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Post by petra on Jun 19, 2014 1:04:00 GMT
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Post by contrarymary on Jun 19, 2014 6:45:44 GMT
here you go petratable of asperger's traits in womeni see what you mean - it's astonishing how much i can relate to. i wonder if it's just us, is there a lot of overlap with adhd, or something else? thank you for the link
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Post by scatterbrain on Jun 19, 2014 10:35:32 GMT
Thanks for the link, I'm not familiar with asperger's characteristics but can say "YES" to 38 out of 45! Hmmmmm? ?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 19, 2014 11:00:49 GMT
I'm not particularly well up on Aspies - but I know that diagnosis is predominantly in males. I had a quick look around and read this linkIs there a good suggestion that the expression of symptoms is gender specific or is there a real difference in rates? As I meander around in the ND community I can't say I notice female Aspies - most of the suggested symptoms seem to be common with ADHD. Which leads onto one of my pet ideas... The more I look at Aspergers the more I think it's ADHD - or ADHD is on the autistic spectrum with the accompanying gender bias according to the different expression of symptoms. If Aspies is actually an extension of the ADHD spectrum then hyperactivity is at the other end morphing gently through combined and inattentive to Aspies.
Classic expressions of hyperactive ADHD and Aspergers are found predominantly in males - there is something in the gender differences that make the expression more obvious/suppressed (and thus the diagnosis bias). Perhaps the distribution curve is flatter in males, with consequent extra representation at either end of the ADHD/Aspergers spectrum.
At the moment I'm convinced that ADHD is not gender specific - adding Aspergers to the spectrum would do nothing to change my opinion (which would make the core symptom of ADHD 'inattention' [executive function] rather than the more easily observed hyperactivity).
Qualifier - it's only an idea and I could be way off beam.
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Post by petra on Jun 19, 2014 20:12:44 GMT
I wonder how many woman on here have a diagnosis of ADHD and aspergers?
At my assessment the psychiatrist said that I had Aspergers but it's not actually written on my diagnosis sheet thing.
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Post by petra on Jun 19, 2014 20:34:54 GMT
Some differences between As and add. linkMy very first link!! I can't tell you how happy this has just made me! I think I'm cured of everything!
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Post by petra on Jun 19, 2014 20:38:20 GMT
'The major distinction between AS and ADD is that in AS there is a marked impairment to initiate and sustain connection with others.'
This is and always has been a huge issue for me.
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Post by fuzzywuzzy on Jun 19, 2014 21:48:29 GMT
Which leads onto one of my pet ideas... The more I look at Aspergers the more I think it's ADHD - or ADHD is on the autistic spectrumMy pet idea is sort of the other way around.....I think autism is on the ADHD spectrum.....as, I think most brain disorders are
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Post by fuzzywuzzy on Jun 19, 2014 22:31:20 GMT
At my assessment the psychiatrist said that I had Aspergers but it's not actually written on my diagnosis sheet thing. petra.....I'm not sure it's humanly possible to have that many diagnoses!
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Post by petra on Jun 19, 2014 22:43:09 GMT
Do you think I'd get into the Guinness book of records? Maybe that's my destiny and will be my great achievement in life! Or...even better...a new label will come about based on me!! ..chronic Petra disorder..
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Post by greyblanket on Jun 20, 2014 7:22:33 GMT
There was a segment on BBC radio 4, All in the Mind, about how well girls hide symptoms of autism. You can download it as a podcast, or listen on iplayer. www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b046kyc1
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Post by Deleted on Jun 20, 2014 10:45:40 GMT
I wonder how many woman on here have a diagnosis of ADHD and aspergers? At my assessment the psychiatrist said that I had Aspergers but it's not actually written on my diagnosis sheet thing. This is quite common - unless the Aspergers is severe (usually requiring care worker support) they don't do much for you whereas ADHD can have meds thrown at it. If you're diagnosed with ADHD then you'll have some kind of psychiatric support anyway, which is about as good a treatment for minor Aspergers gets and the psychs know this. I think Fuzzy mentioned other disorders being related to the ADHD group. There are many disorders with shared symptoms (eg dyslexia, dyspraxia, BPD, bipolar, fibromyalgia) some of which might be related and some of which probably aren't. I could go on about this (I'd love to - Who? Me? Opinion?) but it'd be hijacking the thread.
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Post by contrarymary on Jun 23, 2014 9:17:39 GMT
interestingly i was doing some research on this before i went on holiday. it would seem that most of the articles available online are written by people who have an expertise or insight in one condition and point out the differences from that perspective. i'm going to try and collect some of the best/most helpful, starting with this small-scale study reviewing the incidence of asperger's in people diagnosed with adhd as adults. it showed a much higher incidence of Asperger's in their adult adhd patients (15%) than in the general population (0.06%)
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Post by Deleted on Jun 23, 2014 10:12:34 GMT
interestingly i was doing some research on this before i went on holiday. it would seem that most of the articles available online are written by people who have an expertise or insight in one condition and point out the differences from that perspective. I always suspect that the attitude is 'I know this, have the piece of paper on the wall and everything. Validate what I do (and build up my business empire)'.
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Post by blaze on Jun 29, 2014 14:40:42 GMT
Ofcourse asd and adhd are related, as they are w all developmental disorders, dandas website had a great diagram of many developmental disorders interlink, but sadly its mostly been down since mary colleys death. From what i remember ed pyschs, psychiatrists, etc.say that most of us who qualify for one developmental disorder have two or three atleast. Asd isnt on an adhd spectrum or adhd on the asd spectrum but rather both are interlinked in more of a prisam of all developmental disorders
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Post by astraka on Jul 1, 2014 22:55:37 GMT
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Post by petra on Jul 2, 2014 1:08:46 GMT
This might sound a really silly question, but how is it determined whether something is a neurodevelopmental issue, a brain chemical issue or a behavioural/ self discipline issue?
I'm asking really because even with the bits I do now know about adhd and aspergers, I find it really difficult when looking at my life to not blame myself for how I am. And the more I seem to have learnt, the less I seem to be motivated to 'try harder'. 10 years ago I functioned, though far from well, but nevertheless at a much higher level than I do now. And whilst my mood is light years better than then, I don't seem to be improving. I'm not entirely sure I'm not learning learned helplessness.
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Post by astraka on Jul 2, 2014 7:01:11 GMT
My experience is that diagnosis is usually determined by a clinician based on their experience. The more you don't fit into their idea of a diagnosis or respond to their treatment the more labels they give you. I've found that, while professional treatment can be essential at times, often the best treatment is things you can do for yourself. Step away from the labels and tackle one thing about yourself that you want to change.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 2, 2014 9:15:06 GMT
This might sound a really silly question, but how is it determined whether something is a neurodevelopmental issue, a brain chemical issue or a behavioural/ self discipline issue? I'm asking really because even with the bits I do now know about adhd and aspergers, I find it really difficult when looking at my life to not blame myself for how I am. And the more I seem to have learnt, the less I seem to be motivated to 'try harder'. 10 years ago I functioned, though far from well, but nevertheless at a much higher level than I do now. And whilst my mood is light years better than then, I don't seem to be improving. I'm not entirely sure I'm not learning learned helplessness. Take ADHD as an example. ADHD is a neurological disorder but is treated by psychiatry because they're the behaviour people and neurologists are more like mechanics - the two disciplines are very different. ADHD appears to be part chemical and part structural in nature but the result is behaviours and we try to sort those out with chemicals and learning (psychotherapy). Behaviours are problematic - some are built in and some are learned and some are a bit of both (lot's of argument in the psychology world over that). There are two memory banks in your brain. One is short term and is chemical in nature. That one is goosed in ADHDers. The long term memory is physical and constructed from connected nerve fibres. In ADHD minds those connections are slightly different (in routing, not how they do it) because we are trying to work around our thinking issues. This way your thinking is actually 'concreted in' - it has to be deconstructed (it's thirteen times harder to unlearn something than to learn it - so don't learn badly!) for you to forget what you've learned so your lifetime experiences are physically there and the passage of time means what you've learned is piling up. So as you get older the untreated mind becomes steadily worse. Learning about ADHD is only recommended for those who are going to 'treat' it (by meds and/or psychotherapy - which you can do yourself to some extent) because otherwise you'll just be pinpointing the crappy bits out to someone, which is depressing. That depression is learned (concreted in) and the cycle goes round and round. So you do learn both virtuous and vicious circles - positive thinking (psychotherapy) rewards itself - think about how football teams have winning streaks, they learn to be positive and vice versa.
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Post by cheekybuddha on Jul 2, 2014 11:17:17 GMT
Planetdave I found that such a visual description of the way the mind works and is programmed. I am seeing this really clear image of positive thoughts circuiting the brain again and again and reprogramming it. The concept of treating my brain as an detached entity has become clear to me! Everyday we choose..to feed the sad, bad wolf or the powerful good wolf , if you know the saying I am sure I have some aspergers traits that involve sensations and sensory load mainly. Such as with busy places, noises, people , mess all throws me right off balance and I need lots of alone time to recover from everything! I do resonate with lots of the initial post from our lovely Petra
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Post by petra on Jul 2, 2014 12:53:23 GMT
@planetdave - that makes so much sense to me too. I am starting to be able to see how and why my depression has so greatly improved, whilst my ability to get anything done has, particularly over the last 2 years so greatly decreased. Am feeling quite liberated just at the moment!! And also, just thinking about it, how the many years of 'desperately trying harder/ trying different' in my case has actually ultimately made me worse and not better....the harder you try and receive bad feedback one way or another, the more your sub- conscious is learning that trying just doesn't work. Little wonder the 'try harder' part of me appears to have disappeared! And @cheekybuddha - lovely to see you back - I hope things are ok with you xx
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Post by fuzzywuzzy on Jul 2, 2014 14:57:08 GMT
petra.... senior member!!! Woo hoo! As JJ would say....about bloody time!
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Post by petra on Jul 2, 2014 16:24:19 GMT
petra.... senior member!!! Woo hoo! As JJ would say....about bloody time! Yes! But I've been here before. Twice in fact!!
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Post by fuzzywuzzy on Jul 2, 2014 18:55:51 GMT
Yes! But I've been here before. Twice in fact!! X
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Post by petra on Jul 7, 2014 14:35:42 GMT
I saw psych yesterday, and for the first time brought up about Aspergers in the light of above posts. She said she did think that I had aspergers when she listened to my mum talk about my childhood at assessment, but she doesn't think it now. She thinks all the problems I had as a child and with friendships are adhd, though not 100% sure. Her opinion is to treat the adhd, and then see what's left after that. She did say people with adhd struggle in life a lot -....that's for sure...
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Post by Deleted on Jul 7, 2014 17:29:20 GMT
Not much of a surprise there.
If you have Aspies then not having it diagnosed fits the profile we're discussing for the reasons posited.
It also doesn't seem to matter unless you want the badge for your collection - there's more benefit from having the ADHD treatment, which some reckon works better than anything else for Aspies, rather than treatment for Aspies which isn't much cop for ADHD.
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Post by twix on Jul 7, 2014 18:24:42 GMT
Pretty sure I have aspergers as well. No diagnosis but its clear. Annoyingly it seems more of a problem than the adhd at the moment. Assuming you can split the 2.
My husband and I have had a number of "conversations" recently about my very literal interprestations vs the way that ND people tell what to me are lies and yet expect interpretation of these.
For example, he was on the computer working. I asked if he minded if I put the TV on. He said no. I put the TV on. A later discussion reveals that he did mind but thought it polite not to say so. Apparently I was rude to ask if he minded because asking do you mind if isn't really a question in normal people land because its not permitted to refuse if someone says that.
I feel more like Sheldon (big bang theory) everyday.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 7, 2014 20:18:16 GMT
Pretty sure I have aspergers as well. No diagnosis but its clear. Annoyingly it seems more of a problem than the adhd at the moment. Assuming you can split the 2. My husband and I have had a number of "conversations" recently about my very literal interprestations vs the way that ND people tell what to me are lies and yet expect interpretation of these. For example, he was on the computer working. I asked if he minded if I put the TV on. He said no. I put the TV on. A later discussion reveals that he did mind but thought it polite not to say so. Apparently I was rude to ask if he minded because asking do you mind if isn't really a question in normal people land because its not permitted to refuse if someone says that. I feel more like Sheldon (big bang theory) everyday. If you can't speak your mind with your spouse ARGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH! BTW you're in my spot
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Post by twix on Jul 7, 2014 21:41:49 GMT
I know this is a very very autistic thing to say, but I do think its the so called normal people that are strange and we are the normal ones....
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Post by mypineappledream on Jul 16, 2014 20:09:52 GMT
here you go petratable of asperger's traits in womeni see what you mean - it's astonishing how much i can relate to. i wonder if it's just us, is there a lot of overlap with adhd, or something else? thank you for the link I was told I have both, and everything I read about it just makes it more and more clear to me. That's is just crazy.
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