aldedah
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Insomnia
Jan 1, 2016 3:17:07 GMT
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Post by aldedah on Jan 1, 2016 3:17:07 GMT
I suspect a lot of people with ADHD also suffer from insomnia (racing thoughts, hard to put away electronic devices that are stimulating etc.)
Can often be physically tired but not mentally.
Anyone successfully conquered insomnia without resorting to medication?
Or if using medication, what works and isn't addictive?
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Insomnia
Jan 1, 2016 13:52:22 GMT
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Post by Bee on Jan 1, 2016 13:52:22 GMT
I take Pregabalin for anxiety. My gp has told me he doesn't mind if I take an extra one now and again if I'm in a higher state of anxiety than usual. If I can't sleep I take an extra one and it knocks me out good and proper lol
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 2, 2016 0:35:45 GMT
All the stimulant meds work (for me) - a quiet mind is a mind that can rest (obviously the level of stimulant needs to be low).
Melatonin is good. Damn well should be since it's the sleep hormone.
Anything that reduces anxiety should be good eg beta blockers. Anxiety is not good for sleep.
There's a whole raft of stuff in 'sleep hygiene'.
I'm a tiny bit worried about pregabalin - there's a clue in the name (GABA). GABA is a neurotransmitter that damps down neuro activity - fine if you want to shut your nervous system down, but if you want to function then ADHDers usually go in the opposite direction. It seems (to me) to be a bit of a blunt instrument and a bit 'uppers to wake up, downers to sleep' cycle of dependence.
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aldedah
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Insomnia
Jan 2, 2016 2:36:00 GMT
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Post by aldedah on Jan 2, 2016 2:36:00 GMT
Interesting, a stimulant helps you sleep? I can sleep like a baby after having an e.
Never actually considered having stimulant meds late in the day, in fact was told to avoid after dinner.
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aldedah
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Insomnia
Jan 2, 2016 2:37:02 GMT
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Post by aldedah on Jan 2, 2016 2:37:02 GMT
I did have Pregablin for a bit, although found the side effects too much
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Insomnia
Jan 2, 2016 2:41:39 GMT
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Post by Bee on Jan 2, 2016 2:41:39 GMT
@planetdave I'll have to look into this! I was prescribed Pregabalin by an ADHD nurse who has it herself (ADHD that is) so I have kinda trusted everything she's said!
Only side effect I've had was dizziness. But that stopped after a while. Still not convinced it actually helps my anxiety, but it def helps me sleep.
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Post by tessaract on Jan 2, 2016 8:33:57 GMT
I was prescribed melatonin and on thise nights when I feel wide awake and I know I should be going to bed soon I take one. I dont need them every night.
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Post by bluedrifter on Jan 2, 2016 8:52:48 GMT
Hi,
I have problems with sleeping, well actually it's not getting to sleep that is the problem, my problem is that I wake up at about 4am and then can't get back to sleep.
I don't have any medication, my primary diagnosis is Asperger's Syndrome, with ADHD as a secondary condition, the psychiatrist stated that ''Asperger's trumps ADHD'' thus it is Asperger's that I get treatment for rather than ADHD.
Guess what? I don't want to take anti depressant medication, I have a GP appointment coming up soon, it's about my sleeping, I'm going to suggest some herbal remedies, see what's available on the NHS as they might be expensive to buy over the counter?
I was going to a stress clinic but after my two sessions with the nurse I was meant to join a stress relieving group but moved out of the area, so lost out. I'm living back in that area again now so, might try again, though I don't want to be included in a group of people with mild learning disabilities or/and mental health problems, not that I have anything against them, it's just that I have nothing in common and truth be told I'm not socially all that comfortable being nice to other people in group situations.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 2, 2016 23:35:19 GMT
Interesting, a stimulant helps you sleep? I can sleep like a baby after having an e. Never actually considered having stimulant meds late in the day, in fact was told to avoid after dinner. I wasn't advocating having a dose with my cocoa. Obviously stimulants will keep you awake if there is too much to sleep on - but it can be surprising how much you can actually sleep on because a normal effect is to reduce the uncontrolled noise in your head. The size of my last dose, and it's timing, is calculated by my expected bedtime. On 'school nights' it's never after 19:30.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 2, 2016 23:46:43 GMT
@planetdave I'll have to look into this! I was prescribed Pregabalin by an ADHD nurse who has it herself (ADHD that is) so I have kinda trusted everything she's said! Only side effect I've had was dizziness. But that stopped after a while. Still not convinced it actually helps my anxiety, but it def helps me sleep. Have a look at what it does. My mother started taking it for neuropathic pain last week so I had a quick look at it. I can't see any issue with it when you're asleep, or trying to. But if it isn't completely spent by the time you wake up then it's pretty much the equivalent of driving with the handbrake on.
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Post by Babble on Jan 4, 2016 10:08:03 GMT
I'd be interested in any non-medication methods of cooping with insomnia, if anyone has any advice?
No sleep last night, which is a shame, 'cause I love sleep!
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aldedah
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Insomnia
Jan 4, 2016 23:49:58 GMT
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Post by aldedah on Jan 4, 2016 23:49:58 GMT
I'd be interested in any non-medication methods of cooping with insomnia, if anyone has any advice? No sleep last night, which is a shame, 'cause I love sleep! Most of them require a lot of self control, i.e sleep hygiene, which is hard if you're an ADHDer. What works for one doesn't necessarily work for others (i.e some fall asleep watching TV, others books, for others those things keep them awake.
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aldedah
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Insomnia
Jan 4, 2016 23:51:17 GMT
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Post by aldedah on Jan 4, 2016 23:51:17 GMT
I was prescribed melatonin and on thise nights when I feel wide awake and I know I should be going to bed soon I take one. I dont need them every night. Is prescribed melatonin any different to that you can get from herbal shops. What dose is it? I mostly find it good for jet lag or resetting the body clock rather than "knocking me out"
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aldedah
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Insomnia
Jan 4, 2016 23:52:28 GMT
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Post by aldedah on Jan 4, 2016 23:52:28 GMT
Interesting, a stimulant helps you sleep? I can sleep like a baby after having an e. Never actually considered having stimulant meds late in the day, in fact was told to avoid after dinner. I wasn't advocating having a dose with my cocoa. Obviously stimulants will keep you awake if there is too much to sleep on - but it can be surprising how much you can actually sleep on because a normal effect is to reduce the uncontrolled noise in your head. The size of my last dose, and it's timing, is calculated by my expected bedtime. On 'school nights' it's never after 19:30. Interesting, so perhaps a small amount earlier in the night might help? I do get a crash about 4 hours after taking it when I'm not on anything else...
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Post by Babble on Jan 5, 2016 9:44:21 GMT
I'd be interested in any non-medication methods of cooping with insomnia, if anyone has any advice? No sleep last night, which is a shame, 'cause I love sleep! Most of them require a lot of self control, i.e sleep hygiene, which is hard if you're an ADHDer. What works for one doesn't necessarily work for others (i.e some fall asleep watching TV, others books, for others those things keep them awake. Ah, self control, the bane of my existence. I'll have to experiment then - try and find something that'll switch off my brain! I did consider trying to find a tea or something that's supposed to help with sleep (anything but chamomile!), but I'm not sure how effective it'd be.
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Post by bluedrifter on Jan 5, 2016 11:55:12 GMT
Sometimes it helps if you listen to a radio station (without music) it might help you to stop thinking about other stuff, It works for me if I can't get to sleep, I just have the volume low, it's a bit like a pacifier.
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Post by contrarymary on Jan 5, 2016 19:34:13 GMT
ooo i've just remembered that a couple of days ago i was reading about weighted blankets helping with insomnia. journal paper herethere are some interesting-sounding references too:)
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Post by tessaract on Jan 5, 2016 20:14:56 GMT
I was prescribed melatonin and on thise nights when I feel wide awake and I know I should be going to bed soon I take one. I dont need them every night. Is prescribed melatonin any different to that you can get from herbal shops. What dose is it? I mostly find it good for jet lag or resetting the body clock rather than "knocking me out" The difference between prescribed melatonin and stuff bought from the herbal store is that apparently the herbal supplement has way less regulation - according to to EU regulations. This is why melatonin is no longer available in herbal shops in Ireland. Basically it is hard to be sure on the dosage and the regulations for herbal supplements were not so strict so you could be getting a lower quality dose - as far as I know. I am prescribed something called Circaden which is the brand name for the prescription of melatonin and I take in a 2mg tablet. I'm guessing the purity is what the difference is. It costs me 50 euro per perscription although I can hold back on how many tablets I buy at any one time so the pharmacist will keep them for me and I can buy them in batches of 10 etc. May be possible to get on the NHS or do what my pharmacy does.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 6, 2016 11:03:33 GMT
ooo i've just remembered that a couple of days ago i was reading about weighted blankets helping with insomnia. journal paper herethere are some interesting-sounding references too:) I like a heavy cover, it seems to make me relax. It might tap into the 'crush' response investigated by Dr Temple Grandin* (the autism guru). You can already get therapeutic 'ball' blankets (like a duvet cover stuffed with ball pit balls) which supposedly stimulate the 'crush' response, which is kind of like acupressure and relieves stress - which is an aggravating factor for insomnia. *Look Dr Grandin up, she's really interesting, there's lots of stuff on YouTube. Her research into autism has a surprising amount of crossover into ADHD and she's quite an engaging speaker.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 6, 2016 11:10:16 GMT
I was prescribed melatonin and on thise nights when I feel wide awake and I know I should be going to bed soon I take one. I dont need them every night. Is prescribed melatonin any different to that you can get from herbal shops. What dose is it? I mostly find it good for jet lag or resetting the body clock rather than "knocking me out" You can definitely fight it off if you're not in the mood for sleep/are too stimulated. As a little extra push, on top of other sleep hygiene tactics, it gives you that extra impetus to the land of nod. Also the jet lag and body clock reset thing - I've got a bloody internet game that has messed with my circadian rhythm big time, which I want to mend.
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aldedah
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Insomnia
Jan 9, 2016 3:54:07 GMT
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Post by aldedah on Jan 9, 2016 3:54:07 GMT
Is prescribed melatonin any different to that you can get from herbal shops. What dose is it? I mostly find it good for jet lag or resetting the body clock rather than "knocking me out" The difference between prescribed melatonin and stuff bought from the herbal store is that apparently the herbal supplement has way less regulation - according to to EU regulations. This is why melatonin is no longer available in herbal shops in Ireland. Basically it is hard to be sure on the dosage and the regulations for herbal supplements were not so strict so you could be getting a lower quality dose - as far as I know. I am prescribed something called Circaden which is the brand name for the prescription of melatonin and I take in a 2mg tablet. I'm guessing the purity is what the difference is. It costs me 50 euro per perscription although I can hold back on how many tablets I buy at any one time so the pharmacist will keep them for me and I can buy them in batches of 10 etc. May be possible to get on the NHS or do what my pharmacy does. Hmm that's interesting. I've tried 2mg and 10mg tablets and don't notice much difference, although except they have helped with jet lag. Seems NHS prescribing guidelines are only for over 55s and for 3 weeks. Seems they focus more on Z drugs or benzos, both of which work but only short term. Think I need to sort out sleep hygiene....
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Post by JJ on Jan 9, 2016 4:15:22 GMT
aldedahI tried melatonin and didn't think they made a difference. The psych told me to take them in the evening. Then I spoke to someone from ADDISS who told me to take them and go to bed immediately and they should work within half an hour. the effect was biggest at 8mg for me ( I think - I can't remember for sure if the tabs are 2mg each - and I take 4) So after about 20 mins or so, I feel a bit of a wave of tiredness and I generally start yawning. This is the moment I must be strict and turn off iPad and close my eyes. There's about a 10 minute window of yawning where, if I do the strict thing, I can doze off. It's zero effort to stay awake through this window, and if I do then it's no easier to sleep and it loses any effect. So I have to work with it, but it does work like that. If you've not tried it like this then I'd definitely recommend a try.
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Post by JJ on Jan 9, 2016 4:17:30 GMT
A small dose of mph can also help sometimes (my usual dose in the day is 20mg instant, and I'm talking about taking 5mg at night )
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Post by tessaract on Jan 9, 2016 16:38:36 GMT
jj "I feel a bit of a wave of tiredness and I generally start yawning. This is the moment I must be strict and turn off iPad and close my eyes. There's about a 10 minute window of yawning where, if I do the strict thing, I can doze off." Thats it exactly, it doesnt knock you out, it just helps the body tell itself its time to go to sleep but they do not knock you out by any stretch of the imagination. Its just what happens to normal people I think, the brain releases melatonin, they yawn and say oh, must go to bed soon and get ready for bed. I think the difference with us ADHDers is that we dont have the switching between tasks and the motivation to get up, move on from whater we are doing and just go to bed.
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aldedah
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Insomnia
Jan 9, 2016 23:52:58 GMT
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Post by aldedah on Jan 9, 2016 23:52:58 GMT
Yeh I think I'd need to be chained up and forced to sleep rather than waiting for a 10 minute window of sleep opportunity ;-)
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aldedah
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Post by aldedah on Jan 15, 2016 18:55:14 GMT
Does anyone have any experience of any circadian rhythm sleep disorders? Apparently they're quite common among ADHDers compared to the rest of the population
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mc1250
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Insomnia
Jan 16, 2016 0:31:24 GMT
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Post by mc1250 on Jan 16, 2016 0:31:24 GMT
If you're looking for some way to help you sleep without chemicals. Then it's exercise and routine. I'm a desperate insomniac! It takes me hours to go sleep I envy those people who say they fall asleep as as their head hits the pillow!
Anyway back to the point. Exercise before you go bed and make it a key routine you have to stick to.
When I was on a bit of a health kick I either did 45 mins cardio on a X-trainer (get netflix on start watching your favourite series and the time will fly by) or weights/sit up's etc have a warm/hot shower and then hit the sack. I'd be out within minutes! Worked brilliantly for three months plus I lost a lot of weight!
Only wish I was still doing it, rather then letting my moobs (my moobs, my moobs, my lovely manly moobs! (Check it out)) Grow back!
Anyway it worked really well just don't seem to have the time these days!
You have to read this next bit in a robot voice as it sounds better!
"TRY IT! YOU MAY LIKE IT!"
I hope this helps!!
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aldedah
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Insomnia
Jan 16, 2016 2:28:58 GMT
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Post by aldedah on Jan 16, 2016 2:28:58 GMT
Hmm that's interesting as a lot of sleep hygiene guides mention amongst many things to not exercise in the evenings, along with pretty much everything else (not sure what you're supposed to do!) Also circadian rhythm sleep disorders are different from insomnia I've learnt, so the thread topic is somewhat confusing. A lot of techniques for dealing with insomnia don't apply. Basically means your body clock is messed up. Social jet lag it's nicknamed. I didn't really know this was a thing until recently, but apparently very connected to ADHD en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delayed_sleep_phase_disorderSeems light therapy seems the best way to deal with it, rather than the usual things like exercise, being healthy etc (they help, but not that much)
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Post by vagueandrandom on Jan 16, 2016 14:53:55 GMT
@planetdave and contrarymary sorry for the delay in responding, I've taken myself off on a communications break for various reasons for the last week. I'm really interested in the 'crush' or 'squeeze' response and weighted blankets. As anyone who's read my posts and the shoutbox knows, I have real problems with insomnia. The first 2 weeks on concerta were bliss for sleep like I've never experienced - then I went back to normal (not sleeping). I like a heavy cover and like to wear tight-fitting clothing/base layers in and out of bed. I hate summer for this. I also tend to sleep better if I share a bed (which happens very rarely) although I like to have control over the way that I'm touched. I had an ex who'd fall asleep very quickly and heavily, often holding me tightly, which I like. . .until I feel trapped because I can't sleep and can't move and their watch is deafening me. . . so a controlled pressure which could move with my hyperactive wriggling and restless legs, would be interesting to try. I'm so interested in this, I'm going to start another thread because it's not just related to insomnia and I might go off on a wild tangent.
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Post by Babble on Jan 18, 2016 10:38:10 GMT
I used to exercise before bed quite regularly, but I never found it had much effect on my sleep. If anything, exercise tends to make me feel more energetic, though it helps when my head is spinning out of control (my mind that is, I'm not possessed by the devil, I promise).
I like the sound of the weighted blankets too - I've always slept better with weighty covers. My room is so cold that I currently have a two duvets, and when I finally manage to sleep its really deep. I might try chucking another blanket on top, see what happens.
I just need to improve my sleep hygiene after that - start getting 8 hours a night instead instead of 6 or less!
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