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Post by marionk on Aug 7, 2016 10:13:57 GMT
So . . . ADHD is associated with disregulation of the Hypothalamic Pituitary Adrenal axis. A lot of my (not so clearly ADHD) problems can be explained by poor functioning of the HPS axis, but I don't see how/why ADHD is related to it, other than both seem to be related to something wrong with the hypothalamus or perhaps the hippocampus. Hypocretin/orexin seems important, definitely for sleep problems, not so clear how it is relevant to classic ADHD symptoms though. www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18678446I still like my 'super functioning brain hogging all the resources' theory, and can sort of see how that might affect other parts of the brain negatively, but why such specific parts so much more than the rest? Are they just the bits we (prehistorically) need the least? After all, I managed very well in a differently organised society, sure I still had to use my workarounds for insomnia, had a lousy memory for people (there was an awful lot of people out there ~ but probably in ages past, communities were small enough that I would have managed ok) but my general forgetfulness and lack of concentration very rarely had any impact on anything. Basically, I still can't figure out what if anything I might be able to do about my main ADHD symptoms, other than hope that improving other associated problems will release the necessary resources in my brain! Ahh! and that's the rub! I suspect that it's an evolutionary compromise, lost function in some parts in favour of greater connectivity in the rest. Maybe we just can't produce enough of something vital to everything, for it all to work.
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Post by marionk on Aug 7, 2016 10:33:18 GMT
Heh, I just remembered another ADHD related problem, that of poor perception of time. I wondered if the lack of daily rythm of orexin/hypocretin might be connected to inability to judge how much time has passed. So, into google goes 'hypocretin orexin perception of time' and up pops this. So not only is ADHD related to hypocretin imbalances, but time perception ADHD and insomnia are all connected by the prefrontal cortex?!? Damn that looks like heavy reading though.
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Post by marionk on Aug 7, 2016 11:58:09 GMT
OMG It looks like my low (but not critical) iron levels may also have been (and still be, if they've gone back to their usual level) due to ADHD. link
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Post by marionk on Aug 8, 2016 7:24:20 GMT
So, does anyone really know how mph works, or not?
A lot of places say it (and other stimulants) work by raising dopamine levels in the brain, but I suspect most if not all, are based on observed effects being attributed to dopamine rather than actual tests for dopamine.
Is there actually a test for dopamine in the brain?
Lots of places say there is no way to tell how much dop there is in the brain, they can only measure markers, so how can they know that dop is lacking in a particular area of the brain, e.g. in parkinson's
ok some sort of scan, but even they can only measure metabolic activity, so it still seems like it's deduced from related things.
mph does raise levels of DHEA.
Also there is another reward pathway than dopamine ~ hypocretin/orexin
and yes DHEA helps with sleep.
Actually it increases REM!!!
Maybe the buzz I got when increasing the dose for the first time was from raised dopamine, but the rest of the effects could all be more definitely attributed to DHEA
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Post by vagueandrandom on Aug 8, 2016 11:00:16 GMT
I know you like a good read marionk . . .have you read this from the British Association for psychopharmacology? linkFor those of us who like a short version:
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Post by marionk on Aug 29, 2016 6:27:19 GMT
gc7 I had been composing a detailed answer to your post but it's gone, so I'll just say, that article is actually about taking stuff in excess, not at RDA or similar to normal dietary intake levels. So many people when told that XXX helps prevent blah blah, think oooh it's good for me, I'll take loads, and go on to overdose chronically on it, when really all it means is that scientists have found that people that have XXX in their diet don't get blah blah as much as those that don't. The only media hype over food/health/nutrients that I have ever paid much attention to, is the one about nutrients being more effective when consumed in food form rather than isolated in supplements. I actually take that one a step further, and go for the least processed form of a foodstuff that is readily available, e.g. full cream milk and wholemeal bread and fresh rather than tinned.
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Post by marionk on Aug 29, 2016 6:52:04 GMT
Ok now, can I remeber what I came to this thread for? /me looks through the tabs on her browser window . . . oh yeah, I was looking up stuff about circadian rythms to see if anyone had found the link between ADHD and sleep problems; found an article called "Staying awake for dinner: hypothalamic integration of sleep, feeding, and circadian rhythms" which looks very interesting, but I can only find enough of it to realise that it would cost to get the full version, and anyway, it's VERY technical. Than I spotted this: Staying awake: top-down systems control of sleep. I've got the wretched capability for work assessment tomorrow, so I'm not managing to take in much more than the introduction, but it looks relatively readable. It's taken several reads before I 'got' that the first sentence is about artificial light making it possible to carry on working after dark. It was this :- that really caught my attention, and some mention of executive function Ooooh a painted lady just flew in! I hope it's not going to try and hibernate in here. :S
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Post by vagueandrandom on Aug 29, 2016 9:45:07 GMT
Good luck with the work capability assessment marionk.
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Post by marionk on Aug 29, 2016 15:22:30 GMT
Thanks It would be a nice miracle if I get through without going to appeal for a change, but I daresay they make it harder every time. I wouldn't be at all surprised if I have to go to tribunal this time, and whether a miracle happens or the worst, it will be a gut churning wait. In some ways I'm glad they didn't give me much notice of the interview. :S
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Post by marionk on Aug 29, 2016 19:04:11 GMT
hmm, just been reading the criteria for ESA, (I must be getting a bit better as this is the first time I've managed to look into them)
anyways, I'm looking at these quetions, and wondering how the hell did I score zero (both times, previously)?
They must have totally ignored everything I said.
So now I'm wondering how the heck can I stop them doing it again?
Also though, I seem to recall that I figured out as much at least once before, but when I suggested that was surely grounds for appeal, the advocate said no. I still don't understand why not.
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Post by marionk on Aug 30, 2016 13:08:19 GMT
Well, I was a bit of a mess, which was probably not a bad thing, in a perverse sort of way, and he did ask a couple of what I recognise as trippy-up questions, and the chap with me called intrusive, but he (the assessor) also didn't ask some of the questions that I expected him to ask.
I think I will take this as a good sign, but I will still be worrying until it's all settled again.
tbh I'm confused.
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Post by marionk on Sept 5, 2016 6:12:58 GMT
Even with medication, even just the thought of being suspended freaks me out, so I don't want to jinx it . . . but I think it'll be ok this time.
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Post by marionk on Oct 15, 2016 6:52:34 GMT
What is it about salt? I keep running into 'salt cravings' when I'm down google rabbit holes, something to do with adrenals iirc. The fact that salt has long been demonised, ( along with 'stimulants' and cigarettes) adds to my goofy sci-fi story plot, where the government/elite keeps the population stupid and under control simply by banning a few basic dietary elements. The fact that the parents are all bought into the myth means that each successive generation of the underclass is brought up without enough mental capacity to challenge anything the elite impose on them. - I've practically got the scenario sorted, just no story line at all! Back to salt, and the real world . . . First link out of the hat today: from pituitary.org/knowledge-base/disorders/adrenal-insuffieciency-addison-s-diseaseI have always had low bp, I thought that's a good thing though. Also, I thought the problem with eating too much table salt was that the excess sodium pushed out the more desirable potassium. Maybe it 'is' good, if low bp is your goal, and cutting down on salt is certainly supposed to be better for your heart . . . Hahaha, by pure coincidence I bump into Sjogren's syndrome again, so I have a go and finding out more about it, and there is a site for raising awareness, but the page with information about it . . . is only available to members! So much for raising awareness! Back to the first page out of the hat That's almost what I was looking for, it's in the 'symptoms' section, and a lot of the rest of the symptoms are ringing loud bells too! So low aldosterone, low salt, salt cravings? That's enough for now, insomnia is just about gone.
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Post by contrarymary on Oct 22, 2016 20:27:55 GMT
hi marionkI haven't been here for aeons - capacity used up by other stuff, and got out of the habit - but dropping by to say hi, and hope you are ok did you get an answer about the wca yet? xx
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Post by marionk on Oct 27, 2016 10:12:30 GMT
Hi there Not sure if I answered this on other thread (closing tabs atm) have a look on 'venting' for latest news
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Post by stresshead75 on Dec 23, 2016 19:09:57 GMT
That's one of the reasons I hate speaking on the phone. . .get flustered, then don't know what they're saying and get more confused. . . then get off the phone (or hang up) and don't know what was said. It can happen face to face too. I've had to make another appointment with my GP to ask them what they said in my last appointment. Glad it turned out OK in the end
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Post by marionk on Jan 22, 2017 11:13:52 GMT
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Post by marionk on Jan 30, 2017 14:19:52 GMT
About twenty years ago, I was prescribed cortisone cream for a persistent rash. The doctor also said something that stuck in my memory because it was so odd. She said something about it being caused by something internal, but didn't elaborate. I was a bit irritated by the fact that she prescribed something topical rather than investigating the underlying cause, but the cream did help so I left it at that. Years later and still years ago, I came across 'adrenal insufficiency' as an explanation of my persistent fatigue, and also my psoriasis, because the cortisone cream helped with it, so I figured that as cortisone is produced by the adrenal glands, that the rash improving with more, indicated that my adrenals weren't producing enough. My doctor of the time poopoohed adrenal insufficiency, and I got no further than some more cortisone cream for the rash. This last year, since realising ADHD is at the root of all my problems, I have looked into what ADHD is, and how and why it causes the problems that it does. Frequently I come across articles talking about it being all to do with the HPA axis, sleep disorders, too. Guess what the A in HPA stands for! (If you didn't know already. - adrenal) I felt vindicated, even smug. The vindication doesn't end there though! Looking for other ways of increasing dopamine, I look into how it's broken down, and the main enzyme responsible is monoamine oxidase. So I look to see if there are any medications for reducing it's production or it's activity, and then the penny drops. That's what MAOI's do. They inhibit the enzyme that is most responsible for breaking down neurotransmitters. Unfortunately it seems that it's every bit as scary to doctors as mph and dex are. And anyway, I have had no luck getting any doctors to prescribe anything off license anyway, so I go looking for natural MAOIs, that's when I found that the real effective part of cigarettes is actually an MOAI . . . I find a bunch that are actually available, quercitin, harmala, psoralen and a few others, but I've already tried quercitin/gingko, and it wasn't impressive, so I go looking to see if I can find a natural source for any of the ones that doctors prescribe. First one I look into is Selegiline, and well I never! it's also effective in treating psoriasis! And so is buproprion!! (although apparently not an MAOI) And along the way, I also found that, yes, MAOIs can help with ADHD. There may be others as well but that's enough for now, and they both look very promising, each for slightly different reasons. I've made an appointment with a GP, hoping to persuade him to either prescribe them off license for my ADHD, or directly for my psoriasis. As I'm only on mph still, there shouldn't be any kind of issue with interactions, and if the doc says there is, and that's the only reason for not prescribing it, well I'll just stop taking the mph.
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Post by marionk on Feb 4, 2017 12:00:01 GMT
Some time ago I deduced that I have high levels of the enzyme that breaks down caffeine, CYP1A2. Also some time ago, I found that acetylcholine is important for memory. Clearly there was a considerable interval between those two discoveries though, as I never thought to investigate what enzyme breaks down acetylcholine. lol never mind that for now, I just found a crazy connection nicotine increases CYP1a2 activity, so smoking and drinking coffee together, knocks out the caffeine and just leaves two doses of harmaline . . .kind of proves the point that it's the harmaline that's the effective part
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Post by marionk on Feb 20, 2017 12:20:42 GMT
High protein things (if anyone is interested in detailed recipe, just ask ) (Bread is always wholemeal) Microwave things: Egg custards Almondy porridge Mug cake (ground almonds instead of flour) Jacket potatoes with lots of cheese and b.beans.
Beans on toast, edit, peanut butter is better, b beans are only about 4% protein! Sardines on toast, Welsh rarebit Bacon sarnie made with a whole 125g pack of bacon, and still only two slices of bread. Fish sarnie made with a whole small tin of pilchards Mincemeat, bolognese style with a minimum of anything else, or on toast. Mincemeat and lentils with a minimum of rice Eggs and dates (plus minimum of rice) (This is the closest to plain eggs that I can eat them without loads of chips and tomato sauce. I also can't stand boiled eggs or scotch eggs would be a good one.) I'm sure there's more but that's all I can think of atm. Also want to try pancakes with lots of eggs, and oat flour instead of wheat flour.
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Post by marionk on Mar 21, 2017 5:57:48 GMT
Just bumped into this, down a google wormhole. Two things in one place, one about SSRIs and the other about a different 'population' giving markedly different results.
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Post by contrarymary on Mar 25, 2017 14:45:42 GMT
High protein things (if anyone is interested in detailed recipe, just ask ) (Bread is always wholemeal) Microwave things: Egg custards Almondy porridge Mug cake (ground almonds instead of flour) Jacket potatoes with lots of cheese and b.beans.
Beans on toast, edit, peanut butter is better, b beans are only about 4% protein! Sardines on toast, Welsh rarebit Bacon sarnie made with a whole 125g pack of bacon, and still only two slices of bread. Fish sarnie made with a whole small tin of pilchards Mincemeat, bolognese style with a minimum of anything else, or on toast. Mincemeat and lentils with a minimum of rice Eggs and dates (plus minimum of rice) (This is the closest to plain eggs that I can eat them without loads of chips and tomato sauce. I also can't stand boiled eggs or scotch eggs would be a good one.) I'm sure there's more but that's all I can think of atm. Also want to try pancakes with lots of eggs, and oat flour instead of wheat flour. was passing thru, in response to your post in my corner, and saw this. I've been doing high protein/low carb for a while now, and find i'm sharper - concentrate better, better memory, less bleurgh. one of my staples is coconut flour - used as a substitute in loads of things, often with lots of eggs - makes cakes etc really healthy in a low-carb/high protien sort of way. another is ground almonds - often called *almond flour* which does similar. back to hermitage xxx
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Post by marionk on Mar 31, 2017 7:04:21 GMT
Something's not adding up.
There's no denying that since I started to concentrate on eating high protein foods, I have been more energised and clearer headed, and it's definitely not placebo effect. But here's the odd thing. . .
When I looked up how much protein I was eating I realised I wasn't eating enough, my weight was fairly stable so obviously I didn't want to simply eat more of everything in order to get enough protein or I'd put on weight from eating too much, so I clearly needed to eat more higher protein food. So, I made sure that apart from fruit (for vit c) pretty much everything I ate was primarily something high in protein. So far so good; it really helps.
Lately though, to decide if a food is high enough in protein, I've been comparing it's protein content to it's calories. If it's got more than enough protein to get me over 65g without going over 2000calories, it's ok. (except it can't be really, read on . . )
More and more though, I've been spotting things that are surprisingly close to the break even point. The first was microwave pepperoni pizza, so, as others were below the break even, I figured it was the pepperoni that tipped the balance, and thought no more about it. But I gradually noticed more an more things that I thought of as low protein, are actually just above break point, so I decided to actively look up and work out how much protein was in the things that I considered low protein, like predominantly starchy foods like bread.
So . . . even bread (wholemeal) has an adequate amount of protein
So, coming back to this I realise it is way too verbose. I'll post this as is, and try and write it again, (and finish it off), more succinctly.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 31, 2017 11:36:33 GMT
Hi Marion I really struggle with meal prep / plan. Like yourself, I've noticed my body responds very positively to an Atkins style diet. Do you have any meal plans I could use? Thanks!
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Post by marionk on Apr 1, 2017 8:39:03 GMT
Hi @boost, sorry, no. I don't really do meals, except for special occasions, and even for a multi part main course I need help. I often blame my time abroad for only bothering with one course, as the tradition there was a main course with side dishes, and anything that might pass for a dessert back here was pretty much an after-thought a couple of hours later, but I'm coming to realise that it's just an excuse. I can barely manage to cook one thing a day, let alone multi-part meals. Hmm, I just had a look at an Atkins diet book and none of his meal plans, that I can find, have a dessert anyway! I have a few 'event triggered' mantras to try and make sure I eat/drink enough protein and coffee in a day, (e.g. hungry? - think protein) but that's about it, and I really need to work out a daily menu, to make my consumption of potentially significant main elements close to identical every day. At the moment, for instance, for breakfast I might have almondy porridge or microwave cake, but they each have potentially significant things in them that the other doesn't, so that alone could be why I e.g. have more energy that day, or even the next, but I can't work out what because too many are different each day. Oops, I'm waffling on for my own benefit now, sorry! :S I've tried keeping a diary to see if the differences in 'activity/sleepiness' correlated with anything in my diet (or activity levels), but I can't do it, so the alternative is to try and eat the same every day, and see if that stabilises things more. I need to have approximately the same amount of oats, butter, eggs, almonds, meat/fish, bread, honey, salt, and dairy, each day, ugh, and root veg, other veg and fruit. No way am I going to manage that! Not all of them every day at any rate. And besides, it might be that it's the time I eat stuff that makes the difference. Nope, going to have to work out a daily menu and keep to it for a week or at least a few days, then change something and keep to that for a bit and so on. I doubt that I can be disciplined enough, but I have to try it. First though, I need to figure out a daily menu or two. Then I need to make sure I have enough of all the elements to keep to it for the whole week, or maybe that should be the other way round: check the fridge and larder, and go from there. btw thanks, both contrarymary and @boost, I was starting to wonder if it might somehow be placebo effect after all, so it's good to know other people have benefited from the same thing. Reading through previous post on this thread there is at least one link to an article about foods etc that help, including protein, but first hand reports of benefit are somehow much more reassuring!
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Lucie
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Post by Lucie on Apr 2, 2017 17:46:15 GMT
It's really great to read about a high protein diet helping sharper thinking etc. How long have you been doing it for marionk? I started cutting out refined carbs last week and since I decided to put medication on hold (for now), I'm hoping to give 'optimum' low carb nutrition a really good go over the next 6 weeks and see if it makes any improvement at all. The only thing is that after my first week of Elvanse I feel foggier and more lethargic than I have for years . . I hope this improves soon so I can better discern the effects of what I'm eating.
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Post by marionk on Apr 3, 2017 10:10:28 GMT
Hi @lucie,
It's just over 2 months now, but the benefits kicked in in a matter of days. There's more about it in this thread. (That's how I know it's just over 2 months ;P )
You could be developing tolerance where medication stops having the desired effect, or you might even be becoming addicted/dependant on it. "Tolerance is a person's diminished response to a drug, which occurs when the drug is used repeatedly and the body adapts to the continued presence of the drug." Be careful stopping it, and if you feel even worse off it than you did before you started taking it, cut down very slowly.
I have another theory as to why it might have stopped working, but it depends on whether you suffer that 'rebound' or not as to whether it is relevant in your case. I was in the middle of writing a long post on it, when I realised it could simply be tolerance, so started again and wrote this post,but the fact you feel foggier and more lethargic suggests my take on it could be right.
(The word tolerance is often (mis)used on here, to refer to adjusting to the side effects.)
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Lucie
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Post by Lucie on Apr 7, 2017 8:33:37 GMT
Hi @lucie, It's just over 2 months now, but the benefits kicked in in a matter of days. There's more about it in this thread. (That's how I know it's just over 2 months ;P ) You could be developing tolerance where medication stops having the desired effect, or you might even be becoming addicted/dependant on it. "Tolerance is a person's diminished response to a drug, which occurs when the drug is used repeatedly and the body adapts to the continued presence of the drug." Be careful stopping it, and if you feel even worse off it than you did before you started taking it, cut down very slowly. I have another theory as to why it might have stopped working, but it depends on whether you suffer that 'rebound' or not as to whether it is relevant in your case. I was in the middle of writing a long post on it, when I realised it could simply be tolerance, so started again and wrote this post,but the fact you feel foggi er and more lethargic suggests my take on it could be right. (The word tolerance is often (mis)used on here, to refer to adjusting to the side effects.) marionk's, I only tried the Elvanse for a week and it worked really well, though I didn't enjoy the side effects and on balance that combined with learning that the local adult ADHD service only serves out of area patients unless you also have ASD . . and not being in a position to fund ongoing private treatment have led me to put it all on hold until my GP (who is luckily very supportive) tracks down someone with ADHD experience that she can refer me to. Grrr. After that one week with Elvanse I'm still struggling with fog and lethargy but the last days have been a bit better. In the meantime I'm taking the next few months to fully explore a nutritional approach and seeing if that can make a difference
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Post by marionk on May 24, 2017 4:05:26 GMT
So, meal plan . . . I have made some progress, but it's still far from balanced, and involves way more cooking than I am used to: A long time ago, I cut down to one proper cooked course a day, usually the main course of the evening meal, I don't really do desserts, and fresh fruit or tinned fruit and ice cream is no bother if anyone wanted more. Breakfast was cereals, no cooking, lunch was something cold, like sandwiches or salad, but after a while even salads were too much bother. They still are, but I really need to get into the habit for the sake of leafy green veg for vit B1 and natural MAOIs.
More recently (still at least 10 years) I stopped cooking regularly at all, I just didn't have the energy, and would burn stuff far too often. Very recently, in a concerted effort to find a diet that might help with my ADHD, I have worked out a few recipes for things in the microwave, but I've dropped the easiest again, as they are too high in calories to use while I am still over weight. (Almondy porridge and cakes.)
These days I have more energy, but I have such a back log of housework, that I don't like to use it all on cooking, or I will never get the house sorted.
What I am aiming for though is:
Breakfast, lots of eggs, 4 is good, and gives about 22-25g protein. Unfortunately I can't stand boiled, poached or scrambled, and only barely tolerate fried, so it's either souffle omelette, with jam, fruit custards, or eggs with dates. If I cba, protein shake and something with carbs, maybe porridge, biscuits or cereal. 20+ g protein
Doing them savoury would be fine, but I find eggs can actually be yummy sweet, and I can't eat sweet stuff in the evenings or I won't sleep well, so having sweet stuff in the morning forestalls any cravings later in the day, as well as not messing with my sleep.
Elevenses, coffee and protein shake, if I wasn't overweight and could be a***d, this would be the time for a high protein cake - flour substituted with ground almonds of coconut flour. 20+ g protein
Lunch, oily fish or ham, and this is when I should make salad to go with it, but I'll probably just have fruit juice . . . 20+ again
So far this is safely above the lower intake level for my weight (assuming no stress or serious exercise) but my own observations indicate I need more than that; closer to the higher general level (1g/kg), and the latest studies (2008 onwards) indicate even more is needed past 55. At least one article says 1.3-1.8 g per kg of bodyweight!! After reading that I did binge a bit on the protein shakes, and got to over 1.2g/kg one day, and I did feel even better the next day, and while one time is no way a statistically adequate sample, I intend to keep trying to keep my intake at least that high.
So, if I want to get there with proper food, rather than shakes, a meaty evening meal is called for, but that's a lot of cooking in one day for me. It would be a good time to incorporate turmeric and black pepper though, so will try and give it a go tonight. This is the best time for a predominantly veggie dish too, so, if I can manage it a two main course meal would be good. So, for tonight, either aubergines with cheesy sauce and turmeric (traditional recipe) and burgers or sausages Or mincemeat with turmeric and lentils and fried leek and onions. 30g +
Polishing off the day with a protein shake for supper (another 20+) will take me past the lower end of the recommended (by the rest of the world) intake band for my age.
tbh I can't see it having more benefit than the 1.2g seemed to, but I will give it a go!
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Post by marionk on Jun 2, 2017 6:52:51 GMT
Since I started going seriously high protein, I've noticed that not only has my appetite reduced, (that was no surprise), but also my calorie requirements seem to have reduced dramatically . . . d'oh just realised something Starvation mode . . . although I'm not suffering the low metabolism, tired and cold symptoms, I could have somehow triggered the 'efficiency' aspect of it. It would explain how come, when I tot up how much I have eaten, calorie wise, it's really low, yet the scales refuse to budge. I've always put on weight when I actually eat as much as my 'allowance', and even at around 1800 I was more likely to gain than lose. Significantly less though (unfortunately I don't know how much it was) I would lose a few pounds (I presume glycogen store) then go into starvation mode. Now, it seems it's more like 1200 for that break even point. The appetite thing is the weirdest of all though, in one way, I really miss the cakes etc., (I used to regularly wolf down a whole Jamaica Ginger cake, or a packet of almond rounds - and still not put on weight) but I don't really actually want one enough that I can't resist buying/eating them any more. Read more: aadduk.proboards.com/thread/10912/lucys-diary?page=1#ixzz4ipAu6BRS Oops previous post the short menu was only 60g, not 80g, but I've been hitting 80g minimum since then anyway. I just don't get hungry enough to keep it up much higher than that.
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