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Post by Deleted on Sept 16, 2013 17:37:01 GMT
What a load of old tosh!
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Post by JJ on Sept 16, 2013 19:33:54 GMT
What a load of w*nk
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Post by Kathymel on Sept 21, 2013 11:57:13 GMT
Got a reply to my NHS complaint, today.
They have made me an appointment for Nov 6th with the consultant who refused to refer me before (he didn't meet me, just overrode the psychiatrist who did).
Apparently, he IS able to assess for ADHD in adults and they are ' ... not sure how it has been communicated that he is not qualified or is not able to diagnose ADHD in adults.' I guess he failed to mention that he told my private psych that he couldn't do it.
Not holding my breath.
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Post by jan on Sept 21, 2013 12:14:34 GMT
wouldn't put it past him to have just lied - maybe - cos he just didn't want to get involved do you think ? bummer all round anyway
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Post by Kathymel on Sept 21, 2013 12:28:23 GMT
This is what my private psych said in his email about him.
'Dr R**** has indicated that though he sometimes agrees to carry on medication started when young people are diagnosed with ADHD, he is not in the position to make this diagnosis in adults.'
Pretty cut and dried isn't it? Unless he's done some pretty hasty training in the meantime, nothing is going to have changed.
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Post by jan on Sept 21, 2013 12:46:23 GMT
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Post by Kathymel on Sept 21, 2013 12:51:24 GMT
I'm going to grill him on his experience and qualifications before he gets a chance to ask me any questions, that's for sure!
The reply used the same language as the reply I got from the Minister for Health - that their current position is to use local consultants to diagnose ADHD and that they are all qualified. Wankers.
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Post by jan on Sept 21, 2013 12:58:32 GMT
yep prob couldn't even manage that
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Post by JJ on Sept 21, 2013 20:59:07 GMT
FUCKING HELL There's a section on 'what the NHS guidelines mean' first thing on fri or sat at the conference - starts at 9am but I'm gonna get there if it kills me.... Maybe someone there will be able to shed more light on whether he is assumed to be qualified by virtue of his overall position or not.... Tho I think need to consider options carefully before choosing a tac... Michael wrote something here a few days ago about how to approach things - got sidetracked before I could comment etc but he made some very good observations and comments (I'm so crap, I can't remember what he said, where he said it, or who he was saying it too ) but hopefully he'll have a better idea than me and can point you The thing you do have going for you is a comprehensive, strong, well reasoned, referenced and evidenced case - and to conclude you don't meet the diagnostic criteria will necessitate a thorough explanation - to someone who's already shown herself willing and able to pursue the matter further.... OMG.... What a nightmare
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Post by Kathymel on Sept 21, 2013 22:00:34 GMT
Love that reaction. Yep. Will have to massively over-compensate for time by getting up much earlier than necessary to get there on time for the lecture. I wonder if they allow you to record them? The guy who wrote the reply has asked me to ring him, so I'm going to arm myself with the reply from the minister re expecting all health boards to take full account of the guidelines, the quote from my private psych about the NHS guy saying he's unable to diagnose and the guidelines themselves and give him what for. All I've got to do now is not forget to call ...
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Post by Deleted on Sept 22, 2013 3:04:57 GMT
Seems fairly explicit to me She mentions 'clinical need' (one of the three core principles of the NHS it seems. I wonder if she salutes a portrait of Aneurin Bevan every morning?) - what is she implying here? 'broadly expected' she later says. This is as good as agreeing with you that there is a lack of provision. What counter measures have they taken in these cases? FIA request for all psychs under your CCG that have received "training in the diagnosis and treatment of ADHD in adults, who do not have a childhood diagnosis of ADHD, up to 21/09/2013" for the lols? Another request for all out of area ADHD referrals? Another for all present, past and planned for all GP/psych shared care agreements? Broadly expected could also applies to: ...which I'm guessing doesn't apply to you. I just looked over your other letter too - I realise this is prolly dead in the water now but: "Private prescribers can obtain this registration via what used to be the local Primary Care Trusts. However, PCTs were abolished earlier this year by the current government, and this duty has transferred to the new Clinical Commisioning Groups who I have been in touch with, but the registration process would appear to be quite a lenghty process, and I am not able to say when I might be in the position to prescribe." www.nhsbsa.nhs.uk/PrescriptionServices/Documents/PrescriptionServices/ODT_New_Private_CD_prescriber.docIs that even one page? Also, who is going to do shared care with someone who can't prescribe themselves? That's like me taking parenting advice off someone without kids. NEVER GOING TO HAPPEN
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Post by Deleted on Sept 22, 2013 3:07:48 GMT
Michael wrote something here a few days ago I think I know the post you're referring to; I think I may have deleted it. It seemed too preachy and assumptive when I read it a few hours later which is a shame coz it took me ages to write the cunt!
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Post by Kathymel on Sept 22, 2013 9:59:04 GMT
The private psych hasn't responded to my last couple of emails, Michael. I get the feeling he would rather wash his hands of me. I would be writing a letter of complaint to the RCP if I could get my arse in gear for it.
I wasn't sure what 'treatment should be delivered according to clinical need' even meant if it didn't mean, 'If someone needs treatment, they should be treated.'
I hadn't even thought about FOI requests. Now that would be interesting ...
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Post by jan on Sept 22, 2013 10:09:42 GMT
god you lot function on such a higher level than me not sure you all gonna appreciate my company that much
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Post by Kathymel on Sept 22, 2013 10:33:12 GMT
god you lot function on such a higher level than me not sure you all gonna appreciate my company that much We'll have less of that sort of talk, young lady! I already know I enjoy your company. OK. So, what else might I ask? So far I've got: How many Adults who did not have a diagnosis of ADHD in childhood have been diagnosed and treated within the CCG in the past 5 years? How many adults have been referred to out-of-area, specialist Adult ADHD services in the past 5 years? How many psychiatrists within the CCG have received specialist training in the diagnosis of ADHD within adults who do not have a childhood diagnosis of ADHD? How many GP/psychiatrist shared care agreements for sufferers of ADHD diagnosed as adults have been in place in the past 5 years? How does that sound?
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Post by meepmeep on Sept 22, 2013 20:58:34 GMT
Good god, I read your thread and almost shrivel up thinking is it even worth chasing these people for a diagnosis of ADHD...
This really sounds frustrating, and to be completely honest I don't think I'd have the will to fight this much, kudos to you, I raise my top hat.
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Post by JJ on Sept 22, 2013 21:12:20 GMT
I'm not firing on all cylinders this evening cos have slept all day (and technically into the evening) and have that horrible 'missed a whole day and not in sync with the world' feeling... So can't think properly but saw this on the NICE Quality Standard 39, which was only published in July this year. It says And further down it defines its terminology: So the fact that Dr Arsehole is a psychiatrist doesn't automatically mean he's qualified to assess and diagnose you
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Post by Kathymel on Sept 22, 2013 21:15:09 GMT
Good god, I read your thread and almost shrivel up thinking is it even worth chasing these people for a diagnosis of ADHD... This really sounds frustrating, and to be completely honest I don't think I'd have the will to fight this much, kudos to you, I raise my top hat. Thanks, Meep. I think I'd probably shrivel up if I read the whole thing again. No idea if I'll ever get to the end of this, but too bloody minded to stop now.
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Post by JJ on Sept 22, 2013 21:17:17 GMT
Re yr FOA requests - I've not taken in what you've suggested but I've read about this stuff recently and there are rules about what you can and can't ask for
I might have it a bit wrong cos not looked it up before posting but they can refuse to answer if it would take longer than 24 hours (or something, can't remember) to find out the info - therefore you should submit your requests individually and not as a bulk
Xxx
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Post by Kathymel on Sept 22, 2013 21:17:41 GMT
And further down it defines its terminology: So the fact that Dr Arsehole is a psychiatrist doesn't automatically mean he's qualified to assess and diagnose you And JJ does it again!!! Thank you for that.
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Post by Kathymel on Sept 22, 2013 21:19:53 GMT
Re yr FOA requests - I've not taken in what you've suggested but I've read about this stuff recently and there are rules about what you can and can't ask for I might have it a bit wrong cos not looked it up before posting but they can refuse to answer if it would take longer than 24 hours (or something, can't remember) to find out the info - therefore you should submit your requests individually and not as a bulk Xxx Thanks for that too, JJ. I'll look it up before I send any requests. You're worth your weight in gold. xXx
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Post by JJ on Sept 22, 2013 21:23:08 GMT
Lol! The amount I've been eating since the SAD kicked in means that could be A LOT of money!!!
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Post by inca on Sept 22, 2013 22:34:52 GMT
Hi. Just kind of sticking my nose in here and may be way off track, but would there be any use arguing that since you paid the private psych and he didn't provide an adequate service, then you should be entitled to a refund? I can't imagine a plumber for example getting away with saying 'well, i think your pipe may have a leak, but i can only find out if i use a special sealant, which i can't get and nobody else Will either!'. Can you report this guy to trading standards, as surely everyone being paid for a service should provide that service, and doesn't seem like he has done what you paid him to do - even if that is only to give you a definitive decision one way or the other and stick by that decision.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 22, 2013 23:13:34 GMT
I suppose it could be argued there's no point burning that bridge until the cavalry has arrived. He's in your debt and he knows it. Could prove useful somewhere... ongoing CCG battle somehow.
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Post by Kathymel on Sept 23, 2013 0:14:25 GMT
I have thought about complaining about him.
I'd have to have one final go at trying to get him to answer my questions and let him know that I will be complaining if he doesn't comply, which is what I'm sort of getting stuck on.
I don't think he would consider himself to be in my debt, Michael. He probably just thinks he gave me a cheap consult and I shouldn't expect too much. Who knows what he's thinking ...
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Post by Deleted on Sept 23, 2013 0:18:26 GMT
Perhaps there's grounds to get him sectioned? Doesn't sound like he's all there to me?
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Post by JJ on Sept 23, 2013 0:29:25 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Sept 23, 2013 0:49:22 GMT
I have thought about complaining about him. I'd have to have one final go at trying to get him to answer my questions and let him know that I will be complaining if he doesn't comply, which is what I'm sort of getting stuck on. I don't think he would consider himself to be in my debt, Michael. If he doesn't, he should. I suppose the question is, what was agreed? Did he agree to 'hear your thoughts' or to offer a professional assessment of whether you do or do not, have ADHD? I think everyone is assuming the latter here He didn't say yes. He didn't say no. He said maybe. Maybe doesn't mean shit. Am I pregnant? Maybe! Is this bomb going to explode in my face? Maybe! From a business perspective he simply hasn't delivered and he absolutely knows it. He is skirting the boundaries of liability like everyone else - because we let them. Nobody can afford to have a bad word said about them in business, especially a niche startup operating in mental health. Even if he sent you something to sign, which negates him of any possibly wrong doing under contract law, he will still have a conscience and he will still value his reputation. Is this, possibly, what YOU think? I think we all think this, I think. YOU GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR, y0! It's engrained into us by the elders and there is truth in it, obviously but it may be possible to glean something from it. Like you, I might be tempted to write off that money and call myself a twat. Perhaps it's not possible to take this any further with this guy because he's just a good natured guy who is a bit of a bumbling idiot. My thinking is, there's nothing to lose by saying, 'I haven't really had value for money here, have I...?' to him and putting the ball back in his court. He already knows you haven't though because he offered to send pointless letters to your uni, etc. Some people lap this shit up and he knows it. If the time comes in a few weeks where you could use the word of someone other than yourself to backup/verify something, he *might* just come in handy and you might see *some* return on that money. MAYBE! Failing that, it's refund/chargeback time. I seem to have gone off on one again, soz!!
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Post by Kathymel on Sept 23, 2013 2:00:09 GMT
Lots of good points there, Michael. I've hunted back through my emails and found the original agreement.
I have discussed your position with Dr G and he has agreed that in return for you agreeing to join our forum and provide us with feedback and involvement in the development of our service, including, (subject to further discussion), acting as an advocate for the service to GP s and the media, he will give you a 50% discount on the cost of his assessment.
the following email stated.
Our website payment portal is now up and running. Please pay us £100 which will give you up to an hour with Dr G - half the normal cost. If he needs to get you to do any tests or return for a second appointment he will set that out - and give you figures for what that will cost you - in the letter he will send to your GP. Do fill in as much detail as you can in the space provided in the form you will be asked to fill in - to give him as much as a feel for the case as possible.
At the end of the assessment, I came away thinking he had agreed that I had ADHD, though I can't remember the wording he used.
After the assessment I asked what they would like me to do to fulfill my side of the deal, but got no response.
The rest you know.
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Post by jan on Sept 23, 2013 7:43:59 GMT
Or I could ready the troops - on alert ( - FW is awol )
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