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Post by danherts on Oct 21, 2013 11:56:00 GMT
Thanks Jan.
Giving up smoking is a regular occurence for me since I 'officially' gave up about two years ago. I don't smoke when the kids are about and give up regularly for anywhere between a day and three months, I rarely go a couple of weeks without having another crack at it. I'm not a casual smoker either and have been smoking since I was 12 so it's a bit of a crap situation as I spend so much time in withdrawl.
I've read the little Allen Carr books about five times over the last ten years and his big book. They're good but I think they've got to work first time. I've tried patches which work well until I stop using them and then I'm back to square one.
The work thing. I ended up in a meeting with two managers, having the same argument over and over again before I pointed out the conversation was pointless. My line manager pulled me out as he said I was getting irate and offered a compromise I wasn't happy with then told me to go and think about it. I came up with my own compromise which was to have my views on the matter appended at the end of my written warning.
This was later watered down with their version of my objection going to be put on the warning instead of something I'd written. I couldn't be bothered anymore and just said do that then but I've still not been presented with the bit of paper so it all might kick of again if I don't like the look of it. Doesn't really matter anyway I suppose but it's just a matter of principle.
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Post by danherts on Oct 21, 2013 12:09:07 GMT
Went yesterday on 54mg without smoking. Still crap. Moody as he'll although more focused than the last few days.
I got pain on the left side of my chest, my armpit and hand. I've seen differing views on this with some saying it's just a side effect and others saying it's a sign of an underlying heart condition and you're going to die. The psych did say to get an ECG at A&E if it happened but I can't see myself doing that. I think I'm going to give up on the 54 anyway and drop back down. Don't really want to bring it up in case they err on the safe side and say I can't have stimulants.
I'll probably have a few days off it to see if the 36 is actually doing anything on its own that I'm not noticing before either asking to try 45mg, the 36 with a Ritalin IR booster or something else altogether.
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Post by JJ on Oct 21, 2013 22:04:45 GMT
Hi dan Sorry you're not getting on well at the moment I know it's just me, but I couldn't work out what made the meds more effective for you - smoking or not smoking? Also wasn't sure why you went up to 54 in first place? Nicotine definitely affects adhd symptoms (and mood in my case - which I've seen studies confirming as well) - nicotine is beneficial for adhd symptoms. When I gave up smoking my adhd went out of all control - contrarymary said her adhd went much worse too. I used nicotine patches instead of cigarettes for 10 months - and have actually just realised as a result of writing to you, that my current problems with my meds either being too strong or not working - and not being able to find a balance, is probably due to my having stopped nicotine patches after all this time.... Having had a week or so with practically no medication, I've been able to take my proper dose today and it's worked - and the difference between no medication and medication is HUGE - more than I'd appreciated. So maybe you should have a couple of days off and then start again to see what 36 is or isn't doing. One thing though, with what I already knew about nicotine's effects on adhd and my personal revelation in the course of typing, I would pick a stance - smoking or not smoking - and stay with that for a while - at least til you get yourself all established and settled on a dose and are in a position to know it works and to be able to monitor the change when you stop or start smoking again. Tho, if you've been on and off for a couple of years, maybe you should get yourself some patches and use them consistently rather than the up and down of smoking then abstaining... Easier said than done I know Xx
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Post by danherts on Nov 7, 2013 0:27:19 GMT
Hi JJ,
Sorry bit of a late reply this one. It was the smoking that's made Concerta more effective for me, I really noticed no effects whatsoever for the duration of giving up smoking where the results had been positive before. I would love to be able to pick a stance of smoking or not smoking but I can't smoke at home so if I do smoke it's sporadic, as for choosing not smoking, I try to do that every other day. The Concerta however has definitely made me more of a confirmed smoker and I've smoked a lot more, for longer periods for the time that I've been on it than in the previous few years.
I actually ended up buying some snuff, I've seen it behind the counter in a local off license for a while and have been intrigued by it. It's not as damaging as smoking and I can sneak off and take a bit whenever without having to go outside and take ten minutes. I've read that you can achieve a much higher blood/nicotine concentration with it than with smoking as well. Best of all, it isn't taxed and the £1.70 I've spent on it has lasted me about a week. (This is not an advert for nicotine addiction, nicotine addiction is a pain in the arse!)
After the last update I gave up on the 54mg and dropped back down to 36. Annoyingly the negatives from the 54mg dose seemed to persist at 36 when they weren't there previously and I felt a bit of anxiety creeping in so I came off it altogether for three days. The next two days on 36 were great and really productive although I forgot to eat but after that it started to slip off again and I felt like I needed to stop. It was still helping, but nowhere near as well and again anxiety was creeping in. I had a really shit day after a neighbour I'd had a run in with reported that I hadn't taxed my car since September (forgot!) and they clamped it out outside my house with a fuck off day-glo red 'NO TAX' sticker on it. That cost me a load of money just before a Christmas and I felt the most depressed I've felt in ages, and I mean years. I have a feeling the depth of that depression had something to do with the Concerta. I later went to a Fireworks display and had a horrible feeling of apprehension and foreboding.
So me and Concerta (but not necessarily Methylphenidate) are done. It wasn't a bad experience overall by any stretch of the imagination, so I hope nobody is put off. When it works I can get amazing things done which is then compounded by the stress relief from not having so many tasks hanging over my head, however motivation is not part of the package and I had to find that myself, but if I did I could stay at it. I do wonder how this stuff works for impulsivity. Around people I know or after a couple of drinks I can often offend over and over again by saying the first thing that comes into my head and often seem to say things (even if I don't agree with them) just to piss people off. I've learnt to stay quiet in situations where this trait could mess up my life, like work. Concerta said bollocks to that and I've seen a few people shaking their heads at things I've said. I'd be interested to hear others experience with that.
So I had an appointment with the Psych who asked if I wanted to try something else. I said yes and she agreed and I waited patiently for my prescription for Dexamfetamine. I was a bit surprised and disappointed when it was for Atomoxetine . I've read some scary stuff about it but I agreed to give it a go so I start tomorrow on 40mg. The doc had to look at a book to get the dosage and said it won't effect sleep which is contrary to about 90% of the accounts I've read so I'm a bit concerned she isn't too familiar with it. I'm quite apprehensive about taking it, I really don't want to be fatigued for a month. I still need to be able to function whilst I'm finding out what drug is going to help me.
We discussed what might happen if that didn't work and I mentioned I would be happy to go on Ritalin to take as and when required to combat the tolerance if all else fails, I got the impression after that the next appointment would be my last before handing over prescribing to my GP with no mention of Dexamfetamine, don't know why there is a reluctance to consider it when it's soooo much cheaper than Strattera, I actually feel quite guilty about how much it will cost the NHS if it works for me. A months supply of Ritalin or DA would cost the NHS about £15, Strattera is about £120. I'm reluctant to bring up Dexamfetamine though for fear of looking like a drug seeker.
Nothing on the atomoxetine insert about alcohol. Any experiences? Can I assume no problem there then?
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Post by meepmeep on Nov 7, 2013 9:40:20 GMT
E-cig is a good alternative to combustion smoking. Lovely flavours, cheaper and able to use it at home as its vapor and disperses quickly.
Check it out yo.
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Post by danherts on Nov 7, 2013 11:03:53 GMT
Thanks meep. I tried them and I was on it CONSTANTLY and never really felt satisfied. I used the disposable jobbie and it was almost as expensive as smoking.
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Post by meepmeep on Nov 7, 2013 21:38:58 GMT
Ego-ce4 or similar ftw. Disposable is nonsense imo.
With ecig you buy the juice at the nicotine strenght you want.
Currently rocking Cola flavour 11mg/ml.
Sweet, cola-ey and satisfys my nicotine craving.
Kit cost me 16 quid with a cartomiser, charger and 10ml juice of my choice.
Running costs: £4 cartomiser replacement every two weeks. Juice - I go through around 1ml-1.4ml a day, each 10ml costs around £4, so lasts a week lets say.
That's £24 a month. I was going through a 10 box a day previously, anywhere from £4.65-£5 a day!
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Post by petra on Nov 8, 2013 0:57:11 GMT
Agreed - disposable ones are rubbish and do cost about the same as smoking.
Ecigs are the only thing that has got me off cigarettes - because technically I'm still smoking - but without all the dangerous chemicals.
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Post by meepmeep on Nov 8, 2013 12:21:43 GMT
Petra you're vaping, no combustion Although Nicotine isn't kind on the body. I hope to kick it soon. Methylphenidate, nicotine, caffeine. ..too many stimulants for my liking.
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Post by contrarymary on Nov 8, 2013 12:50:49 GMT
nicotine addiction is a bugger to stop, not least because it has an unbelievably massive impact on adhd symptoms...
stopping smoking had such a catastrophic impact on my coping strategies that i did months of research and ended up "discovering" adhd and this forum - there's a bit of discussion on nicotine, smoking and adhd in my intro thread from august..
i'm not saying don't stop - Do!! stopping smoking has a simply amazing impact on physical and mental health, lowering stress levels and increasing self-confidence and all sorts. i think i'm saying be aware of the possibility of a big impact on adhd symptoms and have strategies up your sleeve or support in place to sort out strategies, otherwise it's very very hard...
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Post by petra on Nov 9, 2013 15:26:50 GMT
Petra you're vaping, no combustion Noooo! I smoke, I don't vape. Vaping sounds like something druggie vampires do!
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Post by danherts on Nov 9, 2013 19:06:49 GMT
Thanks for the info. I didn't realise the disposable l ones were any different to the refillables. I'm smoking again at the moment but hope to move over to the snuff exclusively with the ultimate aim still being to give up nicotine completely. I might give the e-cigs another go if this plan doesn't work.
I'm on day 3 of the Strattera now. It's a really weird drug. The first day everything slowed right down, it was so strange. My continuous inner monologue was slow and singular rather than fast, erratic and constantly switching subjects. A couple of times it was though time actually stood still for a few seconds and I found I had no thought in my head and wasn't moving. Driving I was really slow and in no rush, doing things with my hands I found I looked at my hands and movements were very slow and measured.
A lot of the Strattera success stories seem to site similar experience as the benefit of the drug, but I didn't really like it. When I raised concerns at the last appt with the psych about side effects she did say it might not be well received because users might not like the perceived change and compared it to someone that's bipolar missing the mania and not thinking of the benefit of eradicating the lows.
If that is how Strattera is supposed to work I think it might be too much of a sacrifice. I like the products of the flurry of discussion I have with myself in my head, I felt a bit stunted and uninvigorated without it. I want my social, organisational and memory problems to go away, but I don't want to feel like a zombie in the process. I wonder if that slow, measured thought process is what life feels like with a neuro-typical brain.
But anyway, early days and that experience has gone away now so perhaps that isn't supposed to be how Strattera effects me.
Day two I felt nothing and today my concentration is poor and I'm making a few mistakes. I'm a bit withdrawn, paranoid and a little depressed.
The weirdest thing about Strattera is the sexual side effects which can only be described as majorly fucked up. I won't go into detail but if they persist I think that's a deal breaker.
I'll stick with it for now but I'm going to be pissed off if I feel like this for five weeks for nothing.
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Post by Kathymel on Nov 9, 2013 19:51:42 GMT
That's really interesting. If my son doesn't get anything from the MPH, his pediatrician is going to try him on Strattera.
Keep us posted.
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Post by danherts on Nov 9, 2013 20:42:56 GMT
Will do Kathy. I've read that Strattera can cause growth issues in children so it may be worth looking into that so that you can make an informed decision should the MPH not work.
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Post by Kathymel on Nov 9, 2013 20:44:11 GMT
He's 14 and as tall as his dad so no worries about that, but thanks for telling me. x
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Post by meepmeep on Nov 9, 2013 22:32:39 GMT
Petra you're vaping, no combustion Noooo! I smoke, I don't vape. Vaping sounds like something druggie vampires do! Ahh, that would probably explain why I stand on top of my roof wearing a tin foil hat smoking crack cocaine whilst vaping my e-cig and drinking blood. Dan, nice to hear you've another avenue, as you probably know already Strattera can take a few weeks before you start feeling the positives, so hopefully this will work out for you
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Post by danherts on Nov 14, 2013 0:05:42 GMT
Quick update: Day 6 of Strattera and I haven't really noticed anything for the past few days, I'm wondering if it's changing me in ways I can't perceive. I don't quite feel myself.
Don't feel particularly focussed, I've got a few things done but then I haven't touched the housework. No hyperfocus for the first time in a while which is good for not taking up time but no good if I don't do anything with that time, feel a little lost without a fleeting obsession. As I put in another thread I went into work when I had the night off so it can't be working too well. Still got the freaky side effects downstairs but not as bad.
Up to 80mg tomorrow.
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Post by meepmeep on Nov 14, 2013 11:23:57 GMT
Yeah I read it can take a good few weeks before you start feeling the positives. Hang in there buddy.
Concerta is working well for me but its certainly no miracle medicine for me. ..there's a bunch of shit that still needs addressing.
As my Psych said the medicine is only a tool to help we have to somehow work with ot and try to change our behaviour.
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Post by tesss on Nov 14, 2013 12:27:19 GMT
Hang on there I found extremely difficult to get use to meds, but they work and will work finally. They are tools and they change perception of the world around you, which for me is still not comfortable. But don't give up
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Post by danherts on Nov 17, 2013 22:54:41 GMT
Thanks for the words of encouragement guys.
I've been on 80mg for four days now. I had a few beers yesterday and felt pretty crap this morning although I don't feel I drank enough to warrant it.
I had a bit of shortness of breath and then throughout the day I got a pain in my shoulder that got worse to the point where I was almost unable to raise my hand above my shoulder. I've got a bit of a shake on too and have to hold my tea with two hands in case anyone notices. Both side effects reported by other users. Still getting tingly feeling like goosebumps in my head that peak about an hour after taking the pills and continue to a lesser extent throughout the day. Not entirely unpleasant.
Seems in general I'm not getting as bad a range of side effects as some people. Thankfully no nausea, headaches or unusual tiredness.
Feeling like it's not doing anything, and realising I don't really know what it's supposed to do I done a bit of reading and seen a lot of reports of it working well for impulsiveness and mood and I suppose I can see that in myself.
I'm not interrupting people as much or saying inappropriate things. But that only really bothers other people and not me! Mood I suppose seems a bit flatter, still get annoyed but maybe not as much and perhaps not as moany as usual.
The lack of a return to baseline at the end of the day makes it harder to assess how and how well the medication is working. At the moment the above traits it seems to be affecting are not the ones that bother me most and looking back I'm missing the focus, clear thinking and resultant self confidence of the Methylphenidate.
Sexual side effects diminished but still there. Ironically, seen an advert on TV for a website about treatment of male sexual dysfunction. Sponsored by El Lilly, the very company that have brought these delightful symptoms to me for the first time.
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Post by danherts on Nov 20, 2013 8:36:51 GMT
Day 63 of being medicated and now two weeks on Strattera.
Still no eureka feeling that makes me feel like I want to stay on this medication. Still definitely more controlled and perhaps chilled but concentration is as bad as ever.
I realised yesterday that I was losing track of thoughts mid way through and not being able to get them back. Looking back, I can't remember this happening on the MPH at all. I spent about two minutes trying to remember the first name of somebody I've worked with for about two years.
The shoulder pain has expanded and colonised my shoulder blade, neck and what feels like the bottom corner of my brain. The pain isn't as severe though. Can't find much info on what painkillers it's okay to take with Strattera. Want to avoid Paracetemol because the Strattera is supposed to be hard on the liver as well.
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Post by Kathymel on Nov 20, 2013 8:56:15 GMT
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Post by meepmeep on Nov 21, 2013 8:50:57 GMT
Go for an ECG Dan just rule that out of the equation.
How is your sleep? I've found on days with shit sleep ADHD seems amplified and meds dont seem as effective.
Im a little surprised they didn't try another methylphenidate type med before handing out Strattera...
Its a long time but try the Strat for 4-6 weeks before binning it.
Also you may want to look into Modafinil.
I tried some years ago...a mate gave me some after raving about how awesome it is and how it makes him hyper focused. Sadly done nothing but give me slight mind fog.
He did tell me im broken at that point as his circle had good results.
With that said I do wonder what a higher dose would of done.
So you still got other methylphenidate meds and Modafinil at your disposal should Strattera fail you.
Hell I read bupurion (sp?) can help too.
Keep on trucking big man.
Peace.
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Post by danherts on Nov 25, 2013 23:50:33 GMT
Thanks for the info Kathy and meep, much appreciated.
A quick update: My time with Strattera has come to an end, I had a couple of nose bleeds, had my blood pressure checked and it was something like 163/98. Doc says come off it and I'm glad in a way, but then it's also been a waste of time and I'll never know if it would of ended up helping in the end although I suspect not. Been off it four days now and feel better without it.
Last psych appt, the ADHD SPECIALIST replies to 'shall I book an appt with reception now?' with 'you can do it later'. Of course I leave it over two weeks before thinking about booking the next appt and now I won't be going back in until the new year.
So a bit of a medication break is on the cards although I have some Concerta left that I'll use up. Agreed that I'm going on Dex next over the phone and for some reason got a good feeling about it.
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Post by meepmeep on Nov 26, 2013 8:51:28 GMT
Dex seems to get a lot of good noise esp in the US...What's your normal bp?
That's quiet a spike...ive not measured bp since starting Concerta but keep an eye on heart rate...my resting rate increased by about 5bpm so im working hard in the gym to negate that. Ive already bought my top end down massively from 190-ish during strenuous exercise to approx 150-160!
May be joining a gym will help you in the long run.
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Post by danherts on Nov 26, 2013 13:02:39 GMT
No idea what my normal blood pressure is but after a two months on Concerta it never went over 140/90.
My heart rate has always been higher than average even when I was super fit so it isn't a concern for me.
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Post by danherts on Dec 4, 2013 18:50:05 GMT
After another couple of weeks off the fags I succumbed to a packet of rollies at the offie so the snuff isn't cutting it. I've taken your advice meep and spent two days looking into e-cigs before buying the one I found in the first ten minutes.
Now waiting for my evod to come in the post from Denmark. Hopefully it'll be enough to let me quit, and I won't have to forgo the nicotine.
Still can't get my head around the whole e-cigs thing and what bits do what. Way more technical than I imagined. Is there anywhere you can get the juice on the high street or is it all over the Internet?
As for the meds, made the appointment without realising I won't be here. So now waiting until the end of Jan for my dex.
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Post by meepmeep on Dec 7, 2013 19:17:17 GMT
It's all over the internet mate. www.simplyeliquid.co.uk/ is the last place I used. I have to admit, since I started Concerta, as the dose increased so did my nicotine craving. WTF. Back to smoking >.< It's worse on work days, I'm irritated where I am, so it's nice to up and leave for a smoke, and watch the world go by...... Dunno what to do, nicotine patches/e-cig will help with nicotine cravings, but I think it's more smoking gives me something to do to kill time/gets me out of what I'm doing for the interim/a nice break. Ugh, smoking FTL.
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Post by JJ on Dec 7, 2013 20:16:58 GMT
meepmeep, I've looked into mph increasing cravings for nicotine and found quite a few papers and articles referencing this as a known effect. I can't remember much about it this second, but it's got something to do with alpha adrenergic receptors I think.... I'll post a link if I come across anything, suffice to say, it's real and explainable Edit: here's a link www.europeanneuropsychopharmacology.com/article/S0924-977X(12)00156-3/abstract
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Post by meepmeep on Dec 7, 2013 22:47:08 GMT
Thanks jj, helpful as ever
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