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Post by mizmog on Sept 12, 2011 17:56:22 GMT
ok, as an ADHDer, I am usually very upfront and say things as I see them... If someone asks if they hv upset me, i tell them as I still don't get why ppl feel the need to say nothing then spend an hour bad mouthing u to other ppl!
Anyway, this happens at work too. If I think someone isn't doing something right, I will point it out to them but in a nice teacher kinda way, and if I need to flag something up to the boss, I jump before I think and I flag it up verbally and usually in the middle of the office - but its because I dont hv anything to hide! If I hv an issue, I wont lie about it, or blind copy ppl into an email just so everyone but the other person can see which seems the be the normal way to do things... and on the flip side, If i hv done something wrong etc, I want to know so I can sort it out....
My counterpart constantly emails the boss, obsessively from what i understand, detailing everything anybody might do wrong and gets so annoyed with me because of the way I do things...
What is the right way to do it? anyone know what the correct office etiquette is? and am I in danger of annoying the boss by not keeping quiet and snitching on everyone behind their backs?
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Post by Mouse on Sept 12, 2011 18:27:07 GMT
I think the correct office etiquette depends largely on the environment / atmosphere and when in doubt discretion (as much as we are able to practice it) is the watchword. I think about what I have to say then I think too much, dither and procrastinate and then either the moment has passed or I've lost the energy or the inclination. Other times the words are out and maybe not in the most diplomatic manner. If I sense that as I am saying it will apologise immediately too - just as long I am aware that I have caused offence. I worked in our family business and we used to al be cut from the same cloth - we'd all say what we thought but then none of us would ever be offended as poor choice of words and directness was never taken personally. What a luxury that is! If someone has a problem with me I'd rather they told me to my face. If I sense or hear that someone has a problem with me I will ask them if I have done something to offend them. Puts the ball back in their court and takes into account that I may well have done something unwittingly and is not as aggressive as 'WHAT IS YOUR PROBLEM? ?' I think if there is an issue, much better to get on and deal with it rather than have it festering away. Re snitching - I don't snitch but have had several horrible moments when i've spoken and realised after the event that it might have looked like me dropping someone else in the cack (the 'I, I, I' version of the 'me,me, me')
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 12, 2011 21:02:13 GMT
OP isn't that a autistic spectrum trait? I thought it was..? have you been dx'd? and anway it's a nice thing to be what the normal people call "brutal honesty". Honesty is honesty no need to put fancy words infront of it.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 13, 2011 3:39:55 GMT
If I think someone isn't doing something right, I will point it out to them i don't know about any of the other stuff but i personally hate this. i'm sure as a group a lot of us are used to being made to feel useless. so when someone points out i'm doing something wrong it makes me feel useless. i don't say anything to anyone at work. well, i haven't been there that long, but one time someone was saying something to me about something i should have done differently i challenged her but then after that it was kinda awkward between us. i also work with all women though. and everyone knows women are generally more bitchy.
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Post by kakema on Sept 13, 2011 6:00:20 GMT
OP isn't that a autistic spectrum trait? I thought it was..? have you been dx'd? and anway it's a nice thing to be what the normal people call "brutal honesty". Honesty is honesty no need to put fancy words infront of it. Yes, but in ADHDers, it's caused by a failure to filter effectively - too short a distance between thinking the thought and spitting it out. 'Normal' people think through the situation in detail, considering the tactical and strategic benefits and costs of articulating the thought in different ways. I show a number of autistic traits like that, but I'm pretty sure I'm not autistic/aspie. I was notorious for many years for 'straight talking' (sometimes found 'refreshing', other times 'blunt'), and not suffering fools gladly. I also have a very 'leaky' face. So my thought is that there's no 'right' answer, or even a handy rule of thumb; it's massively circumstantial, hence the need for more processing. I had to build strategies to force myself to consider how what I wanted to say might play out. Meds help a lot, now.
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Post by mizmog on Sept 13, 2011 12:29:08 GMT
Hi shiney, I get where ur coming from but I would never pull someone up on a personal level, I mean on a work front... Things that hv/haven't been done or done wrong... Never get personal in the office.... I am in a position that others affect my work so I jump in if it's wrong ...
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Post by kakema on Sept 13, 2011 19:07:26 GMT
Oh, I wasn't really thinking of personal remarks - I do tend to button my lip when it's personal - but when I bluntly tell someone that their lovingly crafted plan hasn't a hope in hell of succeeding, they often tend to take it rather personally...
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 13, 2011 20:06:49 GMT
OP isn't that a autistic spectrum trait? I thought it was..? have you been dx'd? and anway it's a nice thing to be what the normal people call "brutal honesty". Honesty is honesty no need to put fancy words infront of it. Yes, but in ADHDers, it's caused by a failure to filter effectively - too short a distance between thinking the thought and spitting it out. 'Normal' people think through the situation in detail, considering the tactical and strategic benefits and costs of articulating the thought in different ways. I show a number of autistic traits like that, but I'm pretty sure I'm not autistic/aspie. I was notorious for many years for 'straight talking' (sometimes found 'refreshing', other times 'blunt'), and not suffering fools gladly. I also have a very 'leaky' face. So my thought is that there's no 'right' answer, or even a handy rule of thumb; it's massively circumstantial, hence the need for more processing. I had to build strategies to force myself to consider how what I wanted to say might play out. Meds help a lot, now. oh i see, thanks for explaining.
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Post by dizzydumpling on Sept 13, 2011 21:04:00 GMT
If I think someone isn't doing something right, I will point it out to them but in a nice teacher kinda way, and if I need to flag something up to the boss, I jump before I think and I flag it up verbally and usually in the middle of the office - but its because I dont hv anything to hide! Mizmog, I don't know if I got the wrong end of the stick, but does this mean that you pull people up for their mistakes in front of others? That's the only thing that I would have a problem with, as I'd prefer someone to speak to me quietly on my own without others knowing. And I guess unless it was a major issue (such as someone being abused or something) I'd always take a problem up with the individual first before telling the boss that there was a problem. Give them the chance to sort it out by themselves. Other than that, I'd personally much rather the honest straightforward approach to the bitching and sneaky emails! I've never worked in an office, so I don't know about office etiquette, but I find most workplace politics confusing and a bit petty as a rule Seems to be pretty universal though unfortunately!
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Post by mizmog on Sept 14, 2011 9:45:34 GMT
Dizzy that's exactly it, I would never do it in front of others as I think it's nasty... But ur right it seems to be 'the more u can embarrass someone the better' in an office and I am not like that... I don't get office environments either, too much like school playground
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Post by mizmog on Sept 29, 2011 19:25:52 GMT
just thought I would share the last few days with you all, it might give some a boost (I hope)
I have had the week from hell, started with them trying to move my desk and me kicking off... anyway, the atmosphere between me and my line Manager got worse until yesterday when i got hauled into the office a second time and being told 'ur too upfront', 'u totally over reacted with the desk move', 'u hv offended everyone' (office of 6 woman) 'ppl dont want to work with you' etc etc - this all happened after i had been paraded round with the boss telling everyone I had best figures, best calls etc and even got 3 treats (chocolates mostly) for it! and I will add, I really didnt enjoy the attention and kept very quiet as the others had had a bad month...
Now even I know that rubbing ppl's noses in things like that can cause a bad press but didnt expect the next day for apparently my team to tell my boss that they cant work work with me!
I had 1.5 hours sleep last night crying/screaming/kicking and writing bullet points - so this morning I decided it was either fight or flight - it would normally hv been flight by this point - i took a deep breath and requested a meeting with the director -
I didnt hv any paper work or bits to back up my ADHD/Aspie but bit the bullet and told her that with this much animosity i felt I had no choice but to tell her as i didnt want someone else (my line Manager) using it against me....
heres the good part...
She was genuinely shocked! and it turns out, very supportive! also very hurt i hadn't gone to her before but i explained my line Manager had advised against it... oops! she has promised not to move my desk, to help with routines etc and has now removed my line Manager so I now report directly to her...
Thats the good part, the bad part however, is I still sit next to the ex line Manager who got bounced round the office for her behavior... the atmosphere is so bad and with having grievances raised against me for being blunt and for not talking at all, i just dont know how to deal with it - I tried to speak to her and my other colleagues, but they were not having any of it...
So I am hailed a hero for top sales etc, ripped apart for being the blunt b@tch from hell, then pandered to for having a disability - and I did make it clear i did NOT want to treated like i was special....
anyone any thoughts on this little scenario?
p.s and beleive me, I have done nothing but try and be very nice the last couple of weeks because no one likes being teachers pet..
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drfox
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Post by drfox on Sept 30, 2011 9:05:20 GMT
ok, as an ADHDer, I am usually very upfront and say things as I see them... If someone asks if they hv upset me, i tell them as I still don't get why ppl feel the need to say nothing then spend an hour bad mouthing u to other ppl! Anyway, this happens at work too. If I think someone isn't doing something right, I will point it out to them but in a nice teacher kinda way, and if I need to flag something up to the boss, I jump before I think and I flag it up verbally and usually in the middle of the office - but its because I dont hv anything to hide! If I hv an issue, I wont lie about it, or blind copy ppl into an email just so everyone but the other person can see which seems the be the normal way to do things... and on the flip side, If i hv done something wrong etc, I want to know so I can sort it out.... My counterpart constantly emails the boss, obsessively from what i understand, detailing everything anybody might do wrong and gets so annoyed with me because of the way I do things... What is the right way to do it? anyone know what the correct office etiquette is? and am I in danger of annoying the boss by not keeping quiet and snitching on everyone behind their backs? Hi Mizmog, I totally get you on this - I am exactly like you. I don't know if you have noticed this, but do you find yourself always on the back foot with office politics? In all my office jobs I always found myself being the brunt of some bullshit office scheming, everyone else getting the promotions etc. Its like being back at school... I was never popular there either!
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drfox
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Post by drfox on Sept 30, 2011 9:10:26 GMT
just thought I would share the last few days with you all, it might give some a boost (I hope) I have had the week from hell, started with them trying to move my desk and me kicking off... anyway, the atmosphere between me and my line Manager got worse until yesterday when i got hauled into the office a second time and being told 'ur too upfront', 'u totally over reacted with the desk move', 'u hv offended everyone' (office of 6 woman) 'ppl dont want to work with you' etc etc - this all happened after i had been paraded round with the boss telling everyone I had best figures, best calls etc and even got 3 treats (chocolates mostly) for it! and I will add, I really didnt enjoy the attention and kept very quiet as the others had had a bad month... Now even I know that rubbing ppl's noses in things like that can cause a bad press but didnt expect the next day for apparently my team to tell my boss that they cant work work with me! I had 1.5 hours sleep last night crying/screaming/kicking and writing bullet points - so this morning I decided it was either fight or flight - it would normally hv been flight by this point - i took a deep breath and requested a meeting with the director - I didnt hv any paper work or bits to back up my ADHD/Aspie but bit the bullet and told her that with this much animosity i felt I had no choice but to tell her as i didnt want someone else (my line Manager) using it against me.... heres the good part... She was genuinely shocked! and it turns out, very supportive! also very hurt i hadn't gone to her before but i explained my line Manager had advised against it... oops! she has promised not to move my desk, to help with routines etc and has now removed my line Manager so I now report directly to her... Thats the good part, the bad part however, is I still sit next to the ex line Manager who got bounced round the office for her behavior... the atmosphere is so bad and with having grievances raised against me for being blunt and for not talking at all, i just dont know how to deal with it - I tried to speak to her and my other colleagues, but they were not having any of it... So I am hailed a hero for top sales etc, ripped apart for being the blunt b@tch from hell, then pandered to for having a disability - and I did make it clear i did NOT want to treated like i was special.... anyone any thoughts on this little scenario? p.s and beleive me, I have done nothing but try and be very nice the last couple of weeks because no one likes being teachers pet.. I really should learn to read a whole thread before I go wading in... so it seems you are having trouble with the whole office politics thing. I am so sorry that you are having a bad time, I really feel for you. I regret that I can't (or perhaps shouldn't) offer any advice as I am totally useless in this area, but I empathise and am beaming warm thoughts and encouragement to you right now I hope you get it all sorted out... *big hugs*
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Post by kakema on Sept 30, 2011 10:23:25 GMT
I've been reading up, recently, on equality law and also 'reasonable accommodations'. The social and change difficulties of individuals with ASD get specific mention in a number of sources so it's not a nich issue.
Employers can be expected to train their staff sensitively about the wider needs and difficulties of disabled people, and to enforce a policy of tolerance and respect.
You need to alert your HR people to your particular needs and get these grievances dealt with more effectively. Sounds as though the managers are allowing things to be escalated far too quickly.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 30, 2011 13:12:57 GMT
I do this too - just saying it as it is, rather than beating around the bush. I put it down to my Aspergers. My mum has a habit of doing this too, which makes sense as the Aspergers seems to come from her side of the family lol.
At first, I couldn't understand why people would get angry at the truth, especially when I'm really just pointing out what is already evident. However, people are driven by emotions, moreso than logic and reason, it seems.
Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't insult someone personally, but if someone asks me to work an extra shift, for instance, I will sometimes just say "no, sorry". Apparantly, even that is too blunt for some people, as they will comment "Well, at least you're honest". I think I'm supposed to say something like, "I would love to, but I have already made prior arrangements, I'm terribly sorry". But that just seems like a waste of time to me - why beat around the bush with a sentence, when you can get straight to the point with a few words.
In the immortal words of Cordelia Chase - "Tact is just not saying true stuff. I'll pass."
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Post by redneck on Sept 30, 2011 13:30:44 GMT
Miz .. I am SO like you ... when I was at work ... I had a tell it like it is policy, bugger the niceties and all the pussyfooting around .. lets have it out in the open here and now so we know where we all stand! I just didnt care if people didnt like me, I went to work, I did my job ( better than most other not adhd!!! .. which they didnt like either!) and I got paid. End of! I cant do creepy hidden agenda things, I cant do the suck-up, and yes I am told that I have no tact whatsoever, well, I dont know how to change that, or even if I want to change it .. I cant live a lie and pretend Im somebody else .. take me as I am or go do the other thing. Thats what my dad told me to do when I was about 5 years old and getting bullied so I stick by that. I just read that back and I sound really confrontational which I really AM NOT!!! I am quite an inoffensive individual .. ah well ... just goes to show ... sorry train of thought deserted me at this point and totally forget the next bit LOL!!! Will come back if I recall (sorry Miz ) RR
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Post by mizmog on Sept 30, 2011 17:18:39 GMT
Thank u Shiney, and thnx Drfox the hug was gratefully received!
Redneck I am not an offensive person - totally the other way in fact, always willing to help anyone and refuse to drawn into gossip or bad mouthing no matter what i think of the person! but its always misconstrued! even after being given the task of taking a newbie into the office for a little chat (the kind that start with 'I have noticed your not very happy' ) cos our line Manager was being a cow to her... and when the big boss pulled me up in the same week for offending the whole office with my straight talking and abrupt attitude, I was truly shocked as she hadn't been there to see it for herself yet believed the line Managers!
I did ask for confirmation of exactly what I had said, and when she had calmed down she just kept saying it doesnt matter as it was more the way I said it -
She actually said the phrase 'you need to learn to sugar coat it' !! guess it sums it really! lol
Still, today went a lot better, did feel a little weird cos the big bosses couldn't be nice enough to me, My ex line Manager even cracked a smile and I have even been given a big project to run (eeeeek!) ... It seems the big boss has her head screwed on after all and took it seriously enough to make changes!
Unfortunately though, after having such news and upset this week stressing the poor big boss out completely, one newbie thought it was a good time to start shouting the odds.... not a good move, although I am sure the job agency are loving it!
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Post by boo on Sept 30, 2011 18:02:43 GMT
mizmog, firstly, good luck with the project secondly, if its any help at all, i had a situation last year where i had some really bad feelings going on between myself and a colleague, its a long old story, so i shall spare you the details, but suffice to say, i felt the working relationship had got to a point of no return and didnt think there was ever going to be a way to work together civilly ever again..... but we do and over time the feelings have subsided and we seem to have managed to put any animosity behind us hopefully, it'll be the same for you and they'll get over whatever grudges they may hold, i am sure they will find something else to occupy their whinging soon enough anyway office politics suck and can really make life miserable sometimes, dont let the buggers get you down, they sooooo aint worth it
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Post by boo on Sept 30, 2011 18:36:16 GMT
ps. dont you find that its often the sugar coating that can be the cause of the issues, because then theres the problem of skirting around what really needs to be said and can drag a situation out for much longer than needs be in my book, theres a difference between saying what needs to be said respectfully and actual sugar coating and there is much less room for mis-understandings and bad feelings with respectful honesty but these things quite often seem to be about saying one thing and meaning another and then wondering why everybody is at cross purposes
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Post by Mouse on Oct 2, 2011 17:16:48 GMT
I feel for you Mizmog. Not much fun finding you can't do right for apparently doing wrong, as I think the old expression used to go. In our place you can always spot the flavour of the month. As I think I have said before, there is some serious creeping going on. Mostly I just watch with amusement but sometimes I get so titted off, I nearly say something. But then I mostly manage to keep my mouth closed - which is a good thing as if I am wound up I find it difficult to be diplomatic.
Also agree that sugar-coating the pill can lead to further misunderstanding. At least if you are straightforward and respectful everyone understands your message, even if they don't particularly like it.
Also re colleagues being off with you. Another way of dealing with things, if the passage of time doesn't see an easing of the situation, is to ask in as neutral a tone as you can muster, 'have I done something to offend you?' They either have to say 'yes' and explain what their gripe is.. or say' No' and look pathetic if they keep on with the aggro/attitude.
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Post by mizmog on Oct 4, 2011 6:44:37 GMT
Thank u all so much for ur responses, it has really given me a boost!!
Things hv settled down slightly now, although it's very tense and I am being treated with kid gloves by the big boss.... She is over explaining things, even so far as splitting excel sheets for me! Lol still, better that than her not knowing I suppose!
Got assertiveness training today... Lol
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Post by Mouse on Oct 4, 2011 17:55:32 GMT
I had assertiveness training when I worked for an estate agents - made me realise how I swung between the extremes from floorcloth to aggressive!
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Post by mizmog on Oct 5, 2011 11:46:20 GMT
Mmmm assertiveness training scenario... Me big boss, hired with big wage to go in and clean out so to speak... So I picked my words, was very nice about it and guess what... Was told I was too soft and not up front enough!!!! I completely give up! Wasn't given any training at all just taught how to sack someone! Can't figure out what is going on to be honest... Just keeping my head down now cos I definitely can't please 'em!
Bit of an after thought, do u think their just trying to see how confused I get???
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kreate
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Post by kreate on Oct 5, 2011 16:03:18 GMT
Good Luck !
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 5, 2011 22:00:09 GMT
Nope. No such problem. I lasted 1 day at work.
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Post by snickerz on Oct 9, 2011 5:27:15 GMT
www.tuc.org.uk/equality/index.cfm?mins=103&minors=24&majorsubjectID=6 download the pdf which is the first one then on page 32-33 it clearly states that adhd and asd are covered by the equality act and also gives employers guidence on employees with the above, this is the only place that ive come across which clearly states that adhd is covered by the equality act
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Post by snickerz on Oct 9, 2011 5:30:09 GMT
Neurodiversity Workers with a wide range of conditions grouped under the title of neurodiversity (ND) – such as dyslexia, dyspraxia and attention deficit hyperactivity disorder (ADHD) – face a number of barriers in most workplaces. The starting point for representatives is to know that ND people are covered by the disability discrimination provisions of the Equality Act, and that employers have the same duty of reasonable adjustment for ND workers as for any other disabled person.
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Post by mizmog on Oct 13, 2011 17:38:46 GMT
Thank you Snickerz!
I will again, praise my company for being very accommodating with my little bits of quirkiness but alas, it hasn't solved the problem... As previously, what is now my ex-line Manager hasn't taken very kindly to the whole situation and has tried several things to bring down my reputation with work from flagging apparent 'bad calls' that were recorded and proven not to be, to stealing other peoples accounts (hers to be precise, and again proven incorrect) so has resorted to playground tactics of whispering and 'getting people in her gang'! It would make me laugh if it were not so tragic!
Anyway, today I decided to take her appalling attitude to the boss but very politely and pointed out that I don't want to approach her as I would not want to make the situation any worse in the team - unfortunately, it resulted in her being put straight in no uncertain terms and invoking a rather nasty working environment for the rest of the day!
I dont normally run to Management if personalities clash, but I am so fed up with being the target of her bullying - she even sat punching her fist into her hand behind her screen so no one could see her but me! I know thats plain threatening behavior, but all I could think was 'if only I hadnt of taken my meds today'!!
I am finding it so hard to believe that an apparently 'normal' grown professional woman can act like that! all because i wouldn't move my desk and was honest to people!
Please tell me that she is an odd one and not the norm for NT people? I haven't ever noticed people acting like this before, I was always just assuming that I was wrong all the time and perhaps just convinced myself that behavior like that was in my head - now, after taking the meds, I am not so sure it was in my head, now I am starting to see this everywhere - and we're the ones with the problem??? I actually think that the most level headed people are the ones with ADHD/Aspie simply because they see/say it like it is and dont spend their lives purposely making others miserable (I said purposely lol)
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Post by kakema on Oct 13, 2011 23:31:54 GMT
She's barking. NT people are fine.
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Post by mizmog on Oct 14, 2011 9:26:33 GMT
ha ha ha Thanks Shiny - I dont have a hope against this one then!
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