely, I was merging the two into one! I thought that what they call dysorthography was part of dyslexia, but it's a thing of it's own) www.centroumanamente.it/en/diagnosis-and-treatment-of-specific-learning-disabilities/specific-learning-disorders-insights.htmlDisorthograpy is the difficutly in placing words and letters together, and is similar to dyslexia, dyscalculia, dysgraphia and so on: the person has perfectly normal intelligence but has difficulties in putting toghether written phrases, and can't help it. (not to be confused with dysgraphia, a chronically bad handwriting in wich the orthography would be correct, if it was readable..) Yes, I think the difficulty could come from dysortography "meeting" ADHD. ADHD trying to read into dysorthograpy. Hmm nope disgraphia includes upside down spelling also, because its a sequencing problem in the brain (its tested for by repeating back a sequence of numbers/letters) and it effect the sequence of how we write. It also effects things like setance structure and organising essays etc. I have dyscalculia also- same thing but numbers, on top ofadhd. Commonly most people DX with developmental disorders have three DX. I remember chatting to Mary colley yrs ago about how strange it is threeseems to be the average. I think my kids have atleastfour DDS.... And that's before they are old enough to be assessed for disgraphia etc......
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Post by blaze on Jun 11, 2015 13:32:28 GMT
Dyslexia? could be the problem with reading the posts from Blaze. It's often com)orbid with ADHD, so you could have it both, or one of you could. I have a similar problem, dysgraphia, people can't read my handwriting and I can't help with it.. (unless I'm allowed to write really, but really slow) My ADHD brain finds it incredibly difficult to read Blaze's posts because they're huge blocks of text with no spaces mainly, but also so many shortened words are hard to understand. I frequently don't get through them. I don't have dyslexia - just ADHD - many people with ADHD can't read easily unless there are some paragraphs. I often find it harder to read with many short paras, so its different for everyone. As a kid I much preferred reading the beat generation style of continuous prose- both keroac and cassady are believed to have had ADHD (amoung other tjings)
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Post by tati on Jun 11, 2015 13:51:59 GMT
All this names are really confusing... isn't dysgraphia a very bad handwriting? Calligraphy, I mean. A calligraphy so bad that you often can't read your own hand-written text? But not necessarily involves grammar/ortography? I find conflicting informations in internet too, but I thought it could exist as as separated from dyslexia and dysortography... For me, for example, I find it very difficult to write by hands, but I can write on the computer for example... (Sorry for the OT Wavey75)
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Post by tati on Jun 11, 2015 13:59:33 GMT
I have dys(graphia?), dyspraxia and mild dyscalculia, btw.. the rule of 3
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Post by Deleted on Jun 11, 2015 14:18:49 GMT
TANGENT ALERT!
ADHDers handwriting usually sucks.
I think it's a fine (very) motor control issue.
My solution - use the biggest ball point you can find (eg 1mm) and place your paper on something with a bit of give - eg a couple of sheets of newspaper.
The increased work your hand has to do to overcome the drag dampens the fine jitters we have - et voila, much improved handwriting.
You can actually read mine!
Sorry - it doesn't stop you writing complete rubbish.
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Post by tati on Jun 11, 2015 18:54:50 GMT
I only knew dysgraphia as it's described in the website from the psychiatric centre that I already linked some posts above. They say:
" Dysgraphia is a difficulty in writing regarding the graphic look and reproduction of alphabetic and numeric signs, namely the creation of manual graphemes, connected to the motor execution of the performance. It can manifest as irregularities in writing, for example: poor fluidity, inadequate pressure of the pen on the paper, reversals in the direction of movement, inability to comply with the size and shape of the letters, incorrect grip of the pen. It can also be manifested as difficulty in using the space available: non-compliance of the paper edges, presence of irregular spaces between letters and between words, inability to follow the line of writing, resulting in a tendency to go "up" or "down" with respect to the line. Finally, it may present as a difficulty in copying: from the blackboard, geometric shapes and images "It's not that I've done a lot of research, but I finished the school in 1996 and getting a diagnosis now would be useless (the law for this kind of disabilities is very recent in Italy). So maybe mine is just bad handwriting and dysgraphia is another thing, but writing rubbish wasn't my intention at all. I was just trying to find an explanation for Wave not understanding Blaze, because they were having (imo) a useful confrontation and it was a pity seeing they were giving up the efforts to understand each other, and I thought that what Blaze had was called "disortography"... (while she has had a dyagnosis for dysgraphia, If I understood correctly) Also, thanks for the suggestion on the pen and paper, but as I said I've finished school many years ago and now I almost don't use handwriting any more. And I've tried a lot of pens... in my case i only get a readable calligaphy if I go very slowly, "drawing" the words. But as I said this is not an issue for me any more. ps, what does "tangent alert" means?
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