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Post by computermandan on Oct 16, 2013 9:45:19 GMT
I've got 28 days (23 left) on these for an attempt to iron out the sleep pattern issues. just a little concerned about getting to work. I'm barely awake when I walk out the door... I'm moody as hell and it's not helping at home. I want to give them a chance to work but I don't want to carry on with an acid test to treat sleep deprivation when I'm not sure sleep is the problem??? am i wrong for thinking of it that way round? feel like I just want to close my eyes and shut off from everything until it goes away and it's quiet again.
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Post by computermandan on Oct 16, 2013 9:46:43 GMT
yup sorry i didnt repeat that it is the mirtazapiine but a low 15mg dose. I do feel like whats the point.
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Post by jan on Oct 16, 2013 9:59:10 GMT
maybe try and get to speak to him on the phone - if your feeling conflicted about it personally - when comes to meds i go with my gut reaction (no pun intended )
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Post by Deleted on Oct 16, 2013 11:49:27 GMT
Prescribing an anti-depressant for sleep problems without identifying the underlying cause is dodgy IMHO. I agree with what contrarymary said about this on page 1 of this thread.
I've been px ADs for sleep problems in the past and they always made me feel worse. If the side effects are worse than the problem I just don't bother persisting with a med (but that's just me).
I'm on Sertraline - although it's an SSRI, I had similar side effects to you initially, felt permanently sleepy and zombie-like for about 3 weeks. I only persisted with taking it because I was so depressed and anxious, I was willing to see if it was worth it.
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Post by computermandan on Oct 16, 2013 14:17:20 GMT
Waiting on a call back from Dr Gopi now... eventually got through to the place I had appointment. couldn't remember doctors name almost dozed off on hold. I've already been picked up on today at work for muttering nonsense to myself about what I'm thinking. Feel a bit day-dreamy now. I hope he calls back soon. have decided I want to stop this as it's making me feel worse with no gain at all. If I have to rule out sleep pattern as a cause I will force myself in and out of bed if i have to be dragged so be it. stopped drinking coffee at work and home (granted replaced by good old tea - but it's not as bad is it??). So I'm sure I can do something. Saying that - cant' remember who, but someone mentioned if I didn't sleep as a child then what good will it do? TO be honest I'm tired because I stay up at night because that's when I get clarity and I can do paperwork or fix that backup problem that's hassled me all day and made no progress with. That's why I'm tired. Late evening it's QUIET because there's no interruptions and things in the way. it's if I gotobed EARLY that I lay staring at ceiling thinking gazillions of thoughts. because if I'm in bed EVERYONE else is too and it's quiet still. then I can't getup because it's late. i think im muttering again.. boss in meeting so quiet here... anyway do i TELL the doc I'm stopping or ask what he thinks about it? don't like decisions, getting grrr about it inside again now
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Post by jan on Oct 16, 2013 14:31:04 GMT
up to you - but if was me i would TELL him - can't function so have to stop taking it life hard enough - without being impeded even more by a medication you don't even think you need ie your not depressed !! am i right ? course have to stroke their egos in way that you put it
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Post by contrarymary on Oct 16, 2013 14:35:51 GMT
hey dan
it's a real bummer. and a quandary.
i did a small google and see that mirtazipine is well-known for having side-effects of somnolence (excessive sleepiness?) esp in the early days of taking it. for many people those side-effects wear off after a week or so, for others they never wear off and they end up having to stop it because of the feeling of sleepwalking through life and not being in control of their behaviour.
in fact, for many people with depression they find it doesn't help their depression per se but helps their sleep, and then they end up taking "another" anti-depressant to treat the depression! in any case, mirtazipine's anti-dep effectiveness takes some weeks to build up and it's one of those meds you are not supposed to stop taking suddenly. but you prob know all that.
imo the trouble with doctors is they will think they have heard it all before and may not have a clear idea of how bad the effects are on you/your life unless you are really clear, which is a hard thing to do when: a) you have all the symptoms of adhd inc procrastination and indecisiveness; and b) you are feeling shit because of taking this drug.
?mebbe spend 10 mins making a list of bullet points of impact of drug on you/your life in the last week? how you have felt physically, mentally, what you have/have not been able to do? impact on family life/home life/work life...
i think you had a good appt with GP before you were referred to this psych? might be worth asking his/her advice (sorry i never remember doctors' genders!!) maybe gp could be your back up if still not happy after this tel con?
i have a v gd gp who i trust, and would always chat through this type of issue with him and get his opinion / advice on the basis that he actually knows me and can help to filter/explain what specialists might be getting at, and isn't afraid to disagree with them when he thinks they're wrong or haven't made an argument clearly enough. and can often debunk potential god-complexes.
good luck dan!!
contrary m x
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Post by contrarymary on Oct 16, 2013 14:42:06 GMT
ps if it was having a significantly bad effect on me i would TELL him i was stopping it and why, and then mebbe try to write down how crap i was feeling to explain why i was stopping. and what it felt like when i stopped taking it as my sanity came back...
he hasn't given you a good enough reason to feel like this...
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Post by computermandan on Oct 16, 2013 15:00:19 GMT
Thanks Mary and Jan... making a list now... good at lists. just talked it through with a colleague and he's of the same thinking. if you're not benefiting and there's that many downsides right now and you still think it won't help anyway... stop now rather than wait and have to spend some time coming off the meds. It's only been 5 days so hopefully can just stop. its a low dosage so I'm hoping. I've been reading the good and bad stories on it too - seems a real mixed bag but I know I am not depressed. I have been previously - if anything the meds are bringing those feelings on. I am frustrated at not succeeding, and at forgetting, and at not being able to beat the things i know and have identified as my stumbling blocks. to me that's not really depression or stress... maybe it brings a little anxiety and stress but as a bi-product. I can see the way out of money and life issues - I can see that light if you like, but not getting any of the million milestones done because you put them off because you forget they exist as you flit from uneventful task to another is the issue. The other symptoms were always there (distracted when talking and listening to people for example) but I always thought they were just silly old me. sorry rant-y sidetrack. I'm going to TELL the doc. (if he calls ?) and I'm going to say theyre making me feel worse. and I would like to discuss things again as I don't feel I have said any of the above because I thought i'd remember things but I didnt and I always do that. hopefully I get another appt in the not too distant future and I WILL prepare - i didnt partly last time because i feel slightly embarrased by myself and this is partly due to family opinion that I'm trying too hard to be DX when maybe ADHD isn't the problem and oh dear tears better stop looks silly in the office.
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Post by contrarymary on Oct 16, 2013 15:09:03 GMT
i wonder how much better you will feel when you have had the phone conversation and how much better you will feel this time tomorrow and how much better again you will feel this time next week
i wonder how much you will remember of these feelings this time next year
which is a bloody long way of saying - this will pass. we are such creatures of Now that we cannot imagine it, but it will.
If you could imagine the You of a a year or two down the line, writing an email to the You right now, what would Future You say? mebbe something along the lines of - hang in there mate, it gets better really soon. just get thru this bit now and you'll see.
the best is yet to come.
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Post by computermandan on Oct 16, 2013 15:23:52 GMT
ok so from last post went on to read Mary's link from earlier about asperger's - as i didnt read it properly before... I DO now think and see where the Doc was getting Aspergers links/symptoms from the DX list in the link but nothing that's impaired me as such. embarassed slightly but not impaired. (mostly social, conversation impulsiveness, emotional expressiveness or lack of etc) The ADHD symptoms are clearer and there are more of them and they have always been there and they are causing work and home issues. I really need to list it all out properly. thanks for listening to my nonsense.
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Post by computermandan on Oct 16, 2013 15:25:18 GMT
Thanks Mary just read your last post. I'm smiling now if that answers those questions that weren't looking for an answer. thanks again
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Post by JJ on Oct 16, 2013 16:12:43 GMT
Hi dan,
I think you should tell dr that you can't function on these tablets. If they want to look at your sleep problems then they'll have to prescribe you something else that doesn't leave you drowsy.
However, I would also say that the Nice guidelines and their recent quality standard (QS 39) say that if an adult presents with the symptoms of adhd, which have been present from childhood, they should be referred to a specialist for assessment. Your man has already agreed you show the signs, so it's not in his remit now and she should just refer you rather than fannying around with anti-d's.
Also it's in the nice guidelines that can have inattentive without hyperactive/impulsive. (Tho you said in your post that he was on about you blurting things out socially - which is impulsive behaviour of course)
Also re the 'you got through school thing' - Student Finance (which deals with student loans ) also administers the Disabled Students Allowance. In their info on this, they specifically mention adhd - which would be pointless if no one ever got through school anyway. Also, one of the leading academics on Adhd is Professor Russell Barkley (one of the adhd tests they do at the maudsley is the Barkley Scale) - he has adhd (as did his brother) - so unless someone just gave him a professorship and indulged him by using his scale, he must have got through school too.
This kind of crap really makes me angry - I really feel for you xx
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Post by contrarymary on Oct 16, 2013 18:23:31 GMT
computermandani came across this and wondered if something in this might be helpful for you at the mo. wired, tired and sleep-deprived from today's additude magazine www.additudemag.com/slideshow/6/slide-1.html?utm_source=eletter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Octoberit's basic stuff you might have come up with yourself rather than rocket science (or perhaps indeed, science) but i always work on the basis that our ears are on the outside, which is why we sometimes hear things better when they come from other people.... hope your tel con went better than you thought... tomorrow is another day (and shit!! i have my gp appt on friday and i've done f all to prep myself and i am now going to scream with frustration and panic cos i also have my conference on saturday and i've got stuff to do for that. i wondered what it was i was supposed to be doing and why i had so much time to google stuff. buuuuuuuummmmmmmmms. but hey, i've got a good haircut. or i might have when the rained-frizzed-effect has worn off. bums bums bums. need help. i will start a thread rather than derail yours. )
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Post by jan on Oct 16, 2013 18:35:50 GMT
did he ring dan ? hope so - have spent so much time waiting for people like that to ring - and they havn't and then when have got around to ringing them they totally blank and forgotten me
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Post by computermandan on Oct 17, 2013 14:41:48 GMT
Well - today has been good so far... felt much better. I did take the meds last night but either I had something else going on or I've got used to them... stopping my massive office coffee intake probably didn't help.
Doc called today Jan - at lunchtime in the end - but because I feel better I've held off cancelling it all to give it a bit longer. To be honest it will keep my OH on side as I think I've come across as someone on a mission to prove doctors wrong lately. He said try taking earlier but I'd already been doing that.
Had a look at the article Mary - I think I might invest in a white noise machine for bed and setup a full on routine. I may go back into taking lunch to see the sun once in a while and get better at walking the dog first thing in the morning.. (hang on I've been here before! lol)
I always read things like this then think yay great ideas to get ontrack... then I look back a year later and wonder why I didn't do it lol.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 18, 2013 0:57:31 GMT
The things we do to placate NTs With a bit of luck, it'll work some magic for you too
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Post by Deleted on Oct 18, 2013 1:08:34 GMT
I always read things like this then think yay great ideas to get ontrack... then I look back a year later and wonder why I didn't do it lol. Only look back later in the year? .. I do this at the end of most weeks!
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Post by jan on Oct 18, 2013 7:19:05 GMT
Well - today has been good so far... felt much better. I did take the meds last night but either I had something else going on or I've got used to them... Had a look at the article Mary - I think I might invest in a white noise machine for bed and setup a full on routine. I may go back into taking lunch to see the sun once in a while and get better at walking the dog first thing in the morning.. (hang on I've been here before! lol) good to hear your on the up dan (just for today and all that ) havn't noticed CM'S post but i got a dawn simulator clock from www.lumie.com at begining of year and its had an amazing effect on regulating my sleep. it has sunrise and sunset settings - and white noise and waves option to fall asleep to - they sometimes have reconditioned ones and they are much cheaper (mine was £30 off) and you can have it on 30 day trial. at the conference on first night i set it wrong and volume didn't decrease and when i was snoozing away happily it kept the others awake
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Post by computermandan on Oct 18, 2013 13:43:09 GMT
Feeling good today too - getting lots done... this is the me I'm used to though - not the tired stressed out one of the last year or so... still scatty and all over the shop, but get more things finished in a haphazard kind of way. @ Petra re: looking back over the year... I don't have time to look anywhere most times. up, to work, back, kids bedtimes, eat/chillout, sleep... when I do I can't decide what then end up doing more "nothing". will look up that clock thingy sounds cool. thanks
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Post by Kathymel on Oct 18, 2013 23:36:39 GMT
but get more things finished in a haphazard kind of way. Haphazard or not, a thing finished deserves a pat on the back. Finished things are things of beauty. Hmmm ... waxing lyrical ... maybe time for bed!
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Post by computermandan on Oct 24, 2013 10:46:51 GMT
Well... got home to a written report from psychiatrist to GP - made interesting reading.
Think the psychiatrist has memory trouble too because he thinks I've been married 12 years not 10. in any case reading back what he "thought" was interesting - very much pushing me down the STRESS / ANXIETY route by the looks of things.
and either I didn't remember or i wasn't told that I'm going back in 6 weeks. (but med precription finishes in 4?)
the NHS is great.
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Post by computermandan on Nov 8, 2013 11:07:19 GMT
In between re-reading the report, noticing I have another appointment and forgetting to take medicine and then feeling better NOT taking it so giving up anyway...
I am up and down and all over the place all over again...
Not been looking on here much recently due to work pressure and OH seemingly having some kind of breakdown herself so lots to deal with and try to keep the titanic afloat a bit longer. Have decided to keep mouth shut at home about ADHD as it's not helping at the moment.
So I've gone from discussing the whole thing with anybody who will listen to not saying a word.
Finding it hard day to day at the minute but determined not to fall into depressive state... too deep at least. to be honest I might be there already.
so yeah stopped the meds because
a. I forgot to take them and b. they made me feel disconnected like I was awake but my head wasn't.
and here comes Christmas... the time I run out of cash and get nagged for not helping choose presents and not talking about them and general forgetfulness all round. I must try to keep on top of things.....
please excuse mumbling. perhaps this should've gone in the vent section lol
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Post by Kathymel on Nov 8, 2013 16:46:12 GMT
You can vent where you like, mate. Sounds like life is being waaay too unkind right now. I hope it settles down again. Christmas is horrible for trying to organise things. I always feel like a killjoy cos I find it hard to get into the spirit. Putting up decorations and spending a fortune - not my idea of fun, these days. Wish it was, though. I envy people who love it. I just love being with my family and the eating bit. And Baileys. When's your next appointment?
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Post by computermandan on Nov 11, 2013 13:49:24 GMT
I have another appointment on the 28th but looks like I need to rearrange it because I can't get out of work. I even remembered to call the clinic to change it but was told they would call back to sort it out... (yup still waiting).
I used to love Christmas... when everyone else did all the sorting out.
and is it just me or do Christmas cards serve no real purpose whatsoever? I hate card shopping so much I pick the first one that's got the right relative name (i.e mum & dad) and isn't too expensive then I'm off.
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Post by computermandan on Dec 9, 2013 13:24:50 GMT
Right... after appointment got cancelled instead of being changed I got a new one... Round two with General psych tomorrow at 2pm or something like that. (must write it down).
so this evening is going to be prep time to nail down what I'm trying to say rather than say what i think im saying but actually saying something different...
I also need to apply for a job that I'd really like to go for that I've known about for weeks and haven't revisited yet. closing date for apps is tomorrow...
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Post by Deleted on Dec 9, 2013 14:29:18 GMT
Right... after appointment got cancelled instead of being changed I got a new one... Round two with General psych tomorrow at 2pm or something like that. (must write it down). so this evening is going to be prep time to nail down what I'm trying to say rather than say what i think im saying but actually saying something different... I also need to apply for a job that I'd really like to go for that I've known about for weeks and haven't revisited yet. closing date for apps is tomorrow... Good luck on both fronts. Will be thinking about you.....if I remember that is Sent from my GT-I9505 using proboards
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Post by contrarymary on Dec 9, 2013 18:22:06 GMT
Right... after appointment got cancelled instead of being changed I got a new one... Round two with General psych tomorrow at 2pm or something like that. (must write it down). so this evening is going to be prep time to nail down what I'm trying to say rather than say what i think im saying but actually saying something different... I also need to apply for a job that I'd really like to go for that I've known about for weeks and haven't revisited yet. closing date for apps is tomorrow... fingers crossed, little bro hope it all goes as well as well can be. well, well enough anyway. and prep time not too painful. get that bloody application done. bullet points if necessary... just get it in - gotta be in it to win it.. contrarym x
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Post by computermandan on Dec 10, 2013 11:12:23 GMT
oh I'm SO not ready... 3 hours sleep. at work with a pile of blah to do - 8 weeks behind on timesheet, finance director smiling over my shoulder.
I got the application half done... seems midnight on the 10th is tonight not this morning unless their website is messed up.
Thanks for the support peeps. think bullet points before appt might be necessary now lol
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Post by computermandan on Dec 11, 2013 0:03:49 GMT
so last minute prep.. I know I said what i needed - he still talked me round... odd thing is I'm kind of agreeing with him.
my "symptoms" have become prominent because of the stresses in my life recently.
I am anxious about the issues I've been having but remain adamant any depression is a side effect not the main issue.
Whilst he agreed that there are signs of ADHD he doesn't think the negative impact is enough to warrant meds and so referral (he didnt outright say that but it was kind of inferred)
so onto less drowsy anxiety tackling meds... Citalopram for 28 days. I have no idea what this will have in store. he mentioned trying beta blockers as a next step - I'm in the dark as to what they do - cue hyperfocus for the rest of the week.
maybe i need to accept i do not have ADHD ? maybe I am just a bit lazy, forgetful and distracted... I discussed the appt with my wife and she unfortunately is of that thinking already and whilst apologetic realises she is unsupportive in my "hunt for an excuse".
ho hum...
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