|
Post by adhdude on Nov 21, 2015 23:53:52 GMT
Telling would allow for extra time in assessment tests and possibly also other accommodations during the job.
Not telling guarantees no discrimination, which may otherwise be quite prevalent considering the controversy surrounding ADHD / high impact on daily tasks.
|
|
|
Post by Bee on Nov 22, 2015 1:46:11 GMT
I think there needs to be more options - for me, I decided to tell my manager, I'm open about it with everyone.
I don't think I would have voted 'Yes - Definitely!!' If there was another option because it depends on the situation.
|
|
aldedah
Member's posted somewhat
Posts: 57
|
Post by aldedah on Nov 22, 2015 2:12:07 GMT
Very much depends on your company, your manager. The right company will be accommodating and try to help. The wrong company will use it against you. Depending what you do, that might help put you in the direction of a good company to work for.
I think these days most companies are generally pretty good about this kind of thing, and would prefer to hear a medical reason, rather than a list of pathetic excuses which would be grounds for being dismissed.
|
|
|
Post by adhdude on Nov 23, 2015 0:23:41 GMT
Thanks for your responses. That's true, it does depend on the company/situation. If you were to make a decision about disclosing during the application stage before getting to know the company properly, though, what would you do (i.e. would you mention it in cover letters / interviews)?
|
|
|
Post by manson88 on Nov 23, 2015 0:46:59 GMT
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 23, 2015 1:35:25 GMT
I wouldn't mention it in a letter or interview. The only place I might consider disclosure is in a pre-employment medical, but even then I would be unsure.
|
|
|
Post by manson88 on Nov 23, 2015 9:27:16 GMT
Sorry I was trying to say this earlier.
Having Adhd would be an indirect disability. Were it's not obvious but it may create an issue.
Example, if you turned up with one arm they would have to make a reasonable adjustment, which they would get a grant from the government.
But you don't have to tell them and also it's not a dismissal if you don't.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 23, 2015 10:03:39 GMT
What's an indirect disability?
Unless you know better then you either are/aren't disabled according to the Equalities Act 2010 (though N.I. frequently drags its feet in these matters).
I have disclosed to 2 employers; one when already a year+ in and another at interview.
I had problems with both - attitudes to me changed in the already employed company (there was a barrage of 'requests' for me to utilise their counselling service, which came complete with veiled threats) and I failed to get the job in the second case.
That was interesting - several weeks later the boss (<15 employees) phoned me up, explained why I hadn't been the first choice (nutter worries) and offered me the job, which should have rung alarm bells; the first choice had started the job and left.
I lasted three weeks before cracking (apparently it used to be two peoples job rolled into one).
I have also had an NHS foundation trust HR department ask me for advice on their latest recruit (an ADHDer) - this is a quote from their email
'what sort of trouble should we expect?'
If a foundation trust can't get it together what chance anyone else?
That's not saying all employers are that ridiculous but you can't tell just by the name over the door.
I therefore recommend not disclosing till you've been there over a year, unless you get out of your depth earlier.
|
|
|
Post by blaze on Nov 24, 2015 6:03:15 GMT
I allways have - told at interviews for residential childcare, mh jobs etc- allways talked up positives. Didn't tell at last intervuew- not intensionally just didnt comeup, told everyone once working. [- never been a bad thing, but i am great at work (studying was harder and tutors were awful & dudnt comly with reasonable adjustments). Only reasonable adjustment i needed at work was no nightshift so i guess it was easy for me in that sense.br] Generally i'd say it depends on what you feel, and possibley worth considering the industry company etc- i dont think anyone should be made to feel bad for not telling, but i generally find honesty is morehelpful (for me).
|
|
ananse
Member's posted somewhat
Posts: 73
|
Post by ananse on Nov 24, 2015 10:41:55 GMT
Next time I'll probably be open at the interview and I'll mention it as positive thing when asked about my good qualities. Like 'You know, I've ADHD which means I'm very good at...' whatever. This will naturally lead into next question, the one about the weak sides. Then I'll answer that I can do all things normal people do, only it's not obvious to me, and that I may have to ask questions about things normal people automatisize very quickly. I might mention that in a positive climate, people seem to accept personal differences, and then asking questions is no big deal. Kind of pushing some of the responsability over to them... 'You have a positive climate here, right?'
This is not about being honest - man, who's honest in an employment interview?? It more about saving my own ass. You knew this all along when you hired me. Also, it's very appearant to anyone that I'm different, I'll rather have they say 'Well he has ADHD' rather than speculate about psychiatric diseases, personality disorders, drug abuse, borderline-psychotic problems, etc.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 24, 2015 13:03:10 GMT
Honestly, if I were a recruiter, I would personally give the side-eye to someone who mentioned ADHD as a positive strength in an interview. And I would probably have to bite my lip furiously not to smile, as the Appraisals episode from Ricky Gervais's The Office would spring straight to mind... the one where Keith had listed his strengths as "accounts" and his weaknesses as "eczema". A job interview is a short period of time when you need to be focused on selling yourself in a very specific way, tailored to a specific job. Questions about your personal strengths are aimed at getting you to identify your own personal examples of the ways in which you meet the specific job criteria. It isn't appropriate to use an interview to "educate" the recruiter in any way. You have no idea what their own experience may be and the interview is not set up for either side to educate the other in any way other than is directly relevant to the job. Recruitment is all about discrimination by lawful means. It's about separating the wheat from the chaff and finding the best candidate who will meet specific criteria. Employers are required to consider reasonable adjustments for people who declare disabilities, but they can justifiably eliminate anyone who doesn't meet the specific requirements on the day of interview. If you steer the conversation away from the intended topic and start challenging them before you have even got your foot through the door, they may well write you off as being too much like hard work.
|
|
|
Post by blaze on Nov 24, 2015 14:59:09 GMT
Honestly, if I were a recruiter, I would personally give the side-eye to someone who mentioned ADHD as a positive strength in an interview. And I would probably have to bite my lip furiously not to smile, as the Appraisals episode from Ricky Gervais's The Office would spring straight to mind... the one where Keith had listed his strengths as "accounts" and his weaknesses as "eczema". A job interview is a short period of time when you need to be focused on selling yourself in a very specific way, tailored to a specific job. Questions about your personal strengths are aimed at getting you to identify your own personal examples of the ways in which you meet the specific job criteria. It isn't appropriate to use an interview to "educate" the recruiter in any way. You have no idea what their own experience may be and the interview is not set up for either side to educate the other in any way other than is directly relevant to the job. Recruitment is all about discrimination by lawful means. It's about separating the wheat from the chaff and finding the best candidate who will meet specific criteria. Employers are required to consider reasonable adjustments for people who declare disabilities, but they can justifiably eliminate anyone who doesn't meet the specific requirements on the day of interview. If you steer the conversation away from the intended topic and start challenging them before you have even got your foot through the door, they may well write you off as being too much like hard work. it has been part of the intended topics at interviews for me- what experience of the mental health system do you have? What do you know about kids with disabilities? What does mental health mean to you? Etc type questions. From their it becomes rather straight forward to add in personal experience, and emphasise the positives of adhd. It didn't come up in my most recent interview as there wasn't that type of question, but it came up in conversation shortly afterwards, and was never a negative. I guess this relates to specific areas of work, but rather large ones- hcp, teachers, nursery staff, ta's, anyone working with anyone with disabilities may find it more helpful to be straight forward about it if they can put a positive spin on it. I guess lots of areas of work wouldn't see it that way, but i wouldn't know enough to comment there though. I don't think pp is off suggesting they ask about the workplace attitudes though- asking intresting, progressive questions can be a positive within interviews, while sometimes it may just be the interviews perspective there could be larger company attitude present (some employers take a v pro disabilities stance etc)
|
|
|
Post by hermanli on Nov 24, 2015 15:49:16 GMT
I would not mention ADHD at time of application, because unfortunately public awareness/understanding of ADHD is poor, and it has very negative connotations of being a manic, hyperactive, possibly violent/disruptive person of low intelligence. This is REALLY REALLY BAD but I struggle to get jobs and that is how people view the condition.
I would however happily disclose ADHD quite proudly, once I had the job!
In terms of disclosure at time of application, I would do so for ASD. Because the image of this is more balanced. Sure you may be one of those with significant learning disability, perhaps non verbal, or you could be a high IQ genius with meticulous attention to detail. If employers believe that, then even having the negative attributes of terrible/offensive social skills, unpleasant appearance, lack of empathy etc.. I can deal with those because I am able to effectively disprove them in an interview.
I cant however disprove the negative (perceived) attributes of ADHD during an interview.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 24, 2015 18:28:31 GMT
blaze , I can imagine it may be helpful to talk about how you have overcome your own difficulties, or what you have learned through your own experience in some cases. But it is a very difficult thing to sell a "disorder" as a strength, imo and therefore safer and simpler in most cases to simply describe your strengths without mentioning ADHD. For example, "I'm good at thinking on my feet and managing crises and I so I think I would be very comfortable with [insert job specific info here ] . "I'm an energetic person and I don't tire easily so [X aspect of the role ] really appeals to me. Why risk a negative perception of yourself by adding "because I have ADHD" to any of this? An employer will usually ask about health issues after making a job offer and before issuing a contract. Or they will put in a separate health form with the application form which should normally not be passed to the interviewer. It is much harder for an employer to withdraw a job offer than to find a reason not to select you in the first place, so unless your ADHD is likely to cause you serious problems, why mention it at all in the precious half hour that is allocated to hearing about all the ways you ARE suited to the job? I guess it depends mostly on what you want as an outcome of disclosure. For me, I can see no benefit to disclosure as I can think of no reasonable adjustments that I could request in the line of work I am thinking of.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 24, 2015 23:27:33 GMT
...asking intresting, progressive questions can be a positive within interviews, while sometimes it may just be the interviews perspective there could be larger company attitude present (some employers take a v pro disabilities stance etc) But that's a could and under certain circumstances. If you go back to my last post - even the NHS, who you'd think would be leaders in progressive attitudes, still harbours negative staff. Winning in interview is like being a goalkeeper when the employer is an attacker - they can have many shots, and it's not fatal if they miss. If the goalkeeper boobs just once then you've just gone behind and have twice as much work to do. You really can't afford to disclose until you know that they're onside.
|
|
aldedah
Member's posted somewhat
Posts: 57
|
Post by aldedah on Nov 24, 2015 23:48:12 GMT
I would not bring it up in an interview as you have no idea of their understanding of ADHD, as well as each person is different.
Sell your strengths, that may or may not be related to ADHD.
Unless it's a job that has some kind of mental health assessment it's not relevant and it's unlikely going to help you get the job to start with.
Down the track, once you've got the job, then you can possibly bring it up especially if it's affecting performance or if there are some special considerations you need - for instance if being on time is extremely difficult or you need to regular see a doctor etc.
It's nothing to be ashamed of, but also you don't need to list out all your health issues in an interview if it's not relevant to the job.
|
|
|
Post by No on Nov 25, 2015 1:49:54 GMT
We are all masters of justifying what we want but the simple truth is, there are no benefits to disclosing to an employer. *Anything* you bring to the table is strengthened by not having ADHD. If you think it'll give you a Get-Out-Of-Jail-FREE-Cardâ„¢, you might want to consider your career prospects. This is hard to do when you can barely get past an interview, I know. Also, the context under which you disclose dictates the image of ADHD you project. You're not just representing yourself once you disclose, you become their definitive model from which they will share your endeavours as the baseline. If you're awesome, they will be open to the idea that others with ADHD are awesome. If you're shit at that particular job... tough tits for the rest of us, I guess We're actually rather good at the stuff we like to do. Why allow misconception to hold us back?
|
|
|
Post by blaze on Nov 25, 2015 7:33:14 GMT
We are all masters of justifying what we want but the simple truth is, there are no benefits to disclosing to an employer. *Anything* you bring to the table is strengthened by not having ADHD. If you think it'll give you a Get-Out-Of-Jail-ïFREE-Card™, you might want to consider your career prospects. This is hard to do when you can barely get past an interview, I know. Also, the context under which you disclose dictates the image of ADHD you project. You're not just representing yourself once you disclose, you become their definitive model from which they will share your endeavours as the baseline. If you're awesome, they will be open to the idea that others with ADHD are awesome. If you're shit at that particular job... tough tits for the rest of us, I guess We're actually rather good at the stuff we like to do. Why allow misconception to hold us back? we are not a grouping, no one is relresenting anyone, people are individuals. i have never not gotton a job i have applied for, bar one where it turned out the hours were different from advertised when i got to the interview, so i have no idea what thats like so i guess i dont worry about disclosing in the same way many people do, the interviews i'vementioned it at were a huge success for me. I would likely think differently if i had ever struggled to get or keep a job but i have no experience of that. I would likely choose differently in different areas of work also, but its allways been relevant to my job.
|
|
|
Post by Babble on Nov 25, 2015 10:46:15 GMT
I wouldn't tell an employer about ADD before I started working, or afterwards probably. I'll admit, I've debated about it at my current workplace, and still do when I'm struggling, but I feel I'm better off keeping it to myself for a number of reasons.
First, it shouldn't be relevant. I feel like my telling them would be too much like saying 'this may be a problem', and it isn't. I work hard to make sure it isn't.
Second, it's none of their damn business. My personal problems are just that - personal. If a prospective employer asked me to disclose anything like that, where would it end? Should I tell them that I occasionally can't sleep because I'm too busy building castles in the clouds, that clowns make me uncomfortable in a 'where is the nearest machete' kinda way, and that casual racism will cause me to act like the sarcastic little shit that I am, which may lead to interpersonal issues? All or nothing, you can't have it both ways, buddy.
Third, I don't want any employer of mine to fall into the trap of blaming every single screw up on the ADHD. I'm human, I make mistakes - as soon as you start playing the 'she made a mistake, must be the ADHD' card, the ADHD starts to become a problem. That can only lead to bad things imo, for me and any later employee with ADHD.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 25, 2015 14:00:51 GMT
I agree that none of us is responsible for the image the entire population with ADHD. It is more because I have seen too many judgemental attitudes at work that I would be reluctant to disclose. It is good to hear of your positive experience though blaze . Am I correct in thinking that the legal position is that if you want reasonable adjustments then you must declare known conditions at the start of your contract, or as soon as you become aware of them? So you can't have it both ways and decide to disclose your condition and then seek adjustments at a point where you are in trouble for failing to meet objectives? In that situation an employer may still decide to help you, but you can't invoke the protection of the Equality Act if you have deliberately withheld information up to that point. But I could be behind the times with that understanding?
|
|
|
Post by blaze on Nov 25, 2015 15:14:50 GMT
I only have experience of reasonable adjustmebts at uni & one job where i was taken off nights (we worked a variety lf shifts) which in part was due to mucking up taking adhd meds (but came about after injuries related to my ed) so involved pain meds & side effects .my employers were great about not doing nights, but still officially had to go through oh etc.
I would expect there could be a variety of situations where the need for ra becomes evident later on down the line- job description changes, extra responsiity given, studying or training beclmes required, condition worsens in effect etc it wouldn't make sense to disclose (for someone who prefers not to-obviously not speaking about myself) incase what ifs come about later on- so there must be some flexibility.
thinking about it i don't think i cd ever intend not to disclose- i think my lack of impulse control means it'd come out at some point anyways (especially with my kids begining the assessment process for dds) and i never tell anyone anything with a keep it secret- so i think i prefer tohave ways of commicating what i want about it, being comfortable with being open because i simly cant stop myself being open. Thats true of anything with me though, i would be open about my abusive childhood to anyone- j just know how to phrase it.
|
|
|
Post by adhdude on Nov 26, 2015 18:09:03 GMT
Thanks everyone for all the advice - it was all extremely helpful! I think I've decided now not to disclose.
Btw, has anyone ever heard of Employ-Ability? Not sure if I can post links, so I'll leave that down to you guys and Google if you want to check it out. It seems to be a recruitment agency specially built for disabled candidates (and candidates with other conditions such as ADHD, if you don't see it as a disability). I was going to use it before deciding not to tell. Not sure what you all might think of it?
|
|
|
Post by No on Nov 26, 2015 18:17:10 GMT
I guess I'm in the minority then! I long for the day when ADHDers are recognised as experts for the value we can bring and not chuckled at affectionately as we scamper from peak to trough I always look for opportunities to realise this but I've not even come close yet. As an aside, if Maslow is to be believed, then 'belonging' (level 3) is a deficit need that needs to be fulfilled like any other. If the group you belong to is perceived to be good, strong and wholesome, the benefits from that can elevate you significantly into level 4, perhaps. We all have a path, I suppose? All we can do is try and enjoy it and maybe even influence it occasionally
|
|
aldedah
Member's posted somewhat
Posts: 57
|
Post by aldedah on Nov 26, 2015 23:35:05 GMT
As someone who has employed people before I don't think if someone brought up ADHD in an interview as a strength I would immediately go "yay". Everyone with ADHD has different strengths and weaknesses. I'd rather hear about what they are.
Some people are affected quite negatively by it, some it helps them. Very much depends on the job.
It's not a super power. Although for some it can be.
If they brought it up afterwards once hired I wouldn't hold it against them. In fact I'd be very understanding.
But even from someone who "suffers" from it, it would seem like they're trying to play some kind of "card".
Although if I hired someone I previously knew had ADHD I wouldn't not hire them (if they were right for the job). I just don't think interviews are the place to have that discussion.
|
|
|
Post by blaze on Nov 27, 2015 11:42:04 GMT
I guess I'm in the minority then! I long for the day when ADHDers are recognised as experts for the value we can bring and not chuckled at affectionately as we scamper from peak to trough I always look for opportunities to realise this but I've not even come close yet. As an aside, if Maslow is to be believed, then 'belonging' (level 3) is a deficit need that needs to be fulfilled like any other. If the group you belong to is perceived to be good, strong and wholesome, the benefits from that can elevate you significantly into level 4, perhaps. We all have a path, I suppose? All we can do is try and enjoy it and maybe even influence it occasionally maslowe has been discredited forever now
|
|
|
Post by blaze on Nov 27, 2015 11:46:53 GMT
It might be worth bearing in mind that legally speaking any candidate who fullfils the minimum job requirements & ticks the disability box has to get an interview- or atleast i think thats the case, or was in scotland anyways (my wording may not have explained that correctly)
for anyone struggling to get to interview stage may find this useful i guess. Dont think theres any requirement to specify type of disability but i guess it may come up afterwards with occ health etc
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 27, 2015 11:59:16 GMT
If you declare adhd as a disability under the Two Ticks scheme,in order to get a guaranteed interview, then it will be viewed as something you consider to be a disability that requires reasonable adjustments. But in that context, it might be very difficult turning it around and presenting it as a strength at interview. At best the employer will likely feel confused and probably cheated that you played a disability card, when you actually see yourself as having adhd superpowers! I'm not saying this is what you were suggesting blaze, but just musing aloud because of the previous conversation.
|
|
|
Post by No on Nov 27, 2015 18:43:26 GMT
I guess I'm in the minority then! I long for the day when ADHDers are recognised as experts for the value we can bring and not chuckled at affectionately as we scamper from peak to trough I always look for opportunities to realise this but I've not even come close yet. As an aside, if Maslow is to be believed, then 'belonging' (level 3) is a deficit need that needs to be fulfilled like any other. If the group you belong to is perceived to be good, strong and wholesome, the benefits from that can elevate you significantly into level 4, perhaps. We all have a path, I suppose? All we can do is try and enjoy it and maybe even influence it occasionally maslowe has been discredited forever now Very interesting! If you have time, I'd love to see some of these discrediting papers for Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs. Something that has had a huge positive impact on my own life and the few close friends in disarray I've introduced it to. You sound like an incredibly passionate person, no doubt your employer feels very lucky to have you
|
|
|
Post by blaze on Nov 27, 2015 19:50:57 GMT
The very first need is satisfying hunger/food- this isnt accurate. Newborn babys cant latch until their hypothalamus signals to stimulate appitite and that doesnt happen untilthey areheld, releasing oxytocin- which iswhy skin to skin is advised. No different to the monkeys who seak out cuddley comfort mother substitute with no food rather than the one with food but no comfort. Its no different to placing food infront of someone suffering anarexia - it doesnt solve the problem, the underlying emotional needs needaddressed first. Same as someone who cant eatif stressed. And its seen in animals also- herd animals wont graze or drink unless one of theirherd is waching over them- most animals need kept in pairs atleast because of this reason. Our primary need is emotional- emotional contact/recognition/validation & is strongly tied to touch (as it releases oxytocin no doubt).
I spent yrs working in residentials etc where all the professionals recognise that maslow isn't right. Same as skinner is irrelevant as his conclusions come from experiments on rats, and the serious long lasting negative consequences of behaviour mod on humans were never something he even considered. Maslows theories on dominance are just plain perverse also, and dont takei to account how social factors effect how people think about sex.
|
|
|
Post by blaze on Nov 27, 2015 19:52:51 GMT
If you declare adhd as a disability under the Two Ticks scheme,in order to get a guaranteed interview, then it will be viewed as something you consider to be a disability that requires reasonable adjustments. But in that context, it might be very difficult turning it around and presenting it as a strength at interview. At best the employer will likely feel confused and probably cheated that you played a disability card, when you actually see yourself as having adhd superpowers! I'm not saying this is what you were suggesting blaze, but just musing aloud because of the previous conversation. Agree its a complicated one, not something ive used in that way, but it sounded like some pps struggled with getting jobs, and in our current climate may just be useful to know
|
|